Do you think the Alliance and the Horde can ever forgive each other for past crimes?

[Aresk]

Conspiracy theories aside, I don't see how stating facts is creating an echo chamber. Unless you believe in alternative facts, case in which, flatearth away.

It's only a fact if it's true. Considering Genn was punished by Anduin, your claim is false. You can say he wasn't punished enough, and you can propose a different, more suitable punishment, but misrepresenting the facts doesn't actually make the opposite true.

[Aresk]

What punishment did Genn get?

According to Before the Storm, Anduin rebuked both Genn and Rogers for their part in the attack on the Forsaken fleet.

[Soon-TM]

Perfect sense for the Horde to go to war.

It was about time Ally fans admitted to it

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So... he got yelled at?

Not even that, a slap in the wrist at most

[Aresk]

So... he got yelled at?

"Forcefully rebuked" is the only description we get. Rogers doesn't make any appearance in BfA, so it is possible she was also suspended from active service. I'm not sure if Anduin has the authority to do that to Genn, since Genn is the leader of one of the nations of the Alliance, though he was put on babysitting duty for Jaina during the start of BfA. It's clear he's back into a position of authority by Dazar'alor, though, given that he and Shaw were the ones to lead the attack on Rastakhan.

[Maxrokur]

At this point baddies of the month dealt less damage to the Alliance then the horde. I genuinely think that siding with "evil light" kinda like Yrel is more beneficial than helping horde defeat it at this point.

I hope this happens because I really want to see the Alliance on the other end of the stick and Yrel deserves a good role after WoD.

[Pheraz]

Lol! Each others crimes? I guess horde comes with the good old camp taurajo story. But I think alliance will never come close to the crimes the horde has done!
But this is totally fine. I think this is a very important part of WoW. You don't need to rub it into the players faces like in bfa but it's just cool to have that "unknown" other people. Oh shit horde is already there etc. This is great. And the best part is you can't spam them in chat, very important feature in todays hate internet culture. Yea so... even being one of the biggest Kaldorei fans around, I do not think this concept of inaccessible factions needs to stay. But maybe add some more factions or split out some? I still think that Kaldorei does not fit the alliance at all.

[Mehrunes]

Ye, shame we know that had nothing to do with that. AKA Sylvi just wanted to fuel the Maw.

Not to mention that at the time of the "assassination" attempt Syliv was trying to enslave an important character from the faction we all tried to enlist help against Legion for her own personal gain. Potentially undermining us all.

Yeah, because Genn starting a conflict between the factions did not undermine us all. Oh, wait, the very justification in the story for Class Order Halls leading the charge against the Legion was that the Alliance and the Horde were too distracted by being at each other's throats.

Meanwhile on the other hand Sylvanas jeopardized nothing, because we weren't "trying to enlist" any faction there in the first place. We were trying to get the Aegis, which we were doing by participating in Odyn's trials. Which Odyn, in his complete and utter derangement, merrily let even Skovald partake in. Despite the fact that Skovald openly betrayed the Stormheim Vrykul (and, consequently, Odyn himself) and broke the rules of every trial. We only teamed up with Odyn because he went "it was me all along" to us after the fact. Completely ignoring Sylvanas' shenanigans. And then cheerfully directing Horde and Alliance players to kill each other.

Also, none of that had anything to do with Genn's motivations, as he didn't even know about any of that when he attacked. He only learned that Sylvanas' plans has something to do with Val'kyr, without knowing that it's even about Eyir in particular, right before their final confrontation.

Every player character knew. And what that even has to do with anything? Sorry, but Horde has been painted as an aggressor since at least Cata, fact so many Horde players complained about.

Every player knew something that you learn only halfway into Stormheim at the time of Genn's attack on Sylvanas that took place at the start of Stormheim? Damn, did we steal some time traveling gear from the Bronze Dragonflight in Legion and I didn't know about it?

Also, the Alliance started the war that was going on during Cata.

It's only a fact if it's true. Considering Genn was punished by Anduin, your claim is false. You can say he wasn't punished enough, and you can propose a different, more suitable punishment, but misrepresenting the facts doesn't actually make the opposite true.

Except by Anduin's own advice all he did with Genn in reaction to him violating his orders was giving him a stern talk. That's not a punishment by any stretch of the word. Especially once you put it in context of high treason and crimes against peace. Especially^2 if you put it in the additional context of Anduin supposedly being oh, so much in favor of peace and preserving it.

[Clone]

Vanilla WoW would have been the time to do this, but as usual Blizzard blew it.

[Shadowferal]

What's the alternative? Genocide your enemy and hope that creates peace? Do remind me how that worked out for Sylvanas. Peace can only come about if both sides lay down their swords and stop fighting. Call it "running away" but the Night Elves already stood their ground, and they lost. Lost their homes and their land, they can try to reclaim them or settle elsewhere. You can either bury the hatchet or choose to dig it into your opponent face and hope that does it, and for the OVERWHELMING MAJORITY of WoW's history it very specifically HASN'T done it. I don't know what skewed reality you live in where this "fight till the last man" mentality is sound.

