View Poll Results: Do you think the Alliance and the Horde can ever forgive each other for past crimes?

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171. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes, they can forgive each other

    42 24.56%
  • No, they can't forgive each other

    82 47.95%
  • Other / Not sure / It's complicated

    47 27.49%
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  1. #101
    Don't care if they forgive. Forgiveness is not required to move on. Cooperation is.

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by Swnem View Post
    Don't care if they forgive. Forgiveness is not required to move on. Cooperation is.
    Cooperating with the horde should be considered a crime in the Alliance. Horde at this point is an existential threat to all Alliance races, not even their nations. Only way of "cooperating" should be by shooting them dead from a good distance if possible.

  3. #103
    the power of anduin, baine and friendship is incomprehensible and undefeatable.
    sargeras himself would be convinced the void deserves forgiveness, if you let anduin and him stay in the same room for few days.
    the horde and alliance conflict is childs play compared to anduins and bains powahh
    The crooked shitposter with no eyes is watching from the endless thread.

    From the space that is everywhere and nowhere, the crooked shitposter feasts on memes.

    He has no eyes to see, but he dreams of infinite memeing and trolling.

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by VladlTutushkin View Post
    So Horde should "punish" the Alliance, but when Alliance wants to punish them horde its "too much"...
    Can you name me a time where the Horde attacked and tried to kill the leader of the Alliance while they were working together to stop a world ending invasion?

    Also lets entertain this idea. Anduin puts them both in prison. Okay. Would Sylvanas just shrugged her shoulders and told the Jailer
    Let's play a scenario, say I'm elected the leader of a country and I really would love to go to war with this other country. However the people who elected me didn't do it because they wanted to go to war with that country, but that I was pretty good at fixing the economy. It's going to be really hard for me to convince this country to go to war with other country... however the other country doesn't like me, so they bomb the city I'm in in hopes of killing me, killing 1000's in the process. What do you think would happen? My country would go to war with the other country.

    Let's even say it was a general who didn't like me, went against his leader's orders and attacked. He and his accomplices would most likely be rounded up and put on trial or handed over to my country to make amends. If not, then my country would have every right to go to war with the other country.

    Now back to your little entertaining. Why do you think the members of the Horde, majority of which just fought a civil war against Garrosh, were willing to go to war with the Alliance? It's because during a WORLD ENDING INVASION the Alliance who the Horde had just worked with, launched a surprise attack on the Horde fleet in an attempt to kill the new leader of the Horde.

    But "REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE" you must be saying, "the Alliance only ever fight the horde in retaliation!" The Alliance has started almost every single conflict between the 2 factions since Thrall's Horde became a thing.

  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by MikeBogina View Post
    One had good relations with the Horde and joined the Alliance in spite of that. One had horrible relations and joined the Alliance out of necessity. Not the same thing, not even close lol.
    I personally wouldn't characterize the Night Elves and Horde as having good relations. The night elves declared war on the Horde at the races' first meeting. The Horde killed their demigod. The Night Elves attacked the Alliance for merely being affiliated with the Horde. Yes, they worked together for one mission in WC3:RoC, but the Alliance and Horde worked together for four missions in that game.

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeBogina View Post
    Genn and Rogers being on the airship isn't the problem, Genn and Rogers taking their personal grudge and going against their king's orders and attacking the Horde fleet and attempting to kill the Horde leader during a WORLD ENDING INVASION is the problem.

    Their actions have consequences and if Anduin wasn't going to punish them, then the Horde would have to punish the Alliance.
    Anduin did rebuke the two of them. He should've also paid reparations to the Horde, but reparations don't seem to exist in the Warcraft setting, because no one ever pays them (though I guess Thrall did give Sira to Tyrande as a token of apology for the Horde's destroying Teldrassil and killing Sira in the first place).

    As far as the "world ending invasion" goes, Grom attacked the Alliance despite Thrall's orders during the previous invasion, and his punishment wasn't much harsher. The Horde attacked Gilneas during a world ending cataclysm. Varian declared war against the Horde during a world ending undead assault. Sylvanas burned Teldrassil during a world ending crisis in Silithus. The only time there seemed to be major attacks between the factions when the world wasn't in imminent peril was during Garrosh's reign from Theramore through the end of MoP. If Azeroth's wellbeing were ever a consideration in whether the factions should fight, they'd almost never come to blows.

