Why not badge gear?

[Tadkins]

There's other players in there prob less geared than you if you're 197 ilvl. And ppl that do harder content, should have better gear, and should be stronger than you. Its an rpg

What is the point of trying to PvP or turn warmode on if you're not a high key runner or mythic raider in that case? If there's no chance of ever getting better gear to stand up to your opponents. Unless you're a masochist who loves getting beaten up of course. In that instance my only hope would be that the ones giving the beatings are all female characters in black leather transmogs, lol.

[ellieg]

What is the point of trying to PvP or turn warmode on if you're not a high key runner or mythic raider in that case? If there's no chance of ever getting better gear to stand up to your opponents. Unless you're a masochist who loves getting beaten up of course. In that instance my only hope would be that the ones giving the beatings are all female characters in black leather transmogs, lol.

What is the point of taking random bgs seriously and not joking rated bgs?

[Relapses]

otaXephon, i dont know if you noticed but...Blizzard every month implements content ingame due to player feedback.

There is no way people will stop "whining on forums how WoW isn't another game" like you said because...it works wonders.

Sorry -- I personally find feedback that the game should "be more like {insert game/expansion here}" to be almost entirely useless. These takes are almost always exaggerated or so entirely blinded by nostalgia that the mere possibility of downsides is instantly shrugged off to focus instead on whatever ridiculous notion the player thinks is important.

[Tadkins]

What is the point of taking random bgs seriously and not joking rated bgs?

Not everyone can get into rated. Random will let me in, no questions asked. But if all I have to look forward to is sitting at the graveyard then what's the point of PvPing at all?

[ellieg]

Not everyone can get into rated. Random will let me in, no questions asked. But if all I have to look forward to is sitting at the graveyard then what's the point of PvPing at all?

I guess this just isn't the game for you then. You like pvp and that's great, but those that do harder content / play more, have better gear. You can get this gear from rbgs. If you can't get into groups, you can make one. If you dont want to do any of this, then unfortunately I think you shld find a different game

[Argorwal]

Not everyone can get into rated. Random will let me in, no questions asked. But if all I have to look forward to is sitting at the graveyard then what's the point of PvPing at all?

You're acting like every person in a random BG is a full 226 mythic raider lol.

It's a mix of quest greens/blues to mythic, with most in the 200ish range or less. You'll fit right in.

[Tadkins]

I guess this just isn't the game for you then. You like pvp and that's great, but those that do harder content / play more, have better gear. You can get this gear from rbgs. If you can't get into groups, you can make one. If you dont want to do any of this, then unfortunately I think you shld find a different game

Because I'm not the strongest person with the most connections, and might have a hard time forming and leading groups, the game isn't for me?

You're acting like every person in a random BG is a full 226 mythic raider lol.

It's a mix of quest greens/blues to mythic, with most in the 200ish range or less. You'll fit right in.

Except those times where most of the opponents are organized mythic raiders, and I have to look forward to being beaten on for 15 minutes or so. Not to mention getting trashed by my own team for being "that undergeared loser" taking up a slot in a BG.

I just wish we could have a return of resilience or something, or an ilvl bracket for random BGs. I would wait a little longer in a queue if it meant a good, fun game for my level. Something to make it so that I can feel like I have a fighting chance. As it stands I just don't feel like I have a place in the game anymore.

[Big Thanks]

Sorry -- I personally find feedback that the game should "be more like {insert game/expansion here}" to be almost entirely useless. These takes are almost always exaggerated or so entirely blinded by nostalgia that the mere possibility of downsides is instantly shrugged off to focus instead on whatever ridiculous notion the player thinks is important.

I agree "we have to go back!" 99.9% of the time is a bad argument

[ellieg]

Because I'm not the strongest person with the most connections, and might have a hard time forming and leading groups, the game isn't for me?

No the game is probably not for you because you do bgs where "all I have to look forward to is sitting at the graveyard". If you spend more time dead than alive in bgs, and you believe that's because you're outgeared but refuse to do the content that rewards better gear, then you shld find a game that fills your needs better.

If you're having fun then keep it up. But it sounds like you aren't. And it sounds like you don't like the solutions to your problem.

[Tadkins]

No the game is probably not for you because you do bgs where "all I have to look forward to is sitting at the graveyard". If you spend more time dead than alive in bgs, and you believe that's because you're outgeared but refuse to do the content that rewards better gear, then you shld find a game that fills your needs better.

If you're having fun then keep it up. But it sounds like you aren't. And it sounds like you don't like the solutions to your problem.

It's not a refusal to do the content, it's just having a hard time getting into it. I've never done rated PvP and I'm scared to sign up for groups out of fear of judgment. I don't have any friends that could get me in or help me out. And that's assuming they'll even let someone like me with no rating or experience into them in the first place.

[deenman]

Yes it would be great for casuals and alts to run a few daily heroics and LFR, cap your points and slowly buy your way to a set of great gear. Like you said it works wonderfully in FFXIV and it used to work wonderfully in WoW.

Back in WotLK for example. You got the second best quality gear slowly but surely. Now we have the covenant campaign and that just ends. Casuals are left without a satisfying long term gameplay loop with something to work towards.

