Do you think the Alliance and the Horde can ever forgive each other for past crimes?

[baskev]

snip

Yes, and they already did. Several times. But some wounds will take time to heal. I think teldrassil and all the night elf zones will be a hard one.

[Rendark]

Because of bad and just lazy writing the horde has done to much shitty stuff.

[Maljinwo]

Can't forgive

But they can surely move past that as there's a new baddie of the month they'll have to team up to defeat it anyway

[Myradin]

Its kinda sad how much wow has tried to hammer home that no, the the horde are bad afterall. As opposed to WC3 which tried to make all the bad stuff the fault of demons.

Thrall's horde was generally pretty decent. It had normal resources/territory conflict with the NE, but didn't do anything insane. Alliance and Horde disputes are more 'mundane' in this time, stuff you'd expect medieval countries to do. Both sides do kinda unfortunate stuff to the other, but the scale is relatively small.

The Garrosh came and amped up the conflict, dropping bombs, drinking the sha juice. But hey, maybe he just has a warped perception of the demon times?

Nah, WoD then has to prove that you gives orcs some freedom/power and they'll happily make roads of bones for you.

Okay so orcs are apparently bad in general, lets put a non-orc in charge. Vol'jin dies off quickly and we get sylvannus, who then does exactly what garrosh did.

No wonder Thrall and Saurfang are so sad, their dream is utterly ruined at this point.

[Shadowferal]

At this point the Night Elven hold on northern Kalimdor should be so weak that it won't be an issue.

Teldrassil was burned, Darkshore's a wasteland and Ashenvale was steamrolled.

The Night Elves just need to pick up and leave, and settle either in the Eastern Kingdoms (Duskwood or Aerie Peak come to mind as ideal spots due to both having dream ways) or southern Kalimdor (Feralas and Un'Goro come to mind)

Bish bash bosh world peace everyone is out of eachother's way and the only thing that can start a war is another "We need to start a war before they do" scenario

Until the horde invade ne territory...again? Or perhaps another Gilneas? Fuck appeasement Montgomery. The undead need to be promoted to completely dead...and their toxic stain wiped away.

[Shadowferal]

Ah, there it is, the "We need to kill them before they kill us" meme
Case in point.

Apparently you've been asleep while Gilneas and Teldrassil happened.
Or worse, you imagine that there should never be any repercussions or consequences for mass murder...just run away..

[Lorgar Aurelian]

At this point the Night Elven hold on northern Kalimdor should be so weak that it won't be an issue.

Teldrassil was burned, Darkshore's a wasteland and Ashenvale was steamrolled.

The Night Elves just need to pick up and leave, and settle either in the Eastern Kingdoms (Duskwood or Aerie Peak come to mind as ideal spots due to both having dream ways) or southern Kalimdor (Feralas and Un'Goro come to mind)

Bish bash bosh world peace everyone is out of eachother's way and the only thing that can start a war is another "We need to start a war before they do" scenario

Hyjal should be pretty Impregnable with all of the fortifications which would have been done to deal with the TH and the forelands, with all that prep and the whole NE fighting force and multiple wolf gods living there the chases the horde could ever push them out should be zero.

[Plehnard]

At this point the Night Elven hold on northern Kalimdor should be so weak that it won't be an issue.

Teldrassil was burned, Darkshore's a wasteland and Ashenvale was steamrolled.

The Night Elves just need to pick up and leave, and settle either in the Eastern Kingdoms (Duskwood or Aerie Peak come to mind as ideal spots due to both having dream ways) or southern Kalimdor (Feralas and Un'Goro come to mind)

Bish bash bosh world peace everyone is out of eachother's way and the only thing that can start a war is another "We need to start a war before they do" scenario

It's already established that they are located at Nordrassil now and most likely have retaken Ashenvale. If some one has to resettle it's the horde.

[cozzri]

There can never be peace, just look at real life as an example.

[bowlink]

Hyjal should be pretty Impregnable with all of the fortifications which would have been done to deal with the TH and the forelands, with all that prep and the whole NE fighting force and multiple wolf gods living there the chases the horde could ever push them out should be zero.

