TBC Attunements

[AeneasBK]

In my experience once people no longer need anything from T5 they don't want to go back, Kael/Vashj are both more difficult than most T6 bosses and the worse part is all the trash clearing, the need to fully clear the raids just to get to Kael/Vashj which is needed for the attunements. I've seen players refuse to go back there, fake dc, not show up on those nights, I saw it in my own guilds and I've heard other people speaking about the same experiences. Pugging will be more popular in Classic though, that is the one difference.

And just so I'm not confusing you with anyone else, this is experience from more recent TBC private servers, rather than your experiences in TBC 14 years ago or w/e it was, right?

Heroic Shattered halls is also probably the least popular dungeon and required for attunement including the speed run (saving the prisoner), people often avoid it like the plague making group building a slow process once the herd has got the attunement quests done, people farming badges tend to flock to the easier dungeons like Slave Pens, Durnholde, Underbog etc.

I'm not trying to dispute anything you're saying here (other than Durnholde being one of the easier ones ) but on the yard stick of "If I managed it back then it really couldn't have actually been that hard" I'm not sure the running SH part is going to be a hurdle. Once Paladin tanks had t4 that place was piss easy*

*again, on the metric of "If I could do it, anyone can" - I started in TBC and was still pretty clueless at the end of Wrath

[Diabloish]

And just so I'm not confusing you with anyone else, this is experience from more recent TBC private servers, rather than your experiences in TBC 14 years ago or w/e it was, right?



I'm not trying to dispute anything you're saying here (other than Durnholde being one of the easier ones ) but on the yard stick of "If I managed it back then it really couldn't have actually been that hard" I'm not sure the running SH part is going to be a hurdle. Once Paladin tanks had t4 that place was piss easy*

*again, on the metric of "If I could do it, anyone can" - I started in TBC and was still pretty clueless at the end of Wrath

Yeah I’m not sure what servers this guy has played on, but from my experience shattered halls is actually really really popular BECAUSE of the speed run aspect of this. Not to mention you don’t even need a big Paladin tank anymore to really do this dungeon. I know a lot of people are going to hate this if you hate min/maxing but a lot of mages are more than likely going to be frost from the start of tbc and it’s because of what they do in these dungeons.

The old days was Paladin tanks pulling everything and just face tanking all the mobs and ooming the healers as the whole group scrambled to aoe them all down.

Well, the meta I have seen is that mage will go a semi aoe spec similar to classic, and they pull this whole room and basically slow and aoe the whole room down and the tank will kite the mobs while taking no damage and just taunting in case a mob gets through.

[Bigbazz]

And just so I'm not confusing you with anyone else, this is experience from more recent TBC private servers, rather than your experiences in TBC 14 years ago or w/e it was, right?



I'm not trying to dispute anything you're saying here (other than Durnholde being one of the easier ones ) but on the yard stick of "If I managed it back then it really couldn't have actually been that hard" I'm not sure the running SH part is going to be a hurdle. Once Paladin tanks had t4 that place was piss easy*

*again, on the metric of "If I could do it, anyone can" - I started in TBC and was still pretty clueless at the end of Wrath

I did both I raided all the way through TBC and then I again experienced it on private servers and got heavily involved with that, playing with some of the best private server (and now classic) players. I had 2 guilds in TBC die because of the T5-T6 attunement conundrum with recruitment and I ended up just funnelling upwards to the top end guilds as they sucked up our best players, and this was happening to a lot of guilds, player poaching was a massive thing and when your guild dies you either quit or you move up.

Then what happened on private servers? Our guild died shortly after clearing T5 as our guild leader left to join a higher rank guild in preparation for T6 and so our roster mostly ended up in one of the 2 top guilds, myself included, while many just quit. Meanwhile, a lot of newer or slightly lower players got stuck in limbo because of attunements when their guilds didn't make it through T5. Then because interest in the game was waining (player burnout) it was hard for guilds to keep up with recruiting while also having to do T5 attunements for recruits. Essentially if you forced people back into T5 it to attune new players it would push them over the edge because they were at a point where they wanted to log in once a week, clear T6 and then log out.

