Can we finally get some balance for Covenants?

[banadona]

Sigh...I wish I would not be forced to go Kyrian on every Tank toon I have except Druid for the freaking Phial.

Last week I switched back from Kyrian to Necrolord on my Brewmaster monk just to wrap up the campaign. I learned the hard way that there is an actual additional CD in place before you can take the quest to rejoin previous covenant outside of the two reset rule for the two quests but that is yet another topic.

I tried doing M+ with my group this week and I know that Necrotic is generally awful and was a pain to play around being a tank even before SL but for tanks that are not Kyrian it seems almost crazy.

I may not be the best but with Kyrian covenant I am doing 14s for weekly and 12-13s regularly. Yesterday, we tried doing Theatre of Pain 14. Died multiple times up to the 1st boss and on the 1st boss because I could not clear stacks. Tried doing 13, boss stacks Necrotic so high I can't survive and I tried kiting and shit. Maybe I had a case of dementia yesterday or maybe I was particularly bad at the game but having one covenant actually miles easier to do dungeons with from the other 3 with one of those 3 not even considered by most of the classes that tank is ridiculous!

Can we get some kind of balance patch between covenants for crying out loud!? Even outside Necrotic, Kyrians are so much better for tanks that you have to consciously handicap yourself to play anything else! Player's choice my ass!

I realize this post has probably been put out before but after what happened yesterday I kind of need to say it out loud, it's so frustrating.

Every time Blizzard is told by the testers that something like locking player power behind a choice that is semi-permanent is a bad idea and every time (just like with Azerite armor) they choose not to listen and lo and behold, most classes went with what sims best and 75% of tanks from all classes went Kyrian mainly for the phial. This is absurd. And now instead of fixing it asap they will wait another 2 months before they decide to do anything about it just like the last time if they even admit making a mistake at all.

It's so freaking idiotic I am lost for words.

[intenz]

They should just let us swap freely between covenants, keeping renown/anima/souls etc. Because they clearly don't have the will or skill to balance them. I know that NF is a major advantage in M+ and pvp for me but I would rather unsub than switch because I can't bear the fact that I have to do the entire quest chain.

[mojusk]

devs be like

[rrayy]

They should just let us swap freely between covenants, keeping renown/anima/souls etc. Because they clearly don't have the will or skill to balance them.

NO. People need to have to live with their choice and the consequences that comes with it. People should never be handed everything.

[Hellobolis]

be careful what you wish for, knowing blizz they'll just nerf the phial into the ground.

[rayvio]

well they've been working on class, faction and racial balances for sixteen years now and have never yet had a time when any of them were really accepted as balanced by the playerbase. I'm sure covenants will be balanced aaaany day now

[TickTickTick]

NO. People need to have to live with their choice and the consequences that comes with it. People should never be handed everything.

It's a game dude. If you want cOnSeQuEnCeS, leave your room and participate in real life.

Intenz is right. Covenants are a fine concept, as long as they can properly balance it, and well they can't. Not like it comes as any surprise really, we have years of experience when it comes to Blizzard missing the mark.

You must be delusional to think that creating a system that punishes you, in a game that's supposed to be entertainment, for which you have to pay to be able to play, is a fine concept. Like wtf dude.

[Azerate]

What you seem to be missing OP, is that balanced doesn't equal everything being the same. The covenants are balanced. It's just that some of them have slightly better performance for certain things, which is more than fine. If you want to maximize a certain aspect of your character, use the relevant covenant. If you don't care about minmaxing, no one forces you.

[Xath]

NO. People need to have to live with their choice and the consequences that comes with it. People should never be handed everything.

It's a glorified talent row just stop

[nonameelf]

Blizzard sucks at balancing things. If they tried to balance them they'd likely just smash the current meta for it and then everyone who wanted to keep up would have to switch covenants and start all over again getting renown and unlocking soulbinds.

Tying player power behind a semi-permanent choice was a fucking awful decision to begin with.

[Alubobz]

If a 3 min cooldown "potion" is what prevents you from doing well then i think their are other bigger issues.

If tank is dying and its not due to your playing then the healer is not healing well enough or the DPS is lacking...real tanks blame everyone else!

Too many people these days worry about min/maxing, its really only for the people who like other people watching them play and win money for it

[rrayy]

It's a game dude. If you want cOnSeQuEnCeS, leave your room and participate in real life.

Intenz is right. Covenants are a fine concept, as long as they can properly balance it, and well they can't. Not like it comes as any surprise really, we have years of experience when it comes to Blizzard missing the mark.

You must be delusional to think that creating a system that punishes you, in a game that's supposed to be entertainment, for which you have to pay to be able to play, is a fine concept. Like wtf dude.

LOL the game is in no way punishing you. You can complete all content regardless of what covenant you have. You call anything "punishment" that doesn't allow you to top the meters. Choice is what enhances games. To have choice you need to have consequences for choice. It is funny you talk about real life because I would love to see you try to use your entitlement attitude in the real world and tell everyone to give you whatever you want. I would love to see how far you get.