  6. #106
    It should have happened long ago, blizzard won't let it.

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by MikeBogina View Post
    Can you name me a time where the Horde attacked and tried to kill the leader of the Alliance while they were working together to stop a world ending invasion?



    Let's play a scenario, say I'm elected the leader of a country and I really would love to go to war with this other country. However the people who elected me didn't do it because they wanted to go to war with that country, but that I was pretty good at fixing the economy. It's going to be really hard for me to convince this country to go to war with other country... however the other country doesn't like me, so they bomb the city I'm in in hopes of killing me, killing 1000's in the process. What do you think would happen? My country would go to war with the other country.

    Let's even say it was a general who didn't like me, went against his leader's orders and attacked. He and his accomplices would most likely be rounded up and put on trial or handed over to my country to make amends. If not, then my country would have every right to go to war with the other country.

    Now back to your little entertaining. Why do you think the members of the Horde, majority of which just fought a civil war against Garrosh, were willing to go to war with the Alliance? It's because during a WORLD ENDING INVASION the Alliance who the Horde had just worked with, launched a surprise attack on the Horde fleet in an attempt to kill the new leader of the Horde.

    But "REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE" you must be saying, "the Alliance only ever fight the horde in retaliation!" The Alliance has started almost every single conflict between the 2 factions since Thrall's Horde became a thing.
    Your example does not add up since you for some reason brought up a “city” while Genn attacked her fleet.

    Also i suppose attacking Gilneas during a world ending event (and also during a worgen epidemic in his country) and actually trying to wipe out its entire population or enslave them... Was alright.

    Whatever... At this point you just want to defend sylvanas and while i understand that love is blind sometimes it can be also stupid.

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by VladlTutushkin View Post
    Your example does not add up since you for some reason brought up a “city” while Genn attacked her fleet.

    Also i suppose attacking Gilneas during a world ending event (and also during a worgen epidemic in his country) and actually trying to wipe out its entire population or enslave them... Was alright.

    Whatever... At this point you just want to defend sylvanas and while i understand that love is blind sometimes it can be also stupid.
    We don't know who attacked who first -- but the Alliance and Horde were in a state of semi-hostility in Draenor, at least in regions such as Ashran. And we cannot forget that in fairness, the Alliance and Horde were deceived all along by the nathrezim during the early stages of the conflict, as per the rogue campaign, when the Alliance attacked Sylvanas, it might possibly have been on their tainted intelligence as well. There are just too many factors to take into account.
    "Always you speak. Never do you listen! You ignore the lessons of Pandaria! You see, there is balance in all things. Wisdom etched in our very fur: Black and white. Darkness and light. When the last emperor hid our land from the rest of the world, he also preserved...our ancient enemy, the mantid. So it is with your Alliance and your Horde. They are not strong despite one another; they are strong BECAUSE of one another. You mistake your greatest strength for weakness. Do you see this?"

  9. #109
    The alliance have done nothing to ask forgiveness for, the orcs can go climb back into the portals they came from if they don't like it.

  10. #110
    Probably, irl nations with awful history to eachother have forgiven eachother.

    But holy fuck blizzard need to stop writing "then the Horde went evil" for the millionth time...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gamingsince1981 View Post
    The alliance have done nothing to ask forgiveness for, the orcs can go climb back into the portals they came from if they don't like it.
    I mean the goblins, the Forsaken, the trolls, the blood elves and the Vuleprea atleast have reasons to want an apology from the Allaince, that not counting things done when they were active members of the Horde.

  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by WonderZebra View Post
    I mean the goblins, the Forsaken, the trolls, the blood elves and the Vuleprea atleast have reasons to want an apology from the Allaince, that not counting things done when they were active members of the Horde.
    The goblins that are to this day trading in slaves and destroying Kalimdor wherever the Nightelves can't stop them.

