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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Mlangs View Post
    Read they were reintroducing valor points and got excited, thought I might resub. Then I read what these “Valor” points actually are and....

    Is it so hard for them to bring back badge gear? Something to work towards weekly like back in BC or Wrath? I understand “this game is not that game” but it works wonderfully in Final Fantasy. I unsubbed because I couldn’t deal with the toxicity of random M+ play this expac, too much going on lately but without that and with just Raid Finder there’s not much else to feel like you’re actually progressing your gear. A weekly capped badge system with a vendor would be a HUGE carrot on a stick. Doesn’t need to be the best gear, maybe normal Raid level as it was historically.

    Seriously, have they ever mentioned why they completely ignore this concept that they themselves initially used?

    *Unable to post on the official forums since I don’t have a sub
    i actually think they are partly right with this idea. by having these badges added and using them to upgrade dungeon pieces, it will make any piece of loot feel more rewarding to get. that said, gear drops are still minimal and super rng based. there NEEDS to be a base version for available for purchase along with the upgrades as a bad luck protection mechanic. this ensures steady gearing.

  2. #22
    Light comes from darkness shise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mlangs View Post
    “this game is not that game”
    That, right there, is the problem. It is not, and it should be instead of the shit systems this new people have developed.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Echocho View Post
    Yes it would be great for casuals and alts to run a few daily heroics and LFR, cap your points and slowly buy your way to a set of great gear. Like you said it works wonderfully in FFXIV and it used to work wonderfully in WoW.

    Back in WotLK for example. You got the second best quality gear slowly but surely. Now we have the covenant campaign and that just ends. Casuals are left without a satisfying long term gameplay loop with something to work towards.

    But no if casuals can get good gear too the key pushers, raiders and rankers lose their special snowflake feeling, Blizzard losing subs to FFXIV be damned.
    In Wrath, outside of the first tier, valor gear (and later emblems of frost) capped at 2-4 slots of the next best gear.

    You couldn’t farm anything even closely resembling a full set of the next best gear over time for casuals.

    And the better badges, if you weren’t raiding, were limited to 2 per day from the daily heroic quest, while items cost 60-90 badges each.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Argorwal View Post
    In Wrath, outside of the first tier, valor gear (and later emblems of frost) capped at 2-4 slots of the next best gear.

    You couldn’t farm anything even closely resembling a full set of the next best gear over time for casuals.

    And the better badges, if you weren’t raiding, were limited to 2 per day from the daily heroic quest, while items cost 60-90 badges each.
    You can go back to the vendors in Dalaran and check for yourself. There were a lot more than 4 pieces. And then you had crafting and BOEs to help you complete your gear.

  5. #25
    Badge gear doesn't scale. It's good for catchup gear, but if you're above it already, it's literally a vendor you will never visit. The system they implemented scales, so that even at higher levels you can maybe get something out of it.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by ellieg View Post
    If you want normal raid quality gear, that's practically what the 197 ilvl covenant gear is. Thar cov gear is more than enough to do everything but the highest content.
    More than enough to get into a random bg and get one shot. Joy of joys, such enough, much fun

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Cyranis View Post
    More than enough to get into a random bg and get one shot. Joy of joys, such enough, much fun
    There's other players in there prob less geared than you if you're 197 ilvl. And ppl that do harder content, should have better gear, and should be stronger than you. Its an rpg

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Echocho View Post
    You can go back to the vendors in Dalaran and check for yourself. There were a lot more than 4 pieces. And then you had crafting and BOEs to help you complete your gear.
    What’s funny is CN has the most BoEs of a raid in a long time and it seems to be universally disliked.

    264 (normal 25 or 10 heroic) used emblems of frost.

    You could buy:

    Waist
    Gloves
    Chest
    Back
    Trinket
    If you were a class that needed a sigil it had those

    5 items, one which could potentially conflict with your tier set, and you could only buy the 251 tier set not 264.

    https://wowwiki-archive.fandom.com/wiki/Emblem_of_Frost

    And if you weren’t raiding (aka casual) you were limited to 2 badges per day from the daily heroic and items cost 50, 60, or 90.

    Hey, only 45 straight days of doing a daily heroic to buy 1 item!
    Last edited by Argorwal; 2021-02-12 at 10:37 PM.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Fkiolaris View Post
    Not only that, but WotLK and Cata gave new heroic dungeons per tier with higher level gear that you could form a group with friends and farm if liked.

