Insanity Spenders should be baseline right?

[Jedimindtrx]

Insanity Spenders should be baseline right?
Not bashing live, love the rework, just a thoughtful improvement in QOL.

Preface
DP costs 50 insanity and Searing Nightmare is 30.
Love the PTR 9.0.5 ShadowCrash damage boost. (written 2/12/21)This alludes to something later.

What I am getting is that our Hybrid DPS buddies essentially have two baseline hardhitting spenders:
Boomies: ST in OPsurge and AOE in OPfall.
Ele: ST Earthshock and AOE Earthquake.
Ret: ST Templar's Verdict and AOE Divine Storm.
Shouldn't SP be the same? I feel this is an area where homogenization is okay, right?

1 - Searing Nightmare Baseline
My idea is that Searing Nightmare should be baseline, otherwise another iteration of it.
Baseline Searing Nightmare would be the current live talent. Same Insanity cost.
A replacement in the talent could be "Applies VT + SWP but no longer pulses dmg, only refreshes dots."
Cost: 50-70 insanity, expensive just due to it's nature.
This could be switched too. Have the current live talent remain the same, but Searing Nightmare is now baseline and applies dots on all targets. Seems OP but you still have to build to 50 insanity, so I think it's fair, plus you're using your resource to refresh as opposed to spending on hardhitting DPs is that push/pull DPS choice.This would allow for a more Shadow Apparition-y/DP multidot playstyle. This would put more value into the Shadow Apparition talent AND the Psychic Link Talent.

If not that, then this...
2 - Shadow Crash is Baseline and a Spender
I do not like this idea as much as the first one. I'm just advocating for a baseline AOE Spender with some power behind it.
That would be Shadow Crash, but definitely needs an increase in damage%. The current live dmg would be 10-15 insanity cost, lol. If the current PTR dmg checks out (154% spellpower) that would be 25 insanity? IDK the numbers yet, but I'm talking about a bighitter Shadow Crash worth 50 insanity to validate this change.
You can replace the live talent with targets hit by Shadow Crash spawns 2 Apparitions or Shadow Crash causes target with SWP/VT to explode for dmg% of spellpower. IDK.

Last Thoughts
I wasn't trying to focus on a talent rework/redesign, but I did. Really wanted to focus on having an AOE insanity spender baseline.
I'm not saying do both, because then it would be kind of broken, though fun, not trying to break the spec, just some fair and thoughtful adjustments.

I already noticed that SPs would have 1 ST spender and 2 AOE spenders IF talented into Searing Nightmare and IF Shadow Crash became a spender. Well that would be the the point of the talent tree. The choice would be do I spam Searing Nightmare to apply DOTs/pulse for 30 insanity or do I Shadow Crash for 50 insanity with the bigdam? Do I take a different talents so it better synergizes? Am I moving? Will the mobs live long or not? etc.

LMK what you think, be happy to discuss.

[Amariw]

Think your idea is good. Affliction suffers a similar issue. Ever since Legion many speccs feel "incomplete" without talents and it really shows in m+ where you have to pick one. Shadow aoe without searing nightmare feels awkward as fuck, same as affliction without Vile Taint.

[angrys13]

Insanity Spenders should be baseline right?
Not bashing live, love the rework, just a thoughtful improvement in QOL.

Preface
DP costs 50 insanity and Searing Nightmare is 30.
Love the PTR 9.0.5 ShadowCrash damage boost. (written 2/12/21)This alludes to something later.

What I am getting is that our Hybrid DPS buddies essentially have two baseline hardhitting spenders:
Boomies: ST in OPsurge and AOE in OPfall.
Ele: ST Earthshock and AOE Earthquake.
Ret: ST Templar's Verdict and AOE Divine Storm.
Shouldn't SP be the same? I feel this is an area where homogenization is okay, right?

1 - Searing Nightmare Baseline
My idea is that Searing Nightmare should be baseline, otherwise another iteration of it.
Baseline Searing Nightmare would be the current live talent. Same Insanity cost.
A replacement in the talent could be "Applies VT + SWP but no longer pulses dmg, only refreshes dots."
Cost: 50-70 insanity, expensive just due to it's nature.
This could be switched too. Have the current live talent remain the same, but Searing Nightmare is now baseline and applies dots on all targets. Seems OP but you still have to build to 50 insanity, so I think it's fair, plus you're using your resource to refresh as opposed to spending on hardhitting DPs is that push/pull DPS choice.This would allow for a more Shadow Apparition-y/DP multidot playstyle. This would put more value into the Shadow Apparition talent AND the Psychic Link Talent.