    The Trolls that literally ATE humans, with the Zandalari being responsible for reviving the Thunder King that nearly destroyed the world.

    The Forsaken... oh man... don't even know where to begin. Human experiments, Wrathgate, Southshore, Darkshore and I am not even including Sylvanas' personal crimes.

    Vulpera supported the Horde in a war where it had already commited a horendous genocide. If attacking them is wrong, tell me when the Horde apologized for Brennadan? Where parents were nailed to barn doors in front of their children and such funny acts that strangely only come from the Horde.

    I give you that the Blood Elves were mistreated by Garithos, but he was not speaking for the Alliance, he was a bastard that took control after the Alliance of Lordaeron was destroyed.

    Apart from them, none of these guys deserves any kind of apology, for some of them it is laughable to demand one.

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by WonderZebra View Post
    Probably, irl nations with awful history to eachother have forgiven eachother.

    But holy fuck blizzard need to stop writing "then the Horde went evil" for the millionth time...

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    I mean the goblins, the Forsaken, the trolls, the blood elves and the Vuleprea atleast have reasons to want an apology from the Allaince, that not counting things done when they were active members of the Horde.
    Okay Vulpera i can understand.

    Blood elves maybe too.

    Trolls are jerks to everybody, even other trolls. Actually only reason Darkspear got onto those islands and attacked by humans and naga was because other trolls kicked them out of Strangelthorn.

    But forsaken? Seriously? Its them who should apologise to humans and worgen and night elves now. Excessively.

  13. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by Raisei View Post
    The goblins that are to this day trading in slaves and destroying Kalimdor wherever the Nightelves can't stop them.

    The Trolls that literally ATE humans, with the Zandalari being responsible for reviving the Thunder King that nearly destroyed the world.

    The Forsaken... oh man... don't even know where to begin. Human experiments, Wrathgate, Southshore, Darkshore and I am not even including Sylvanas' personal crimes.

    Vulpera supported the Horde in a war where it had already commited a horendous genocide. If attacking them is wrong, tell me when the Horde apologized for Brennadan? Where parents were nailed to barn doors in front of their children and such funny acts that strangely only come from the Horde.

    I give you that the Blood Elves were mistreated by Garithos, but he was not speaking for the Alliance, he was a bastard that took control after the Alliance of Lordaeron was destroyed.

    Apart from them, none of these guys deserves any kind of apology, for some of them it is laughable to demand one.
    I said they had reasons not that those reasons outweighed any other reasons it would go the other way.

    Alliance attacked goblin refugees

    Alliance races literally destroyed multiple trolls empires and stole land. (Admittedly one of those are now Horde).

    Alliance attacked Forsaken before they joined the Horde on sight.

    Vulpera supported the Horde because the horde helped them. They didn't help them in active fighting just supply lines. Hardly justification with burning them with fire. Unless you think the allies should have bombed Sweden and Switzerland during WW2.

    I was replying to someone who said the Alliance had done nothing worth apoglsies for. When often it's the Alliances action that push races towards the Horde. But pound for pound the Horde are worse, especially during BFA (But I also think the entire BFA writing of the Horde was dumb and fuck as antithetical to the where MoP left the mainstream Horde.)
    Last edited by WonderZebra; 2021-02-16 at 03:17 PM.

  14. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by WonderZebra View Post
    I said they had reasons not that those reasons outweighed any other reasons it would go the other way.

    Alliance attacked goblin refugees

    Alliance races literally destroyed multiple trolls empires and stole land. (Admittedly one of those are now Horde).

    Alliance attacked Forsaken before they joined the Horde on sight.

    Vulpera supported the Horde because the horde helped them. They didn't help them in active fighting just supply lines. Hardly justification with burning them with fire. Unless you think the allies should have bombed Sweden and Switzerland during WW2.

    I was replying to someone who said the Alliance had done nothing worth apoglsies for. When often it's the Alliances action that push races towards the Horde. But pound for pound the Horde are worse, especially during BFA (But I also think the entire BFA writing of the Horde was dumb and fuck as antithetical to the where MoP left the mainstream Horde.)
    Forsaken attacked humans first when they wiped out Garithose’s army.

