Raid Loot Droprates Tuning - February 16

[Lucetia]

The existence of people like that in a queue means the minimum ilvl people expect for lfg activities is increased to compensate for them, so not sure about it not affecting anyone else's gameplay.

Well you can't go a whole lot higher than 226. 226 I think is Mythic level minus last two bosses and they only drop so many slots so I think at most you can hit 228/299? So it's not like people can ask for a lot more to compensate for anything and people will just ignore them in lower raids/m+'s

[TheFirstOnes]

Gotta say they've been relatively solid with response to feedback this expansion. Seems like a majority of issues are being addressed albeit in the timely blizzard manner we all know and love (deal with).

Definitely a solid and welcome change. It definitely makes a difference with the larger raids. We run 30 in our heroic group

Kinda sucks some people think it's too late, even tho this is the usual time Blizzard does changes like this. Old Blizzard, I mean. I get they want to see these things from launch, but that's kinda impossible to do.

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I want to know what the actual loot per boss in a raid was prior to this. I mean assuming the 33% is right and the 2 and 4 aren't rounded down numbers, the original values were 1.5 and 3 for 10 and 20 man which basically means 1 extra piece per boss in those sizes. That also means that the original numbers were NOT the far off from WotLK values where it was 2 per 10(where 10 man drops were crap compared to 25 anyway) and 4 per 25.

I get about 1-2 pieces of loot after each Nathria run, and that's with 15 people. So, let's say I should get about...3-4 now?

[Puri]

It was time, but most curious we do know now the ridiculous low original drop rates.

With 2/1.33=1.5 items per 10 players there was even less loot per boss than you got in any untimed m+.

While statistically 15% chance means around half the players get loot every 4th boss, but the issue with so low probabilities is that you easily get outliners:
with a 15% loot chance per boss that means one in ten players didn't get any loot in 10 boss kills, and one in hundred players didn't get a single loot in 28 boss kills.

No idea how they came up with those numbers in the first place without adding any bad luck system (that we know of).

[Derzorvadur]

Little late? We're not even in 9.0.5 yet bruh! WoD, Legion, BFA, and even MoP would take longer than SL in order to get shit like this right! HELL, BLIZZARD HASN'T GOTTEN LOOT RIGHT FOR 5-6 CONSECUTIVE YEARS!

"There is so much heinous shit in Shadowlands" What? What "shit"? The MAW? THE OPTIONAL AS FUCK MAW THAT'S BEING UPDATED THROUGHOUT THE EXPANSION? Torghast? You mean the thing you only go through for Legendary Soul Ash or for some cosmetic fun? Something that is optional and doesn't really hinder any true experience?

Renown? Something that you can get practically caught up on in about 2-3 days MAX? I went from 9-23 in terms of Renown after a fucking day. There's nothing bad about that whatsoever. Conduits? Something that's actually well balanced?

Or are you talking about the PVP? Yeah, some classes suck and should get tuned better, but that's it. Remember WoD, Legion, and BFA? PVP was horrible. And don't try to defend WoD PVP, because Ashran was the worst fucking thing ever.

Or are you talking about the lack of Tier Sets? Cause well...guess what Blizzard's doing, buddy!

Or are you talking about the open world? Well, you have the covenant Anima stuff, you have World Quests, you have M+ with Valor Points, WPVP (Which is actually fun again), and some other things I think I forgot to mention.

I'm sorry, but I'm so fucking happy to be playing SL rn, that I don't see your issues. Maybe it's opinionated, but after going through 3 horrible Expansions (Legion is not exempt from this, even tho I did like the story and some aspects of it), and after seeing a LOT of WoTLK, CLASSIC, and MoP vibes from this expansion, I'm just glad to be playing the game again.

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"Now I could clear 30 bosses and get 1 item, instead of clearing 30 bosses and getting no item."

I don't think you get how this works. In a 20 man raid, 4 pieces of loot will drop from each boss. That's a great inbetween tbh. In a 30 boss raid with 4 pieces of loot from each boss (If we're counting 20 man raids), then you have 30 times 4, which is 120 pieces of loot. What's 120 divided by 20? 6. So, you'll likely get about 6 items in total if distribution numbers are correct. And if not (As not every raid difficulty caps at 20, etc), then maybe a little less.

But you'll definitely not get just 1 piece. Even I was blessed with like 1-2 pieces of gear throughout my Castle Nathria run. And that was with about 15 people before the added boost.