So you lose 2 players from burnout/whatever, you gotta recruit and if you don't poach from another guild you're probably looking at players who are skilled enough, geared enough, but haven't killed Fathom Lord/KT/Vashj. What happened is guilds just poached from other guilds, then those guilds slowly faded out, gobled up.

In summary : I'm not saying this will be a big problem on TBC Classic, but I'm just saying it was a problem in TBC and it was a problem on the Private Servers, to the extent where just removing attunements made life infinitely easier for guilds to recruit. Attunements early in expansion are completely fine, but it becomes a big enough chore later on to cause real problems. Will it happen again? We will see.

Yeah I’m not sure what servers this guy has played on, but from my experience shattered halls is actually really really popular BECAUSE of the speed run aspect of this

By the time you can reliably speedfarm SH with a Paladin that attunement quest isn't even required any more, but even then Shattered Halls is a less popular dungeon, you've little reason to go there if you're that geared. The big demand for badges comes in at Sunwell level (or Zul Aman if you want, but a lot of that is garbage), completely different phase of the expansion and the point at which all attunements are removed anyway.

[Nobleshield]

I like Attunements from what I have seen (didn't play in BC but I've heard a lot). I do think having them account wide would be good, or tied to the guild somehow so if you lose people you don't need to stop progression and go back a tier or two to re-attune people, but they are not a bad idea overall.

[czarek]

Makieng attunement for the 1st time is quite cool. But repetaing same on X char is just pain in the as$.

[pinkz]

The possible return of TBC also means the return of attunements. How do you feel about this? I love the attunements and I personally believe Blizzard should never have taken this away. I can understand why some competitive guilds are more or less okay with this, due to the difficulty of recruiting players. Always have to redo the attunements. But that's part of the game and part of the challenge.

On the other hand, the last patches of TBC remove one by one the required attunements of each raid. Even the attunements for heroic dungeons...

Personally, being a fan of attunements, I would like them to stay in place throughout TBC. How do you feel about this?

https://wowwiki-archive.fandom.com/w...rning_Crusade)

attunements were removed on older content due to complaints in WOTLK, by new players as well as veteran van wow/tbc players regarding achievements on fresh DKs, and alts being gated. in CATA tmog complaints would have gotten them axed, BC has no achieve or tmog system to advocate the removal

[Demithio]

The possible return of TBC also means the return of attunements. How do you feel about this? I love the attunements and I personally believe Blizzard should never have taken this away. I can understand why some competitive guilds are more or less okay with this, due to the difficulty of recruiting players. Always have to redo the attunements. But that's part of the game and part of the challenge.

On the other hand, the last patches of TBC remove one by one the required attunements of each raid. Even the attunements for heroic dungeons...

Personally, being a fan of attunements, I would like them to stay in place throughout TBC. How do you feel about this?

https://wowwiki-archive.fandom.com/w...rning_Crusade)

I agree. The big argument against attunements was that you help player X get all these attunements and then he or she quit a week later. However, I found it a fun part of the game none the less. It gave us an excuse to go do something, and added to the game content. It seems that some people don't realize that this sort of "inconvenience" is part of the overall MMORPG experience. Warts and all.

[A Chozo]

Everyone who likes TBC also likes it's respective attunements (which were a big part of it's endgame) so I'm ok with them being back. It wouldn't be TBC without them, similar to how it isn't Classic with the world buffs.

[Demithio]

I imagine you being sarcastic - I also imagine (and know from this forum) that there are pretty vocal people who are serious

-the horror of levelling "How will I cope"
-the horror of regaining reputations (very real in TBC attunements..you need to run normal 5 mans for at least 4 factions to revered to unlock the heroic versions for the attunement quest chains) - and this is where I can already quit my argument and my examples. Because if in today's mentality levelling is "a chore", THAT is a deal breaker.