But it's not about "both sides." This is you giving forsaken a free pass to mass murder and vainly attempting to shine up that shit by talking peace...a peace that means you standing and dying without throwing a punch, or running away every time the forsaken come to take your land by murder. ...coward.

[Ohvul]

The alliance are too selfish to stand together serving a purpose higher than their individual racial ideologies.

The horde while apparently more primitive in their political dealings at least have the common sense to stand their ground and support their side during times of war (thank you hitler, I mean garrosh for teaching us this lesson). The horde would rather win the war then fight amongst themselves finding a moral purpose... the alliance??? Their largest army / foothold on kalimdor was just obliterated, that continent is for the taking to any horde force willing.

Eastern Kingdoms? What vital resources warrant the taking of lordaeron?? The morality behind giving the undead a final rest? Go further south and you approach lands where even the dwarves didn't want to cultivate resources aside from what can be taken out of a mountain. Even further south? Same thing in Blackrock... you have to go all the way from wetlands to stranglethorn before you reach a large enough source of resources to power a large time-scaled war of the factions. With the current geographical layout of the factions an equally unified alliance has no chance against the horde. Any future battles which occur absolutely cannot be on alliance soil, but the alliance doesn't even have a proper front for that to be the case, the alliance wouldn't even be able to fund a proper war with the horde at this point.

[LarryFromHumanResources]

But it's not about "both sides." This is you giving forsaken a free pass to mass murder and vainly attempting to shine up that shit by talking peace...a peace that means you standing and dying without throwing a punch, or running away every time the forsaken come to take your land by murder. ...coward.

The Forsaken WERE held accountable, they LOST the war, the Kaldorei themselves held them accountable in Darkshore by winning the warfront, I'm not giving anyone a free pass, but YOU are asking the Horde to be held accountable after the fact when they already have been with the people they've lost, the resources poured into a black hole.

If I was a coward I'd be preaching that instead of protecting itself DURING a war the Alliance should keel over and let the Horde do what they want, that's not what I'm saying they should do and it isn't what they did. They fought and won.

The allies held Germany accountable after the first world war, and the reperations placed on the country is largely accounted as attributing to the rise of the nazi party and we both know what happened next.

The Night Elves and Gilneans lost their homes, that's a fact, and they can either be rational and choose a new ones that WON'T cause tensions or be nationalistic and choose ones that will.

If I was a coward I'd be asking them to pick a new one AGAIN should the Horde come knocking but that's not what I'm asking. They can stand their ground whereever they end up and should it come to that, the Horde invading once more, they'll have every right to defend themselves.

Should they win then they'd also have every right to tell the Horde to fuck off because they'd be in a position it wouldn't make sense for the Horde to be in, the Horde would've declared war PURELY out of aggression and hate.

I'm not saying anyone should "run away foreva like little puny babies" I'm saying that in victory you are in a position to be rational.

Your view of the world would see the Gilneans kick the Forsaken out of Silverpine and Gilneas something the Forsaken would be unwilling to take lying down because "muh cowardism, we can't give them a free pass" before we know it there's another territorial tug of war going on one that'll lead to a fifth war.

[Ardenaso]

Genn, Jaina, and Vereesa are yet to be held accountable for their crimes

[Dellis0991]

Genn, Jaina, and Vereesa are yet to be held accountable for their crimes

Everyone got blood on their hands...

[VladlTutushkin]

I hope this happens because I really want to see the Alliance on the other end of the stick and Yrel deserves a good role after WoD.

Oh for sure. Just dont expect to actually punish Alliance for that. You can like, kill Genn... maybe. And be beaten, smashed, humiliated, rolled over and given swirlies for entire expansion before you kill him.

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It was about time Ally fans admitted to it

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Not even that, a slap in the wrist at most

What always disgusted me is how horde fans equate war to genocide. Thats why i changed my mind about peace and war in WoW - not because of NPCs but because of players being complete degenerates and fucktards.

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The alliance are too selfish to stand together serving a purpose higher than their individual racial ideologies.

The horde while apparently more primitive in their political dealings at least have the common sense to stand their ground and support their side during times of war (thank you hitler, I mean garrosh for teaching us this lesson). The horde would rather win the war then fight amongst themselves finding a moral purpose... the alliance??? Their largest army / foothold on kalimdor was just obliterated, that continent is for the taking to any horde force willing.

Eastern Kingdoms? What vital resources warrant the taking of lordaeron?? The morality behind giving the undead a final rest? Go further south and you approach lands where even the dwarves didn't want to cultivate resources aside from what can be taken out of a mountain. Even further south? Same thing in Blackrock... you have to go all the way from wetlands to stranglethorn before you reach a large enough source of resources to power a large time-scaled war of the factions. With the current geographical layout of the factions an equally unified alliance has no chance against the horde. Any future battles which occur absolutely cannot be on alliance soil, but the alliance doesn't even have a proper front for that to be the case, the alliance wouldn't even be able to fund a proper war with the horde at this point.