    As already said by others, for the casual playerbase there is no downside to having gear bought by valour in the way it has been in this exact game in the past (ie weekly cap on VPs, VPs from all sorts of activities, availability of 2-piece tier only, can also be used for upgrades)..
    WotLK and Cata also didn't have 4 raid difficulties, mythic dungeons, world quests, covenants, m+, torghast legendaries, etc. There are a billion ways to get gear now if you are a casual player, there is no need for a badge vendor.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Argorwal View Post
    What’s funny is CN has the most BoEs of a raid in a long time and it seems to be universally disliked.

    264 (normal 25 or 10 heroic) used emblems of frost.

    You could buy:

    Waist
    Gloves
    Chest
    Back
    Trinket
    If you were a class that needed a sigil it had those

    5 items, one which could potentially conflict with your tier set, and you could only buy the 251 tier set not 264.

    https://wowwiki-archive.fandom.com/wiki/Emblem_of_Frost

    And if you weren’t raiding (aka casual) you were limited to 2 badges per day from the daily heroic and items cost 50, 60, or 90.

    Hey, only 45 straight days of doing a daily heroic to buy 1 item!
    Why would you need raid gear if you aren't raiding? Of course it would take a long time if you literally only did a daily 5 man.

  10. #30
    Legendary! HeatherRae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fkiolaris View Post
    Not only that, but WotLK and Cata gave new heroic dungeons per tier with higher level gear that you could form a group with friends and farm if liked.

    As already said by others, for the casual playerbase there is no downside to having gear bought by valour in the way it has been in this exact game in the past (ie weekly cap on VPs, VPs from all sorts of activities, availability of 2-piece tier only, can also be used for upgrades)..
    I honestly think that introducing new dungeons each tier with higher ilvl gear that follows the new raid tiers would go further than almost anything else to keep the casual playerbase happy.
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  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by HeatherRae View Post
    I honestly think that introducing new dungeons each tier with higher ilvl gear that follows the new raid tiers would go further than almost anything else to keep the casual playerbase happy.

    You’re not wrong there. I was just thinking the other day how crazy it is they go an entire expansion cycle and not add any. I suppose Kara was reintroduced but outside of that...I mean the after launch dungeons of Wrath were some of the best.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Fkiolaris View Post
    Not only that, but WotLK and Cata gave new heroic dungeons per tier with higher level gear that you could form a group with friends and farm if liked.

    As already said by others, for the casual playerbase there is no downside to having gear bought by valour in the way it has been in this exact game in the past (ie weekly cap on VPs, VPs from all sorts of activities, availability of 2-piece tier only, can also be used for upgrades)..
    There was one dungeon introduced with ToC and 3 really sweet dungeons added with ICC but IIRC they were only really good for trinkets and weapons. For the most part the best dungeons to run were the ones from release which gearing had made ultra-faceroll.

    Cata only gave one new dungeon and it sucked.

    Although the main reason for not having Valor give gear to casuals is the fact we can get the gear from LFR or solo/world/Covenant content. The biggest problem is the big delay in LFR opening up means that most of the gear is already too low iLvl compared to the Covenant set.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spaceboytg View Post
    I've lately come to the opinion that the playerbase is far less casual than we've all been assuming. Most 'casual' players, IMO, have already been run off to the point where they now make up a small, silent minority of players. The game is aimed at and designed for the more mid-core player ... someone who runs decently high m+ keys and heroic raiding at least. If you look at Blizzard decisions with that proportion in mind then more of their design decisions make sense.
    Most of my guild just do casual content - LFR, Maw, Torghast and the odd dungeon. There are a few who push some middling Mythics but pretty much none who do any "proper" raiding.

  13. #33
    The Insane Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    When currencies were being used people complained that they were the main way to get loot and they'd rather pick it up from bosses.
    Nobody complained at this. Seriously this is the dumbest complaint. First the badge vendor never covered every slot. Secondly it was a slow burn you'd still get more gear by actually going to the raid. 3rdly the bosses never stopped dropping gear if they were really butt hurt about the vendor they could have just not used it. All these fucking people who supposedly complained were getting their daily frost badge and buying up vendor loot as soon as they could.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    Whatever they do someone will give us "mindless QQ," we need badge gear, we hate badge gear, get rid of Titanforging, give back Titanforging, let us use badges instead of Titanforging...
    What Blizz have to do is listen to all the mindless QQ, watch how people play the game and try to make decisions so they listen to the mindless QQ that gets people playing.
    well the developers clearly have opinions about how the game ought to reward people they are also unfortunately completely reactionary as well. I can't blame them for being reactionary its a business but their decisions aways seem to be made that favor one group or another or one form.of content or another. Thats why I favor badge systems it makes all content more reward equitable. Same gear same goal multiple ways to do.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post