"How will I cope". People just won't. Not in retail of 2021

TBC wasn't for lightweights. The "retailers" need to stay in retail collecting mounts and pets.

[Zka]

Kara attunement is fine - gives a good reason to grind 5mans extensively and weeds out the worst idiots. Other attunements aren't as good, raids are hard to pug if you don't have a bunch of friends.
The more I think about it the more I think T5+ attunements should be removed to improve the game experience. (for nochanges trolls: they have been removed mid-expansion. Later on even Kara attunement was removed)

[Kralljin]

The more I think about it the more I think T5+ attunements should be removed to improve the game experience. (for nochanges trolls: they have been removed mid-expansion. Later on even Kara attunement was removed)

The T5 attunements aren't a huge problem either.

SSC:
Kill Gruul
Kill Nightbane

That's not exactly hard.

TK:
Clear Arcatraz Heroic
Clear SL / Steamvault Heroic
Clear Shattered Halls Heroic on a timer
Kill Magtheridon

Bit more of a pain, but the heroic portion isn't exactly difficult, considering that you only need four people to help you, Mag is also done quickly by any competent guild.

T6 Attunements are the ones broke the camels back, clearing all of SSC / TK is just a massive pain due to insane amounts trash.

[RobertMugabe]

Everyone who likes TBC also likes it's respective attunements (which were a big part of it's endgame) so I'm ok with them being back. It wouldn't be TBC without them, similar to how it isn't Classic with the world buffs.

You got us in the first half

[Zka]

T6 Attunements are the ones broke the camels back, clearing all of SSC / TK is just a massive pain due to insane amounts trash.

Thanks, you are right. I must have misremembered it. T5 attunements are indeed pretty puggable and should not be a big problem.

[Nutri]

I thought the BC attunements were fun. And iirc, they weren't that difficult.

Well they weren't difficult perse, you could do a lot of stuff yourself, the only time consuming thing (talking BT attunement) was that whenever you took in a trial that hadn't done the SSC/TK raids and their attunement requirements, you'd had to either sacrifice a raid night to go there or do an additional raid to get them done (but luckily the T5 gear was still good enough to use in T6, so it wasn't always complete waste).

One trail need 24 people to boost, so to speak. What I remember from the Kara attunement is that you had to do a complete world-tour of dungeons. Fun the first time, not so much the others. Can't recall the SSC or TK attunements but I believe it was a lot of dungeon-ing.

But as others said, I wouldn't mind getting attunements back on the condition they will be account wide. They did add flavor.

[riptal]

The T5 attunements aren't a huge problem either.

SSC:
Kill Gruul
Kill Nightbane

That's not exactly hard.

TK:
Clear Arcatraz Heroic
Clear SL / Steamvault Heroic
Clear Shattered Halls Heroic on a timer
Kill Magtheridon

Bit more of a pain, but the heroic portion isn't exactly difficult, considering that you only need four people to help you, Mag is also done quickly by any competent guild.

T6 Attunements are the ones broke the camels back, clearing all of SSC / TK is just a massive pain due to insane amounts trash.

You just forget a little detail. To enter heroic dungeons you need keys! You need to grind rep for those keys. That can be painful for those who plays retail and used to just enter everywhere without any requirement other than some gear levels.

[clevin]

In my experience once people no longer need anything from T5 they don't want to go back, Kael/Vashj are both more difficult than most T6 bosses and the worse part is all the trash clearing, the need to fully clear the raids just to get to Kael/Vashj which is needed for the attunements. I've seen players refuse to go back there, fake dc, not show up on those nights, I saw it in my own guilds and I've heard other people speaking about the same experiences. Pugging will be more popular in Classic though, that is the one difference.

Yeah this was a real problem, esp as you got further into T6. Oh one of the tanks left? And we recruited someone new? Fuck, now we have to clear T5 AGAIN....

Heroic Shattered halls is also probably the least popular dungeon and required for attunement including the speed run (saving the prisoner), people often avoid it like the plague making group building a slow process once the herd has got the attunement quests done, people farming badges tend to flock to the easier dungeons like Slave Pens, Durnholde, Underbog etc.

