1. #1

    Bwonsamdi's possible deal with the Arbiter

    Okay, so hear me out.
    I've been thinking about this for a long time and there is something off with the Other Side.

    Please be noted:
    I did not find anything specific regarding this in-game (did the whole Night Fae scenario aswell) so if there is a quest or something that explains this then consider everything I just said null and void.

    So, according to the established lore the Other Side is Bwonsamdi's pocket dimension in Ardenweald.
    He can personally ferry souls there and summon them whenever and whereever he wants to.
    He demonstrated this in BfA (summoning Torga, giving back Rastakhan's spirit when he first died to Rezan) and in Shadow's Rising where he summoned Rastakhan for a brief period for Talanji to talk to.
    He also summoned a bunch of Zandalari "undead" during the Battle of Dazar'alor.

    Now here's the thing:

    How can Bwonsamdi directly ferry souls to the Other Side in the first place?
    It is stated in lore that the Kyrians put everyone before the Arbiter who judges and sends them off.
    How does Bwonsamdi have the power to ferry Zandalari AND EVEN LOA (Torga) to the Other Side like it's nothing?

    Also, if Bwonsamdi can ferry (at least) the souls of Zandalari to the Other Side then why do we have Zandalari souls in the Maw?
    He clearly demonstated that he doesn't care how bad a soul actually is, he just takes them: examples are Zalazane and the witch troll from Shadow's Rising.
    Those souls had to go through Oribos like the rest of the souls so why didn't Bwonsamdi take those as well?

    I came to the theory that Bwonsamdi might have a deal with the Arbiter that allows him to do this.
    What would the Arbiter gain from such a deal?
    The Winter Queen is rather antagonistic to Bwonsamdi for apparently no reason. Could it be because she is "jealous" that he has a direct deal with the Arbiter so he can take whatever soul he wants to?

    I think this would be rather interesting to deal with in-game but it's quite obvious that Bwonsamdi is not a big player in the lore (sadly).

  2. #2
    I thought that all trolls in his pocket dimension don't pass through oribos. You have that temple of bwomsamdi thingy in Nazmir with a very big gate at the end with troll spirits passing through. I think he funnels them to his pocket dimension before they pass infront of the arbiter. He also stated that it costs him a lot of power to protect all the trolls from going into the maw, as he personally ferries them to the afterlive.

    Winter Queen being antagonistic might be becase Bwonsamdi tries to live outside of the machinery of death by doing this. And thus breaking the laws created by the first ones.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by NabyBro View Post
    Also, if Bwonsamdi can ferry (at least) the souls of Zandalari to the Other Side then why do we have Zandalari souls in the Maw?
    Those are Zandalari that died before he made the Pakt with the Troll King. Before that they were not his business unless they were worshippers of his cult in the first place.

    Quote Originally Posted by NabyBro View Post
    The Winter Queen is rather antagonistic to Bwonsamdi for apparently no reason.
    The reason because he's a rather annoying low level entity that thinks he's more important that he actually is. (A lot like his annoying fandom here)

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Drynix View Post
    I thought that all trolls in his pocket dimension don't pass through oribos. You have that temple of bwomsamdi thingy in Nazmir with a very big gate at the end with troll spirits passing through. I think he funnels them to his pocket dimension before they pass infront of the arbiter. He also stated that it costs him a lot of power to protect all the trolls from going into the maw, as he personally ferries them to the afterlive.

    Winter Queen being antagonistic might be becase Bwonsamdi tries to live outside of the machinery of death by doing this. And thus breaking the laws created by the first ones.
    Yea, but this is the thing.

    We can clearly see that Bwonsamdi is not remotely powerful enough to just break the whole cycle by himself.
    The Winter Queen is also clearly aware of him and the Other Side. She is an avid keeper of the cycle and would just swarm and destroy Bwonsamdi for breaking death like she did with the Drust invasion.

    There is no way Bwonsamdi is just allowed to do this while Titan level being are just like "okay, alrite, it is what it is".

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Plehnard View Post
    Those are Zandalari that died before he made the Pakt with the Troll King. Before that they were not his business unless they were worshippers of his cult in the first place.



    The reason because he's a rather annoying low level entity that thinks he's more important that he actually is. (A lot like his annoying fandom here)
    Even if Rastakhan had a pact with Bwonsamdi that doesn't mean that the Winter Queen or the Arbiter would just allow souls randomly be taken by him.