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My math is probably wrong here, but I assume you'll likely get about 3-4 pieces MAX in Castle Nathria now. MAYBE 2, though that's it people aren't willing to trade you shit aswell.

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You've not raided Castle Nathria then. I'm sorry, but this take is horrible. No one is asking for what you're saying. In fact, that was one of the reasons WoD sucked dick. As it was due to the fact that Garrisons made raiding worthless (Granted, it's not WQ's, but that's irrelevant).

I've done Castle Nathria MULTIPLES TIMES OVER throughout every week, and each time I get about 1-2 pieces of loot MAX. 2 is me getting LUCKY with the droprates, aswell.

This change was sorely needed. Idk how you could suggest otherwise.

To be fair, it is a bit late for many of those that progress through PvE content. Mythic dropped in mid February and by the time this .5 patch goes live it'll be in March, almost 3 months into the raid tier. Considering that after week 1 they were able to hotfix a bug that allowed more loot to drop from heroic raids than intended I think they could have addressed the loot drop issue before this.

Also, the Maw isn't exactly optional content for anyone that actually cares about their character being at it's most powerful because putting sockets on all your gear for progression isn't exactly optional to most. The more casual players might not care as much but it is still a way to progress your character locked in a zone that is woefully devoid of interesting content. While the zone may be iterated on as the expansion goes on, things like Suramar when it came out was much more polished when it first came out comparatively.

And Renown is completely rng. When I swapped my Covenant on Thursday evening in order to grind out the 25 needed for my conduits by next raid week it took me all the way until Monday evening. I did a mythic world tour, over 20 m+, a full normal Nathria clear, and several BGs before finally getting it done. While some can have it easier and for those less centered on progression it might not be as bad letting it happen naturally over 2+ weeks but that was not the case for me and many others.

I don't think many reasonable people are saying this is a horrible expansion, especially compared to some of the most recent expansions but it isn't devoid of fairly substantial issues that could have easily been fixed before it even launched if Blizzard would have just listened to many of those that routinely play through the alpha/beta and make countless videos and articles pointing out these problems beforehand.

[Nellise]

Those people don't have a loot issue. If you don't do dungeons or raid (even LFR) you can get a ton of 197 gear via the covenant campaign. If you'e willing to PVP a bit, you can fill in the rest. If not, wait for the "do 4 mythics and get a heroic CN piece" weekly quest and similar things. Get enough 197 gear and WQs will drip 184 or above.

So, you're all fine.

Well random bgs are a mess because people with 220+ gear are in them just destroying everybody with little chance to even fight back. As someone who doesn't group at all, I'm stuck at ilvl 200 with no way of going any higher. I get killed by rogues with 220 gear with zero chance of fighting back. Last expansion, as long as you kept playing, you'd eventually get heroic level gear from pvping by capping conquest each week (this took several months, but it was there), or even doing world quests enough you could maybe wf/tf a few pieces to raid levels. So Blizzard changed the game on me, I didn't change how I play, and they made it much less fun for anybody like me.

[Azerox]

Lmao good timing blizz (not).

[ohwell]

It was time, but most curious we do know now the ridiculous low original drop rates.

With 2/1.33=1.5 items per 10 players there was even less loot per boss than you got in any untimed m+.

While statistically 15% chance means around half the players get loot every 4th boss, but the issue with so low probabilities is that you easily get outliners:
with a 15% loot chance per boss that means one in ten players didn't get any loot in 10 boss kills, and one in hundred players didn't get a single loot in 28 boss kills.

No idea how they came up with those numbers in the first place without adding any bad luck system (that we know of).

1.5 per 10 and 3 per 20 isn't ridiculous. The numbers in Legion and beyond were. It was slightly below WotLK/Cata loot rates. SLIGHTLY.

[Kuja]

How nice of them. Now adjust old ass raids from Legion and BFA to be appropriately scaling when soloing, as you can't find a group for them anymore unless playing at prime time.

[munkeyinorbit]

Classic/vanilla/TBC says hi, most bosses drop 2-3 items for 25-40 people.

You've clearly started playing when the game started spoiling players in MOP

Sunwell dropped 6 pieces of loot for 25 man. That's a higher drop rate then now. Honestly, if all you did was collect badges for badge gear can you honestly say you even played in TBC?

[tmamass]

nice to see that theres another round of "tunning" for SL BETA...

[Galexander]

I rarely comment on these but thank God! I was seeing between 0-2 items per week and some of them alrdy dropped before. Think this is too late, most already have better gear than 213 which is doable for most players and mythic is not. This fix seems better for alts not for mains.