If not that, then this...
2 - Shadow Crash is Baseline and a Spender
I do not like this idea as much as the first one. I'm just advocating for a baseline AOE Spender with some power behind it.
That would be Shadow Crash, but definitely needs an increase in damage%. The current live dmg would be 10-15 insanity cost, lol. If the current PTR dmg checks out (154% spellpower) that would be 25 insanity? IDK the numbers yet, but I'm talking about a bighitter Shadow Crash worth 50 insanity to validate this change.
You can replace the live talent with targets hit by Shadow Crash spawns 2 Apparitions or Shadow Crash causes target with SWP/VT to explode for dmg% of spellpower. IDK.

Last Thoughts
I wasn't trying to focus on a talent rework/redesign, but I did. Really wanted to focus on having an AOE insanity spender baseline.
I'm not saying do both, because then it would be kind of broken, though fun, not trying to break the spec, just some fair and thoughtful adjustments.

I already noticed that SPs would have 1 ST spender and 2 AOE spenders IF talented into Searing Nightmare and IF Shadow Crash became a spender. Well that would be the the point of the talent tree. The choice would be do I spam Searing Nightmare to apply DOTs/pulse for 30 insanity or do I Shadow Crash for 50 insanity with the bigdam? Do I take a different talents so it better synergizes? Am I moving? Will the mobs live long or not? etc.

LMK what you think, be happy to discuss.

Searing Nightmare, without any doubt, should be baseline. So I agree with your first idea. The points you bring with it do nothing but solidify 'the why.'

I believe a refresh of dots could be a solid choice for a talent replacement too, but I'm curious to hear some other ideas as well (as I personally don't have any).

[Violetti]

Are you guys actually enjoying searing nightmare as a button?
I'd rather they find a way to replace it altogether

[TheAld]

I enjoy Searing Nightmare but I too think it should be baseline. I think the fact we have only one insanity spender as baseline is due to the hasty rework for Shadow late in the Beta.

I do like the way it works and I think the aoe with the pulsing during channel feels great. I don't know if the numbers or functionality would need tweaked were it to be baseline, though. It is quite strong.

A potential replacement on the talent tree, I think you could add something that causes voidbolt to hit targets nearby for 50% of the damage dealt to the main target; might be too similar to the mind blast cleave, but it would give you a powerful boost for AoE which fills the 'clumped aoe' niche the current talent provides.

[Molvonos]

Think your idea is good. Affliction suffers a similar issue. Ever since Legion many speccs feel "incomplete" without talents and it really shows in m+ where you have to pick one. Shadow aoe without searing nightmare feels awkward as fuck, same as affliction without Vile Taint.

How are you not SoC'ing and blasting MR to use your shards in AoE situations? A few Agonies and you can usually be in the top 5 for dps. Vile Taint is awkward as hell to use for me.

[csguba]

Searing Nightmare should definitely be baseline. It's almost the entirety of a Spriest's AoE, not having access to it on what is primarily a ST fight where you need Twist of Fate feels awful if adds are at times present.

[Steelangel]

Are you guys actually enjoying searing nightmare as a button?
I'd rather they find a way to replace it altogether

Searing nightmare is hot garbage. I have it macro'ed to my SW:P button so that when I'm casting Mind Sear, I can use one button for 2 functions.

A real problem is that misery applies VT and SW:P but doesn't seem to do SW:P's initial damage, it just gives the dot; so a misery opener does not do any damage for about a second.

If they gave SW:P's initial damage to Misery that would be such a QoL improvement! I could spam dots on all the things and the cast time for VT would be worth it.

[Aleksej89]

I hate manually multi-target dotting so getting that baseline searing nightmare would be lovely.

[Steelangel]

Searing Nightmare should definitely be baseline. It's almost the entirety of a Spriest's AoE, not having access to it on what is primarily a ST fight where you need Twist of Fate feels awful if adds are at times present.

This too. If I'm not running ToF, I feel definitely weaker on ST, but if I am running it, adds die before it becomes worthwhile. Shadow priests shouldn't be forced into the choice between "single target monster and laughably horrible AOE" and "Mediocre single target with awkward-feeling AOE but only if there are more than 3 targets" when you have Druids who can hit one button and do double our DPS both in single target and AOE.

[Darsithis]

#1 is absolutely where we need to be. Make it baseline - most classes have ways to spread dots easily or ramp up AOE. I feel like we’re hitting with wet noodles when I just keep casting Mind Sear over and over.

[Thelxi]

I don't have anything against a resource being exclusively ST. Even if Blizzard homogenized the spec with others, it's not like they wouldn't still tune the AoE to exactly the numbers they want for the spec, changing absolutely nothing. I'd rather be rewarded for multidotting with that ST spender, and have the spec be tuned around that. If I wanted divine storm I'd be facerolling a paladin.

[Sazalol]

Multidotting should always be rewarded