    The Winter Queen barely tolerates Bwonsamdi, why would she care about the pact of an Azerothian troll king?

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by NabyBro View Post
    How can Bwonsamdi directly ferry souls to the Other Side in the first place?
    It is stated in lore that the Kyrians put everyone before the Arbiter who judges and sends them off.
    How does Bwonsamdi have the power to ferry Zandalari AND EVEN LOA (Torga) to the Other Side like it's nothing?
    There's a world quest in Bastion that has you "train" to judge if a soul needs to go to the Shadowlands or not.
    In this world quest, I have seen that they say "Oh Everyone, even this cute little dog, is equal and have to accept their fate and be judged". But then there was a Valkyr, I think, and then they say something along the lines of "Oh but they have their own thing, we don't take them". Or a demon and then it's said that "this one's soul will go back to the twisting nether" or something.

    It's my believe that not "ALL" souls go to the arbiter. The "ALL" is just "ALL the souls that haven't got their own little thing".

    Vrykul, Demons and those that worship Bwonsamdi seem to fall under that rule.

    Quote Originally Posted by NabyBro View Post
    Also, if Bwonsamdi can ferry (at least) the souls of Zandalari to the Other Side then why do we have Zandalari souls in the Maw?
    Bwonsamdi isn't a racist. He doesn't take care for your soul just because you're a Zandalari Troll or just because you're not a Zandalari Troll. The Darkspear Trolls also worship bwonsamdi. The Tortolan / Sethralis also worship Loas. In De Other Side, we see that even Gnomes can make a deal with him.

    The Troll souls in the Maw are Trolls that didn't worship Bwonsamdi. And Kyrian's just don't ferry souls that have aren't destined to be judged.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by De Maffe View Post
    There's a world quest in Bastion that has you "train" to judge if a soul needs to go to the Shadowlands or not.
    In this world quest, I have seen that they say "Oh Everyone, even this cute little dog, is equal and have to accept their fate and be judged". But then there was a Valkyr, I think, and then they say something along the lines of "Oh but they have their own thing, we don't take them". Or a demon and then it's said that "this one's soul will go back to the twisting nether" or something.

    It's my believe that not "ALL" souls go to the arbiter. The "ALL" is just "ALL the souls that haven't got their own little thing".

    Vrykul, Demons and those that worship Bwonsamdi seem to fall under that rule.



    Bwonsamdi isn't a racist. He doesn't take care for your soul just because you're a Zandalari Troll or just because you're not a Zandalari Troll. The Darkspear Trolls also worship bwonsamdi. The Tortolan / Sethralis also worship Loas. In De Other Side, we see that even Gnomes can make a deal with him.

    The Troll souls in the Maw are Trolls that didn't worship Bwonsamdi. And Kyrian's just don't ferry souls that have aren't destined to be judged.
    Val'kyr and demons are not mortal souls. Obviously they cannot be judged by the Arbiter.

    Vrykul souls are being taken BEFORE they enter the Shadowlands. The Halls of Valor is not in the Shadowlands.

    But the Other Side is. And zandalari souls are regular mortals.
    And no, Bwonsamdi does not just take his followers' souls. We literally gave him every Blood Troll soul in Nazmir while we quested there, that was our deal with him, and the Blood Trolls actively tried to kill Bwonsamdi, the opposite of worshipping.

    He literally does and says so in Shadow's Rising. He saved the Zandalari specifically.

    Making a deal with Bwonsamdi and worshipping him is not the same thing.
    Also, those gnomes are not in "the Other Side". We go to Mechagon with a big portal to take the borrowed power back from them (if you ever wondered what tht big white circle is around the door).