    And subsequently all surviving Lordaeron refugees with them.

  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by Aresk View Post
    I personally wouldn't characterize the Night Elves and Horde as having good relations. The night elves declared war on the Horde at the races' first meeting. The Horde killed their demigod. The Night Elves attacked the Alliance for merely being affiliated with the Horde. Yes, they worked together for one mission in WC3:RoC, but the Alliance and Horde worked together for four missions in that game.
    Good terms in the sense that they just fought side by side throughout Ashenvale, Felwood and Hyjal. Which in game may be one or 2 missions, is actually a much longer experience in reality. Orcs, Trolls and Tauren died fighting the Demons to keep them from getting to the Well of Eternity2.0, something they didn't have to do, but did so because the world needed them to do. You'd think this would put the NEs and Orcs on good terms but I guess not xD

    Also not so much as Alliance as "Jaina's Forces", her group didn't really rejoin the Alliance until like WotLK.

    Anduin did rebuke the two of them. He should've also paid reparations to the Horde, but reparations don't seem to exist in the Warcraft setting, because no one ever pays them (though I guess Thrall did give Sira to Tyrande as a token of apology for the Horde's destroying Teldrassil and killing Sira in the first place).
    He should have done a lot more. The Horde has killed disobedient members before, the Alliance should at least imprison or strip of power theirs in similar situations. And I probably haven't seen a form of reparations in warcraft either, what we have seen is the Orcs paying a penance by settling in a harsh environment for what they've done in the past.

    As far as the "world ending invasion" goes, Grom attacked the Alliance despite Thrall's orders during the previous invasion, and his punishment wasn't much harsher.
    There's a difference here though, there's no cooperation between the Horde and Alliance at this point, they're basically in open war. The Alliance attacked the Horde on the Troll's island and when we come across Grom, he's fighting the Alliance. Grom continuing to fight the Alliance isn't an act of inciting war, it was going against Thrall's orders of avoiding them(them being enemies at the time) so Thrall's punishment of him was for him to decide because he was the only party who was... crossed? Unless I'm mistaken and Thrall and Jaina had come to terms at this point, they were already at war, where as Warchief Sylvanas and HighKing Anduin were not at war. Also Grom did get a punishment, more than Genn ever got. He was forced to do manual labor of clearing forest for the Horde forces when they arrived in Ashenvale, something demeaning to a proud orc warrior. I wanna see Genn digging ditches!

    The Horde attacked Gilneas during a world ending cataclysm
    Gilneas wasn't apart of the Alliance. However that same world ending invasion, the Alliance were invading Horde lands and made an attempt to kill Thrall open waters while he was on his way to help save the world xD

    Varian declared war against the Horde during a world ending undead assault.
    Yes he did, very hot headed and tried to kill Thrall in Undercity but was stopped(always trying to kill the warchiefs)

    Sylvanas burned Teldrassil during a world ending crisis in Silithus.
    Not so much world ending, pretty sure we sacrificed our weapons to stop that. And it's a followup to Genn's attack during a WORLD ENDING INVASION

    The only time there seemed to be major attacks between the factions when the world wasn't in imminent peril was during Garrosh's reign from Theramore through the end of MoP.
    What can I say, Garrosh was at least nice enough to fight the Alliance after DeathWing's defeat.

    So with Garrosh and Theramore, which is basically Sylvanas and Teldrassil, you have the Alliance who during a world ending event, the 2 biggest in recent history, the Alliance made attacks on the Horde and attempts to kill their leaders. S7 tried to kill Thrall in open seas, even going as far as to kill the goblins because "no witnesses" and Sylvanas for her part in the attacks on Gilneas years ago, before it was apart of the Alliance. Then once the major world ending event is over, the Horde turn their focus on the Alliance for what they Alliance had done... which always catches the Alliance by surprise, like they believe they can only fight during world ending events :/

    If Azeroth's wellbeing were ever a consideration in whether the factions should fight, they'd almost never come to blows.
    It certainly isn't for the Alliance. But everything you've listed and that I've replied about isn't the same as what happened in Stormheim. You have 2 factions who aren't at war, who just got done working together(based on some really bad intel by the alliance) who's new leaders haven't even made any intentions of fighting the other and then some rogue members of the Alliance attack the Horde, killing most of their fleet and attempt to kill their leader, knowing that their combined forces just got wrecked by the Legion.