But no if casuals can get good gear too the key pushers, raiders and rankers lose their special snowflake feeling, Blizzard losing subs to FFXIV be damned.

the system was indeed great for casuals in wrath,that was the issue,and its partly why wrath was the wworst expansion with its major babyfest coddling

an accurate comparison would be like doing normal dungeons today and getting current content heroic ilvl gear,thats just insane...

the valor system is much better as it gives you a ceiling based on the content you do....if you arent doing mythic raids...YOU DONT NEED MYTHIC ILVL

[Tadkins]

the valor system is much better as it gives you a ceiling based on the content you do....if you arent doing mythic raids...YOU DONT NEED MYTHIC ILVL

PvP needs some sort of buffer though, for casuals to be able to fight back against mythic raiders. Something like templates or resilience. Otherwise what's the point if they have no chance and are just going to get killed over and over?

Do heroic dungeon bosses randomly morph into their +15 mythic keystone counterparts? Should be the same idea for PvP.

[deenman]

PvP needs some sort of buffer though, for casuals to be able to fight back against mythic raiders. Something like templates or resilience. Otherwise what's the point if they have no chance and are just going to get killed over and over?

Do heroic dungeon bosses randomly morph into their +15 mythic keystone counterparts? Should be the same idea for PvP.

agree,pvp gear should have resilience

[ohwell]

Read they were reintroducing valor points and got excited, thought I might resub. Then I read what these “Valor” points actually are and....

Is it so hard for them to bring back badge gear? Something to work towards weekly like back in BC or Wrath? I understand “this game is not that game” but it works wonderfully in Final Fantasy. I unsubbed because I couldn’t deal with the toxicity of random M+ play this expac, too much going on lately but without that and with just Raid Finder there’s not much else to feel like you’re actually progressing your gear. A weekly capped badge system with a vendor would be a HUGE carrot on a stick. Doesn’t need to be the best gear, maybe normal Raid level as it was historically.

Seriously, have they ever mentioned why they completely ignore this concept that they themselves initially used?

*Unable to post on the official forums since I don’t have a sub

Because you don't need it. There's LITERALLY no reason for valor point gear unless they remove GV. Much less your rose tinted glasses have you thinking that valor gear was so easy etc when I think when actually playing the game in both of those expansions I almost never had a reason to spend it on those. I did have a reason in MoP because it was linked to upgrading gear.

- - - Updated - - -

Because Badge gear is not a solution to the issue they're trying to fix here. They don't want to give you another source for gear, they want to give you some consolation reward when you don't get any.

Pretty much this exactly. People were complaining M+ was not rewarding enough so this is their compromise.

[Echocho]

the valor system is much better as it gives you a ceiling based on the content you do....if you arent doing mythic raids...YOU DONT NEED MYTHIC ILVL

If course you do, if you want to do world PvP you need the best possible gear in the game. If anything mythic raids shouldn only award cosmetics in order to shrink the gap. If you're a raider YOU DON'T NEED BETTER PvP GEAR THAN EVERYONE ELSE.

[deenman]

If course you do, if you want to do world PvP you need the best possible gear in the game. If anything mythic raids shouldn only award cosmetics in order to shrink the gap. If you're a raider YOU DON'T NEED BETTER PvP GEAR THAN EVERYONE ELSE.

you get that gear from pvp,but its a bit of a mess...pvp gear should just have a pvp stat

[Echocho]

you get that gear from pvp,but its a bit of a mess...pvp gear should just have a pvp stat

Or raid gear could have a raid stat. It wouldn't make sense if you had to swap gear constantly when you're out in the world depending on if you're fighting mobs or players.

[deenman]

Or raid gear could have a raid stat. It wouldn't make sense if you had to swap gear constantly when you're out in the world depending on if you're fighting mobs or players.

i have actualy mentioned this before,i think pvp gear,raid gear and dungeon gear should all have specific stats,that boost you in that specific enviroment,they would all work outdoors the same way,like for example resilience would for in pvp and also vs outdoor content but not in dungeons and raids,raid gear would have a raid stat that works in raids and outdoor but not in dungeons and pvp (well i guess it could work in normal/hc/mythic 0)

[Doffen]

We have Covenant gear vendor and the Great Vault where you can pick loot. If they added a vendor it wouldnt automatically be gear you wanted either. What then? People would complain that the badge gear sucks! Just as they say the GV sucks now when they get items they dont want and need.

The GV is an ever changing "badge vendor" where you do content and get to pick an item depending on your efforts. In reality it works exactly like a badge vendor.

And the badge vendor in TBC was all catch up. It was always a raid item level below current progress. If you compare it to now, Covenant gear is exactly that. In current game design a badge vendor would not fit in since seasons comes and goes. Remember Azerite vendor? If you wanted to pick your bis from that it took you 24-26 weeks to get all 3 if you did a 15 each week. Bar 8.3 it would mean you got to use it for a month before next season came and you started your regrind. I remenber all the QQ of regrinding the currency, I bet Blizzard do as well.

Why no badge gear? Because we got it in The Great Vault.

[khazmodan]

I've lately come to the opinion that the playerbase is far less casual than we've all been assuming. Most 'casual' players, IMO, have already been run off to the point where they now make up a small, silent minority of players. The game is aimed at and designed for the more mid-core player ... someone who runs decently high m+ keys and heroic raiding at least. If you look at Blizzard decisions with that proportion in mind then more of their design decisions make sense.

I think the playerbase is mostly casual for about a month or so after an expansion or major patch but otherwise I think you are right that it is more in the middle for the rest of the time. The reality is that Blizzard is realizing that they can make plenty of money by not bending the game over backwards for the casuals that will not stick around. Instead it makes sense to make it a ton of fun for those casuals for that first month so they keep coming back to buy another expansion and grindy enough for the consistent daily players that are in the middle and then extreme high end rng for the no lifers that grind until there eyes bleed.