  7. #7
    going through the kyrian/arbiter is just the default method.

    it's possible to create portals between the shadowlands and other planes that bypass the default method. night fae have one, kyrians obviously have them, bwonsamdi has them, the light/void have them, even we made two: in icecrown and oribos.

    so just like halls of valor, the souls are probably just ignored by kyrians like they do for a dozen reasons or snatched up before a kyrian shows up, and then taken to the shadowlands by bwonsamdis private portal.

    bwonsamdi really really isn't the only one pulling this. kyrians will deem your soul "not ready" to meet the arbiter for all kinds of stupid reasons, like being undead, being a child, needing vengeance, etc. and then ofc tons of souls are taken by the light/void/fel/soul shards/whathave you that apparently kyrians can't/won't do anything about even though they probably should.

    honestly if kyrians were good at their job half the magic in the universe wouldn't work and half the evil beings wouldn't exist. e.g. just imagine what would have happened if some kyrian decided to collect arthas soul from frostmourne the moment he picked up the sword.
    Last edited by Hellobolis; 2021-02-11 at 04:29 PM.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by NabyBro View Post
    How can Bwonsamdi directly ferry souls to the Other Side in the first place?
    The same way everybody else can ferry off souls elsewhere. You don't need to be strong, you just need to beat the Kyrians to the punch. Also, they don't take anybody already claimed by something or someone else, regardless of who that is.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by NabyBro View Post
    How can Bwonsamdi directly ferry souls to the Other Side in the first place?
    Odyn was/is able to do that and Helya as well.

  10. #10
    Bwonsamdi, while having immense power and influence within the afterlife as a whole, comes off as relatively small potatoes within the grand scheme of the Shadowlands.

  11. #11
    Herald of the Titans
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    Quote Originally Posted by NabyBro View Post
    Okay, so hear me out.
    I've been thinking about this for a long time and there is something off with the Other Side.

    Please be noted:
    I did not find anything specific regarding this in-game (did the whole Night Fae scenario aswell) so if there is a quest or something that explains this then consider everything I just said null and void.

    So, according to the established lore the Other Side is Bwonsamdi's pocket dimension in Ardenweald.
    He can personally ferry souls there and summon them whenever and whereever he wants to.
    He demonstrated this in BfA (summoning Torga, giving back Rastakhan's spirit when he first died to Rezan) and in Shadow's Rising where he summoned Rastakhan for a brief period for Talanji to talk to.
    He also summoned a bunch of Zandalari "undead" during the Battle of Dazar'alor.

    Now here's the thing:

    How can Bwonsamdi directly ferry souls to the Other Side in the first place?
    It is stated in lore that the Kyrians put everyone before the Arbiter who judges and sends them off.
    How does Bwonsamdi have the power to ferry Zandalari AND EVEN LOA (Torga) to the Other Side like it's nothing?

    Also, if Bwonsamdi can ferry (at least) the souls of Zandalari to the Other Side then why do we have Zandalari souls in the Maw?
    He clearly demonstated that he doesn't care how bad a soul actually is, he just takes them: examples are Zalazane and the witch troll from Shadow's Rising.
    Those souls had to go through Oribos like the rest of the souls so why didn't Bwonsamdi take those as well?

    I came to the theory that Bwonsamdi might have a deal with the Arbiter that allows him to do this.
    What would the Arbiter gain from such a deal?
    The Winter Queen is rather antagonistic to Bwonsamdi for apparently no reason. Could it be because she is "jealous" that he has a direct deal with the Arbiter so he can take whatever soul he wants to?

    I think this would be rather interesting to deal with in-game but it's quite obvious that Bwonsamdi is not a big player in the lore (sadly).
    In case you haven’t notice, we been ferrying souls all expansion through a soul crystal that we got from npcs.
    There are clearly ways around the kyrians.

  12. #12
    Loa of Death Bwonsamdi the Dead's Avatar
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    Maybe whatever power Mueh'zala blessed him with allowed him to bypass the Arbiter? Also the Arbiter is a soulless/emotionless robot. Can't see her acknowleging him

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by NabyBro View Post
    to deal with in-game but it's quite obvious that Bwonsamdi is not a big player in the lore (sadly).
    True, but I think this is a good thing. He has a much lower chance of getting killed off

    Also, I think the Winter Queen might've been his ex lol

    Another day, another Deal....

  13. #13
    Immortal Soon-TM's Avatar
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    Much like in RL, there seems to be an official channel for importing souls to the SL, aka the Kyrians, and several... ahem, unofficial ones, aka smuggling.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bwonsamdi the Dead View Post
    I think the Winter Queen might've been his ex lol
    Maybe that explains the lady's cold demeanour towards him LMAO
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    The Jailer's first ever appearance involved chucking him [Baine] off a cliff for being too shit to even qualify as a Maw trash mob.

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