    If you were ready to work together, if you know working together was the only way and the other faction had members who still attacked you, even during world ending invasions... it makes sense to get rid of them now before the next one pops up. Anduin could have avoided BFA if he punished Genn and Rogers and made it clear to the Horde that those 2 would never be in a position to do that again. Kinda like Krom'gar, but still alive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VladlTutushkin View Post
    Your example does not add up since you for some reason brought up a “city” while Genn attacked her fleet.
    ohh no i said city instead of fleet, I also didn't say there was a world ending invasion by demons either in my real life scenario too.... it's all ruined!!!!

    Seriously, you couldn't give me an example of "Horde attacked and tried to kill the leader of the Alliance while they were working together to stop a world ending invasion?"?? Still waiting on that.

    Also i suppose attacking Gilneas during a world ending event (and also during a worgen epidemic in his country) and actually trying to wipe out its entire population or enslave them... Was alright.
    Gilneas that wasn't apart of the Alliance, that was being overrun by monsters who gave the Forsaken enough trouble when it was just one village that was overrun, that was already being besieged by the Forsaken at the Greymane wall before the world ending event started, that were eventually allowed to leave peacefully by Sylvanas?

    imagine joining another nation and throwing it into a war for your own revenge

    Whatever... At this point you just want to defend sylvanas and while i understand that love is blind sometimes it can be also stupid.
    "Ohh no the Horde player is winning the argument, time to say he's a Sylvanas lover and dismiss his argument with insults"
    It's ok Vlady, I wont lower myself to your level with petty insults like that, it's the sign of someone with low intelligence and I just would rather hit ya with all these facts that prove you wrong

  16. #116
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    Alliance fans are so used to the narrative sweeping their $&#@ under the rug (or outright retcons when sweeping isn't enough) that they simply can't admit that Blue Team has also done its fair share of funky stuff. I can see why they love their blonde Mary Sue so much

  17. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by VladlTutushkin View Post
    Forsaken attacked humans first when they wiped out Garithose’s army.

    And subsequently all surviving Lordaeron refugees with them.
    Without knowing that the southern humans tried to kill them regardless. But fair enough. One of four sort of countered?

    I'll take it you accept my point

  18. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by WonderZebra View Post
    Without knowing that the southern humans tried to kill them regardless. But fair enough. One of four sort of countered?
    Love how Alliance view Garithos depending on the situation. He's not representative of the Alliance when sentencing the Blood Elves to death, but afterwards he is when Sylvanas, who is the former(not by choice) Ranger General of the people he sentenced to death, sentences him to death.

    If the current Alliance doesn't accept responsibility for the crimes of garithos, they can't also use his death either. Forsaken killed Garithos but Garithos sentenced the Blood Elves to die before that.

  19. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by MikeBogina View Post
    Good terms in the sense that they just fought side by side throughout Ashenvale, Felwood and Hyjal. Which in game may be one or 2 missions, is actually a much longer experience in reality. Orcs, Trolls and Tauren died fighting the Demons to keep them from getting to the Well of Eternity2.0, something they didn't have to do, but did so because the world needed them to do. You'd think this would put the NEs and Orcs on good terms but I guess not xD

    Also not so much as Alliance as "Jaina's Forces", her group didn't really rejoin the Alliance until like WotLK.



    He should have done a lot more. The Horde has killed disobedient members before, the Alliance should at least imprison or strip of power theirs in similar situations. And I probably haven't seen a form of reparations in warcraft either, what we have seen is the Orcs paying a penance by settling in a harsh environment for what they've done in the past.