Player entitlement like yours is why the game is such a sorry state.

- - - Updated - - -

What you seem to be missing OP, is that balanced doesn't equal everything being the same. The covenants are balanced. It's just that some of them have slightly better performance for certain things, which is more than fine. If you want to maximize a certain aspect of your character, use the relevant covenant. If you don't care about minmaxing, no one forces you.

Exactly. Everything is a player problem not a game problem whic is created by players incessant need to be at the top of the meters and believing that is the only way you can play the game is via God mode. They aren't willing to understand that you do not have to top the meters to complete all content nor do have to be at the best you can possibly be to complete content either.

[Kumorii]

Big balance changes for Covenants will happen between seasons most likely.

[mbit]

I think they fear changing meta with covenants. What would happen? Salt mines will open and everyone will complain about having to max another covenant.

[Alkizon]

NO. People need to have to live with their choice and the consequences that comes with it. People should never be handed everything.

I would agree, but problem here is more like case described by Bruce Willis' hero here Therefore, it's still worth complain about progress' design and non-observance of class systems' hierarchy in first place, which is devs' work, and which makes no sense to blame players for. So...

Still would've been better as a talent row.

They'll never be balanced. You can't balance a giga AoE nuke like Spear of Bastion against a huge ST buff like Condemn without nerfing both to the point of irrelevance. They were MUCH more powerful abilities/conduits on the alpha/beta, but the difference between different abilities in different situations was so big they had to tone it down to what they have today.

Is that difference still too big? Eh, I don't think so. Nerf them any more & to be honest what's the point in having them.

is much more valid point.

BUt things do work.

No they don't (last link invalidates "choice" argument), otherwise, such topics won't make sense. Simple.

[Tojara]

Covenants arguably are one of the things they got the most right. Is it perfect? No. While some might argue that every single one of them should be perfectly balanced, there are still plenty of classes where there are two or more of them that you can pick without feeling gimped (DK is one of these classes). The only issue that arises (in my mind) is when one covenant is just universally better for one class, and the others are really bad (and no, druids can absolutely go more than just Night Fae).

If you can't handle dungeons without phials to clear necrotic, I don't know what to tell you. You can bring a paladin that week, or you can have your group work with you to help you kite better. If bosses are causing you problem it's as simple as communicating with somebody in your group with taunt to taunt the boss from range when you have low duration on stacks, in an effort to ping pong it back and forth. All of these 'strategies' are pretty useful tactics for playing around necrotic and have been used for expansions now to deal with the affix. If you don't have any of those things to work with, it's a "you" problem and you either need to play better, or change your group up to deal with the affixes. It's like people whining that their static in dungeons doesn't have access to enrage dispel during enrage week, and wondering why dungeons are brutally hard that week. Tools exist to help with necrotic, and if you choose to approach them assuming necrotic doesn't exist, that's your fault. At the end of the day even if you're kyrian the vial is a 3 minute CD, and if you still try to play like an idiot during necrotic you're still going to get owned.

All of that said legendary and covenant balance are things they're unlikely to change until a new patch cycle and it's simply because of the investment put into them. The outcry from changing them in the middle of the patch (especially if people have already swapped) would be enormous, whereas giving people a heads up into a "soft reset" (patch) isn't as big of a deal.

[Toybox]

Still would've been better as a talent row.

They'll never be balanced. You can't balance a giga AoE nuke like Spear of Bastion against a huge ST buff like Condemn without nerfing both to the point of irrelevance. They were MUCH more powerful abilities/conduits on the alpha/beta, but the difference between different abilities in different situations was so big they had to tone it down to what they have today.

Is that difference still too big? Eh, I don't think so. Nerf them any more & to be honest what's the point in having them.

[evertonbelmontt]

The thing that NEEDS to happen is lower the venthyr teleport to 0.5 seg or AT BEST 1 sec, 1.5 sec is absurdly bad.

I'd go back to venthyr if the teleport was 0.5. Not going back for a 1 sec teleport because of PVP, but 0.5 as a warlock is doable. (If you get locked in it you can't even use defensives).

[rrayy]

I would agree, but problem here is more like case described by Bruce Willis' hero here Therefore, it's still worth complain about progress' design and non-observance of class systems' hierarchy in first place, which is devs' work, and which makes no sense to blame players for.

BUt things do work. The convenants in no way prevent you from playing the game AT ALL. Therefore, it's a player problem, not a game problem. Players need to stop with the obsession that they need everything and have to top the meters to play the game. Player entitlement is at the root of all these issues, not the game design.

[Toybox]

The thing that NEEDS to happen is lower the venthyr teleport to 0.5 seg or AT BEST 1 sec, 1.5 sec is absurdly bad.

I'd go back to venthyr if the teleport was 0.5. Not going back for a 1 sec teleport because of PVP, but 0.5 as a warlock is doable. (If you get locked in it you can't even use defensives).

I always have fun trying to chase a healer with teleport & trying to fake cast the DPS with it Would be faster just running lol.