[tmamass]

Classic/vanilla/TBC says hi, most bosses drop 2-3 items for 25-40 people.

You've clearly started playing when the game started spoiling players in MOP

WHAT? did you already forget TBC gear for marks?

[Twistnectar]

What do you need 226 gear for? Farming ICC or SoO 0.1% faster?

This is the same argument that I don't understand. People who don't want to push challenging content still want the rewards, but whatever for? I mean if all you're doing is world quests and torghast why do you need the BEST gear in the game? Sure, it makes runs faster, but it's certainly not necessary. Even twisted corridors were easy enough with 190 IL, which is pretty meh right now.

[Asrialol]

To be fair, it is a bit late for many of those that progress through PvE content. Mythic dropped in mid February and by the time this .5 patch goes live it'll be in March, almost 3 months into the raid tier. Considering that after week 1 they were able to hotfix a bug that allowed more loot to drop from heroic raids than intended I think they could have addressed the loot drop issue before this.

Also, the Maw isn't exactly optional content for anyone that actually cares about their character being at it's most powerful because putting sockets on all your gear for progression isn't exactly optional to most. The more casual players might not care as much but it is still a way to progress your character locked in a zone that is woefully devoid of interesting content. While the zone may be iterated on as the expansion goes on, things like Suramar when it came out was much more polished when it first came out comparatively.

And Renown is completely rng. When I swapped my Covenant on Thursday evening in order to grind out the 25 needed for my conduits by next raid week it took me all the way until Monday evening. I did a mythic world tour, over 20 m+, a full normal Nathria clear, and several BGs before finally getting it done. While some can have it easier and for those less centered on progression it might not be as bad letting it happen naturally over 2+ weeks but that was not the case for me and many others.

I don't think many reasonable people are saying this is a horrible expansion, especially compared to some of the most recent expansions but it isn't devoid of fairly substantial issues that could have easily been fixed before it even launched if Blizzard would have just listened to many of those that routinely play through the alpha/beta and make countless videos and articles pointing out these problems beforehand.

Judging by your post, you don't seem to comprehend what the majority of the playerbase is. Sockets on all gear "not optional"? You realize that statement is true for maybe less than 0.1% of the playerbase?

You realize the overwhelming majority of players hasn't even touched mythic raiding? And the majority of raiders hasn't cleared mythic CN - not even close?

No, the maw is 100% optional. So is Torghast. Even if you care about progressing your character, it's entirely optional. So is raiding, dungeons, pvp, pet battles, rp, enchants, gems, soulbinds, legendaries, consumables, etc.

[Arainie]

I want to know what the actual loot per boss in a raid was prior to this. I mean assuming the 33% is right and the 2 and 4 aren't rounded down numbers, the original values were 1.5 and 3 for 10 and 20 man which basically means 1 extra piece per boss in those sizes. That also means that the original numbers were NOT the far off from WotLK values where it was 2 per 10(where 10 man drops were crap compared to 25 anyway) and 4 per 25.

WotLK had the following values:
10 man: 1 per boss plus 1 tier token if applicable
25 man: 3 per boss, 2 plus 2 tier tokens if applicable

CN as officially stated by Blizzard has up until next week 15% drop chance per player. This means:
10 man: 1 or 2 items (average 1.5)
20 man: 3 items
25 man: 3 or 4 items (average 3.75 to compare with WotLK)

Loot values were higher than WotLK but we lacked the agency of master looter. And well, people thought they wanted and could handle less loot but it turns out they couldn't. I'm happy with the live values personally, I just want the master looting system back for guilds.

[james2400]

Fucking finally.

Weapon tokens, specifically, just never fucking dropped. We've seen about 10 weapon tokens for a 30-player raid, total.

That's insane!

Dunno posters like Arkanon and Otaxephon would consider you a entitled crybaby for asking for more loot.

Only explanation i can think of is they are boosters.

[Revamp Man]

and just like every change blizzard makes this is a solution to a problem they made but the solution itself is just reverting it back to how it worked in the past EXCEPT we still dont have an actual solution to raid gearing issues

[Danuel]

Too late - no1 want progress raid anymore. Every1 was forced to do M+.

[Lord Pebbleton]

Honestly, who didn't see this coming?

I didn't, in the negative sense.

I mean, I had given up all hope they'd do anything about it.

[AlmightyGerkin]

Add 4 tablespoons of butter to your pot of coffee for a delight

Who the fuck adds butter to coffee?