    There's a difference here though, there's no cooperation between the Horde and Alliance at this point, they're basically in open war. The Alliance attacked the Horde on the Troll's island and when we come across Grom, he's fighting the Alliance. Grom continuing to fight the Alliance isn't an act of inciting war, it was going against Thrall's orders of avoiding them(them being enemies at the time) so Thrall's punishment of him was for him to decide because he was the only party who was... crossed? Unless I'm mistaken and Thrall and Jaina had come to terms at this point, they were already at war, where as Warchief Sylvanas and HighKing Anduin were not at war. Also Grom did get a punishment, more than Genn ever got. He was forced to do manual labor of clearing forest for the Horde forces when they arrived in Ashenvale, something demeaning to a proud orc warrior. I wanna see Genn digging ditches!


    Gilneas wasn't apart of the Alliance. However that same world ending invasion, the Alliance were invading Horde lands and made an attempt to kill Thrall open waters while he was on his way to help save the world xD


    Yes he did, very hot headed and tried to kill Thrall in Undercity but was stopped(always trying to kill the warchiefs)


    Not so much world ending, pretty sure we sacrificed our weapons to stop that. And it's a followup to Genn's attack during a WORLD ENDING INVASION

    What can I say, Garrosh was at least nice enough to fight the Alliance after DeathWing's defeat.

    So with Garrosh and Theramore, which is basically Sylvanas and Teldrassil, you have the Alliance who during a world ending event, the 2 biggest in recent history, the Alliance made attacks on the Horde and attempts to kill their leaders. S7 tried to kill Thrall in open seas, even going as far as to kill the goblins because "no witnesses" and Sylvanas for her part in the attacks on Gilneas years ago, before it was apart of the Alliance. Then once the major world ending event is over, the Horde turn their focus on the Alliance for what they Alliance had done... which always catches the Alliance by surprise, like they believe they can only fight during world ending events :/


    It certainly isn't for the Alliance. But everything you've listed and that I've replied about isn't the same as what happened in Stormheim. You have 2 factions who aren't at war, who just got done working together(based on some really bad intel by the alliance) who's new leaders haven't even made any intentions of fighting the other and then some rogue members of the Alliance attack the Horde, killing most of their fleet and attempt to kill their leader, knowing that their combined forces just got wrecked by the Legion.

    If you were ready to work together, if you know working together was the only way and the other faction had members who still attacked you, even during world ending invasions... it makes sense to get rid of them now before the next one pops up. Anduin could have avoided BFA if he punished Genn and Rogers and made it clear to the Horde that those 2 would never be in a position to do that again. Kinda like Krom'gar, but still alive.

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    ohh no i said city instead of fleet, I also didn't say there was a world ending invasion by demons either in my real life scenario too.... it's all ruined!!!!

    Seriously, you couldn't give me an example of "Horde attacked and tried to kill the leader of the Alliance while they were working together to stop a world ending invasion?"?? Still waiting on that.


    Gilneas that wasn't apart of the Alliance, that was being overrun by monsters who gave the Forsaken enough trouble when it was just one village that was overrun, that was already being besieged by the Forsaken at the Greymane wall before the world ending event started, that were eventually allowed to leave peacefully by Sylvanas?

    imagine joining another nation and throwing it into a war for your own revenge


    "Ohh no the Horde player is winning the argument, time to say he's a Sylvanas lover and dismiss his argument with insults"
    It's ok Vlady, I wont lower myself to your level with petty insults like that, it's the sign of someone with low intelligence and I just would rather hit ya with all these facts that prove you wrong
    1) Gilneans were not allowed to "leave peacefully", they had to free their people from the mines where those were worked to death and then fed to an abomination and then hastily evacuated on night elven ships.
    LATER Crowley was "allowed" to leave peacefully but that was him and his guerrillas, not all gilneans.

    2) Also i know you will just repeat the same thing but i am a bit disturbed by the amount of "pat myself on the back and toot my own horn" you do. I know you like to imagine yourself to be that overwhelmingly knowledgeable 200IQ lore monster "pwning alliance losers" but that starts to look like some weird online masturbation...

    3) Regardless, all your arguments seem to focus on "lets bite into one part of the story, ignore others, ignore all nuance and play it like the most crooked lawyer in the land". Which is okay and may even work now and then but otherwise you just end up patting your own back and putting medals on your chest faster then Kim Jon does. Impressive, makes you feel proud and whatever but not really "true" since you just pushing your own line, putting your opinion as one and only truth.