So, I loved this place. The key is taking a) a pally tank and b) DPS who can CC, know how to and will. Things like the gauntlet are terrible without CC when you're doing it at the gear level its designed for. Some hunter NPC will distracting shot your healer and... boom. Mages are good, as are rogues for things like Blind and Kidney shot in combat. It's a pushover once you're geared in T4 or better.

- - - Updated - - -

You just forget a little detail. To enter heroic dungeons you need keys! You need to grind rep for those keys. That can be painful for those who plays retail and used to just enter everywhere without any requirement other than some gear levels.

That shouldn't be an issue by time T5 comes around.

[Kralljin]

You just forget a little detail. To enter heroic dungeons you need keys! You need to grind rep for those keys. That can be painful for those who plays retail and used to just enter everywhere without any requirement other than some gear levels.

Keys aren't a huge issue unless you want a whole plethora of alts within a short timeframe.

Revered isn't too difficult to achieve, especially for factions where you can get honored just by questing.
People managed to do the Ony attunement, the T5 attunement is longer but can be combined with the gearing process.

Of course, if you want to raidlog from week one, get Karazhan attunement and then just farm Karazhan until you're ready for T5, that won't work.

[Jigga93]

TBC wasn't for lightweights. The "retailers" need to stay in retail collecting mounts and pets.

BC wasn't hard either. get that shit outta here

[un_known]

The T5 attunements aren't a huge problem either.

SSC:
Kill Gruul
Kill Nightbane

That's not exactly hard.

TK:
Clear Arcatraz Heroic
Clear SL / Steamvault Heroic
Clear Shattered Halls Heroic on a timer
Kill Magtheridon

Bit more of a pain, but the heroic portion isn't exactly difficult, considering that you only need four people to help you, Mag is also done quickly by any competent guild.

T6 Attunements are the ones broke the camels back, clearing all of SSC / TK is just a massive pain due to insane amounts trash.

i think the one where most will wave the white flag will be the karazhan attunement/nightbane attunement, i mean getting the key to shadowlabs... np there just do setthek halls and loot the key! Steam vaults? no attunement needed!

however....

Arcatraz

clear netherstorm quests
get arca key quest
learn flying
complete botanica
complete mechanar
enter arca

and even then! to even get access to nightbane:
be honored with violet eye
do quests inside karazhan
kill shade of aran (GG if you've already killed him that reset and have to wait until wed)
camp bone fragment on a 7 min spawn timer
get honored with lower city to get HC key!
sethekk halls HC
GG now you can summon nightbane.

[Bigbazz]

So, I loved this place. The key is taking a) a pally tank and b) DPS who can CC, know how to and will. Things like the gauntlet are terrible without CC when you're doing it at the gear level its designed for. Some hunter NPC will distracting shot your healer and... boom. Mages are good, as are rogues for things like Blind and Kidney shot in combat. It's a pushover once you're geared in T4 or better..

I think it will be fine for the guilds initially doing it, I just think it will be tough for those a little late to the party. In my experience not a lot of people run Shattered Halls on Heroic for badges, and while geared experienced groups in T4 will be completely fine I'm just not expecting many T4 players to go back there often and be pugging.

I think of it a little like the retail situation with pugs and RIO now, the people late to the party are screwed because they can't get into groups and are stuck trying to progress. I don't suspect we will be seeing a tonne of Shattered Halls runs once the majority of people are attuned, guilds will have to help attune players as most pugs will avoid the dungeon and go elsewhere. The pug groups that do form of a "suspect" skill/experience/gear level are likely going to fail hard at saving the prisoner, resulting in a lot of frustration.

I cant remember when that attunement quest requirment is removed though. I absolutely don't expect it to be a problem for guilds at the start, so perhaps by the time this is relevant it will no longer be a requirement. ZA patch is when badge farming gets big, the attunement may be gone by then.