Lol, allow me to quickly debunk that.
1) Numbers dosent matter in WoW and never mattered when it comes to armies or war resources.
2) By that logic horde should have long since ran out of resources before BfA but they never even slowed down despite plot harping on how strained on stuff they were.
3) Alliance is “Too selfish”? What are you smoking? The faction is unnaturally selfless if anything and nobody seems to care about their own people.

[Sluvs]

The horde committed genocide on Teldrassil.

I mean, you can talk your way out of many things. But a genocide... well that is a little bit hard.

Due to how the horde was written, they are always the aggressors. I believe peace is possible. But forgiveness? Frienship?

Nah man, that ship has sailed

[VladlTutushkin]

The Forsaken WERE held accountable, they LOST the war, the Kaldorei themselves held them accountable in Darkshore by winning the warfront, I'm not giving anyone a free pass, but YOU are asking the Horde to be held accountable after the fact when they already have been with the people they've lost, the resources poured into a black hole.

If I was a coward I'd be preaching that instead of protecting itself DURING a war the Alliance should keel over and let the Horde do what they want, that's not what I'm saying they should do and it isn't what they did. They fought and won.

The allies held Germany accountable after the first world war, and the reperations placed on the country is largely accounted as attributing to the rise of the nazi party and we both know what happened next.

The Night Elves and Gilneans lost their homes, that's a fact, and they can either be rational and choose a new ones that WON'T cause tensions or be nationalistic and choose ones that will.

If I was a coward I'd be asking them to pick a new one AGAIN should the Horde come knocking but that's not what I'm asking. They can stand their ground whereever they end up and should it come to that, the Horde invading once more, they'll have every right to defend themselves.

Should they win then they'd also have every right to tell the Horde to fuck off because they'd be in a position it wouldn't make sense for the Horde to be in, the Horde would've declared war PURELY out of aggression and hate.

I'm not saying anyone should "run away foreva like little puny babies" I'm saying that in victory you are in a position to be rational.

Your view of the world would see the Gilneans kick the Forsaken out of Silverpine and Gilneas something the Forsaken would be unwilling to take lying down because "muh cowardism, we can't give them a free pass" before we know it there's another territorial tug of war going on one that'll lead to a fifth war.

You just being insane now, you know? Like entirely retarded. Not even just “slightly crazy” but “absolutely fucked up in the head so much so that you may need a doctor”.

Night elves abandoning their homes in Kalimdor would be like blood elves leaving Silvermoon or Forsaken leaving Lordaeron as i already mentioned. And horde ALREADY has no good reason to invade them since they have abundant resource outside of Ashenvale. Plus they also lost any right to argue from “morality position” after a genocide.
[Infraction]

[Ardenaso]

Everyone got blood on their hands...

the difference is that the Horde actually gets punished and made to do reprisals while these ones just get a slap on the wrist

[VladlTutushkin]

the difference is that the Horde actually gets punished and made to do reprisals while these ones just get a slap on the wrist

Horde gets reprisal? You mean when they blame it all one a single person, get away with whatever they did and get to keep the land they stole?

I am all for that “punishment” for Alliance if they get to tear your guts off and slap you in the face with them. Oh and do a genocide or two while they at it. And then humiliated you in your own playing field. Like outplay trolls in their jungles and beat them entirely or crush orcs in “honorable” direct battle and send them running in fear.

[Dellis0991]

the difference is that the Horde actually gets punished and made to do reprisals while these ones just get a slap on the wrist

The Alliance punished themselves, Genn lost his kingdom, his son. The dwarves been punishing themselves since the 3 hammer war, the gnomes have fucked themselves twice over, the night elves been fucking themselves since the war of the ancients, the humans since after Thoradin walked away have shot themselves in foot repeatedly because apparently a bloodthirsty barbarian had better functioning brain than the whole collective of humanity. Draenei got fucked because they are draenei.

[Shadowferal]

You just being insane now, you know? Like entirely retarded. Not even just “slightly crazy” but “absolutely fucked up in the head so much so that you may need a doctor”.

Night elves abandoning their homes in Kalimdor would be like blood elves leaving Silvermoon or Forsaken leaving Lordaeron as i already mentioned. And horde ALREADY has no good reason to invade them since they have abundant resource outside of Ashenvale. Plus they also lost any right to argue from “morality position” after a genocide.

You're saying what I was thinking. But the guy seems to imagine some bullshit kumbaya hold hands and turn the other cheek...utter nonsense.
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Had the horde been truly interested in peace they'd have disavowed the Forsaken altogether; told the undead leaders that Sylvanus' head on a pole would be the price for less harsher penalty and probation indefinitely.