Didn't the nelf migrate back to nordrassil. I seem to remember tyrande ignoring thrall till he promised her sylvanas's head

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Didn't the nelf migrate back to nordrassil. I seem to remember tyrande ignoring thrall till he promised her sylvanas's head

nordrassil Is located in mt HyJal.

[VladlTutushkin]

Can't forgive

But they can surely move past that as there's a new baddie of the month they'll have to team up to defeat it anyway

At this point baddies of the month dealt less damage to the Alliance then the horde. I genuinely think that siding with "evil light" kinda like Yrel is more beneficial then helping horde defeat it at this point.

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Where has it been reestablished? Wowpedia has Ashenvale in shambles.

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Interesting but ultimately of little consequence, with the Horde having free reign over Aszhara, Darkshore and presumably Ashenvale they have all the resources they need and no reason to push into Mount Hyjal.

It can be left at that, if both factions are willing, is my point.

Of course the Night Elves will want their lands back and the Gilneans will want their city back which is why there WON'T be peace, but that's a different conversation, the point is there CAN be peace.

Horde officially has no claims on Ashenvale since they traded it for Azshara. Leaving Ashenvale for them now is asinine and dangerous both. There can be peace as long as they leave it. Plus Darkshore is Alliance controlled canonically.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Interesting but ultimately of little consequence, with the Horde having free reign over Aszhara, Darkshore and presumably Ashenvale they have all the resources they need and no reason to push into Mount Hyjal.

It can be left at that, if both factions are willing, is my point.

Of course the Night Elves will want their lands back and the Gilneans will want their city back which is why there WON'T be peace, but that's a different conversation, the point is there CAN be peace.

They could leave it as is ya but that would never really happen. I’d be surprised if the night elfs aren’t already doing guerrilla warfare in ashenvale from Hyjal.

[VladlTutushkin]

Where has it been reestablished? Wowpedia has Ashenvale in shambles.

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Interesting but ultimately of little consequence, with the Horde having free reign over Aszhara, Darkshore and presumably Ashenvale they have all the resources they need and no reason to push into Mount Hyjal.

It can be left at that, if both factions are willing, is my point.

Of course the Night Elves will want their lands back and the Gilneans will want their city back which is why there WON'T be peace, but that's a different conversation, the point is there CAN be peace.

And if night elves move to Eatern Kingdoms then Blood elves and forsaken should move to Kalimdor. Enirely. Leaving Silvermoon and Lordaeron.

But they wont because its their ancestral land which they have all the rights to own so neither should night elves be forced to relocate.

[VladlTutushkin]

Noone is forcing anyone to do anything, you're right though if the factions REALLY wanted peace it could be achieved that way as well

Horde has all the resources they want with Azshara and their more recent new zones like Highmountain , Suramar and Zandalar. They have huge ports , rich land and abundance of resources. Horde has literally no need for Ashenvale other then just greed right now.

There can be peace when they settle down and stop trying to take whats not theirs, maybe try to be less genocidal too.

[Shadowferal]

If you always run away...then you never have to fight. A rather fucked up philosophy.

[Lodreh]

No forgiveness... both need to be dismantled.

[Plehnard]

Where has it been reestablished? Wowpedia has Ashenvale in shambles.

If the Horde still had remains there Tyrande would have demanded their retreat the moment when Thrall came crawling for forgiveness at Nordrassil.

[VladlTutushkin]

If the Horde still had remains there Tyrande would have demanded their retreat the moment when Thrall came crawling for forgiveness at Nordrassil.

They might have simply glossed over it, really. So far there is no evidence that Ashenvale was returned. Plus she would have being there and not on Hyjal if that was so.

[Plehnard]

They might have simply glossed over it, really. So far there is no evidence that Ashenvale was returned. Plus she would have being there and not on Hyjal if that was so.

The opposite would be the case, if the horde still was in Ashenvale she or at least one of her commanders (Maiev or Shandris) would have been there fighting for it.
It was stated by Blizzard that the Nightelves won Darkshore which would automatically lead to further battles in Ashenvale which, according to the mission table, never was fully taken by the horde.
The fact that all of these 3 where at Hyjal shows that all fighting was over at that time.