    P.S.
    Maybe next time you get your wish and Alliance gets to be the "official bad guy" BUT if you get that then i want the "genocide without consequences" part that horde always gets and seems to conveniently ignore later on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    Alliance fans are so used to the narrative sweeping their $&#@ under the rug (or outright retcons when sweeping isn't enough) that they simply can't admit that Blue Team has also done its fair share of funky stuff. I can see why they love their blonde Mary Sue so much
    And horde fans are used to dogpiling, witch-hunting and generalizing. See, i can do that too. You DO love your grey emo elf so much

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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeBogina View Post
    Love how Alliance view Garithos depending on the situation. He's not representative of the Alliance when sentencing the Blood Elves to death, but afterwards he is when Sylvanas, who is the former(not by choice) Ranger General of the people he sentenced to death, sentences him to death.

    If the current Alliance doesn't accept responsibility for the crimes of garithos, they can't also use his death either. Forsaken killed Garithos but Garithos sentenced the Blood Elves to die before that.
    He is not representative of Alliance but he is a human, leading humans. If you kill human leading humans in a kingdom of humans other humans might start thinking that you are into killing humans dont you agree?

  20. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by MikeBogina View Post
    Good terms in the sense that they just fought side by side throughout Ashenvale, Felwood and Hyjal. Which in game may be one or 2 missions, is actually a much longer experience in reality. Orcs, Trolls and Tauren died fighting the Demons to keep them from getting to the Well of Eternity2.0, something they didn't have to do, but did so because the world needed them to do. You'd think this would put the NEs and Orcs on good terms but I guess not xD
    They fought against one another through Ashenvale and Felwood. They didn't fight alongside one another until Hyjal. And after it was over, the Warsong went back to harvesting lumber, which is what caused the night elves to begin hostilities in the first place. I would say that, yes, that does not put one in good terms. That puts one at the brink of open conflict again.

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeBogina View Post
    Gilneas wasn't apart of the Alliance. However that same world ending invasion, the Alliance were invading Horde lands and made an attempt to kill Thrall open waters while he was on his way to help save the world xD
    That's sort of the point, since you said the night elves should've remained neutral to avoid being attacked. Gilneas wasn't even part of that conflict, and during a world-ending event, the Horde opted to open new warfronts after years of no conflict. You can see why Genn, after such an event, might be willing to kill Sylvanas regardless of world-ending events after a brief cessation of hostilities.

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeBogina View Post
    Not so much world ending, pretty sure we sacrificed our weapons to stop that. And it's a followup to Genn's attack during a WORLD ENDING INVASION
    The weapons were used to stop Sargeras' weapon from killing Azeroth. Azeroth was still dying, which was a major point throughout all of BfA. When we first get the heart and use it to heal Azeroth, the world was literally seconds away from rupturing in the heart chamber. If we hadn't gone through the War of Thorns and the Battle of Lordaeron (and the azerite harvesting performed for those assaults), then the world's weakened state could've been addressed much sooner.

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeBogina View Post
    It certainly isn't for the Alliance. But everything you've listed and that I've replied about isn't the same as what happened in Stormheim. You have 2 factions who aren't at war, who just got done working together(based on some really bad intel by the alliance) who's new leaders haven't even made any intentions of fighting the other and then some rogue members of the Alliance attack the Horde, killing most of their fleet and attempt to kill their leader, knowing that their combined forces just got wrecked by the Legion.
    Yeah, that attack was a really bad thing, enough to justify doing the exact same thing to Teldrassil, or at least that's the way Sylvanas spun it. Except the attack by Genn was due to the Horde attacking Gilneas during a world-ending event despite there being two factions not at war. Thus, by Sylvanas' logic, Genn is justified in attacking her at Stormheim. Either Stormheim and Teldrassil were both horrible attacks, or they're both justified. I believe the former. Regardless, Gilneas' neutrality didn't spare them Sylvanas' assault in Cataclysm, and thus there's no reason to believe that, had the Sentinels remained neutral, it would have spared them Sylvanas' assault in BFA.

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