    Although the main reason for not having Valor give gear to casuals is the fact we can get the gear from LFR or solo/world/Covenant content. The biggest problem is the big delay in LFR opening up means that most of the gear is already too low iLvl compared to the Covenant set.
    They don't seem to be learning on this (or they just like it as it is) because it was an issue from even way back in MoP, where by the time you unlocked the vendors behind reps, never mind getting the rep for the items they were selling, you were way past their ilevel even as a casual like myself so the items were useless.


    Quote Originally Posted by cherb View Post
    WotLK and Cata also didn't have 4 raid difficulties, mythic dungeons, world quests, covenants, m+, torghast legendaries, etc. There are a billion RNG ways to get gear now if you are a casual player, there is no need for a badge vendor.
    There, I highlighted the difference to you, in case it wasn't obvious

  15. #35
    The Insane Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fkiolaris View Post
    They don't seem to be learning on this (or they just like it as it is) because it was an issue from even way back in MoP, where by the time you unlocked the vendors behind reps, never mind getting the rep for the items they were selling, you were way past their ilevel even as a casual like myself so the items were useless.



    Yes! I remember this in MOP because it coincided with their decision to not have dungeons reward rep the tabards got gutted. They later added the champion thing after people bitched but they basically gutted the crap out of the rewards. The items you get from REP grinds have been fairly useless for awhile now. Although they didn't make that mistake with the renown crap.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    Cata only gave one new dungeon and it sucked.
    Dragon Soul came with 3 attendant dungeons. Endtime, Well of Eternity and Hour of Twilight. Cata also brought back Zul Aman and Zul Gurub as 5 mans.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by HeatherRae View Post
    I honestly think that introducing new dungeons each tier with higher ilvl gear that follows the new raid tiers would go further than almost anything else to keep the casual playerbase happy.
    That was never that great. You ended up running the same 2-3 dungeons ad. nauseam. The way they do it now by keep all dungeons relevant is fine by me.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    Most of my guild just do casual content - LFR, Maw, Torghast and the odd dungeon. There are a few who push some middling Mythics but pretty much none who do any "proper" raiding.
    Sure, casuals still exist in WoW. I'm just saying I don't think we're some great, silent, majority that the game should be designed around. If we're going by anecdotal evidence then my guild is filled with people pushing keys, aiming for heroic CN, and such ... while still being quite social. They're definitely not hardcore, but I wouldn't consider them casual like me either. I don't touch M+ or any raid higher than LFR.

    I'm quite convinced that people like me are a minority, the game is just too much not designed for my playstyle at all. Heroic dungeons and LFR and world content are all utterly unrewarding and they absolutely refuse to create badge gear that can be attained by content like Heroic dungeons like it used to be in MoP. As the WoW population has dwindled they have gone further and further away from design that benefits the casual player. I believe that they wanted the mid-core/hardcore players and made a conscious decision to shed the casuals since they were leaving anyway.
    Shut your goddamn mouth, Gene!

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Mlangs View Post
    SNIP
    Well, I would rather get a 210 drop and then upgrade it than buy 184 and spend more to upgrade it to max.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by shise View Post
    That, right there, is the problem. It is not, and it should be instead of the shit systems this new people have developed.
    Nice opinion. But have you considered just playing other games that aren't WoW instead of whining on forums how WoW isn't another game?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spaceboytg View Post
    I'm quite convinced that people like me are a minority, the game is just too much not designed for my playstyle at all. Heroic dungeons and LFR and world content are all utterly unrewarding and they absolutely refuse to create badge gear that can be attained by content like Heroic dungeons like it used to be in MoP. As the WoW population has dwindled they have gone further and further away from design that benefits the casual player. I believe that they wanted the mid-core/hardcore players and made a conscious decision to shed the casuals since they were leaving anyway.
    "Casuals are leaving" as evidenced by all the internal data Blizzard shares with random internet forum posters for the specific intent of propping up ridiculous arguments.

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