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  1. #61
    The Unstoppable Force FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebert View Post
    Blizzard taking a leaf out of Destiny 2's playbook.
    Which is funny cause destiny 2 took it from blizzard

    or do we suddenly forget that we have been farming "the same item but high ilvl" since wotlk?

  2. #62
    Herald of the Titans TheWorkingTitle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    yes?
    That is an objectively irrational stance to take. You'd rather re-do content and be at the mercy of RNG for a second time than have the ability to upgrade your current set of gear. Listen to yourself.


    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    Because idk about you, but i think it would be fucking unfair to be told "lol that item you sold 3 months ago that you can now upgrade that woudl then be your bis? lol you cant get it back fuck you, all these other people who just decided to keep it now get rewarded but you, fuck you!"
    That's literally a non-issue with upgrading tiers 0/4 like in MoP. - https://www.icy-veins.com/forums/top...point-changes/

    No item could be that broken anyway, there's always competitive choices. So that's moot.
    You think you don't, but you do

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    Yes, because being able to see the difference between MoP's upgrade system and this upgrade system is somehow blizzard shilling?


    Yeah i guess so.



    Giving all items +10 ilvl
    and upgrading all items to the exact same ilvl
    are the exact same guys, no difference, totally the same.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Got some good examples?

    Cause we have never had a system like this before actually.
    Did you play in Mists of Pandaria? They added a system where you could upgrade your items twice

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    yeah, its better that everyone be "forced" to refarm the dungeons, then people who horded items for months be rewarded.

    its literally the "exploit early, exploit often" mentality you have there.


    Rewarding players for doing things that are normally bad for the game/against the game is not a good idea.


    If they make it so items obtained months ago can suddenly be upgraded to be even better then items dropping now, well then


    enjoy holding onto literally every single item you ever get, JUST INCASE they add a way to upgrade them in the future.


    Did LFR to get a bag of augment runes? well shit that pair of 193 bracers you got better go in your bank, just incase in the future they add a way to upgrade their ilvl.

    Killed a rare mob? got a 183 trinket? better shove it in your bank incase you can upgrade it later

    did icecrown citidal and got a staff? better hold on just incase someday yo ucan upgrade it

    see the problem with adding RETROACTIVE REWARDS

    Is this clown for real???? Do u even play the game shill???

  5. #65
    The Unstoppable Force FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheWorkingTitle View Post
    That is an objectively irrational stance to take. You'd rather re-do content and be at the mercy of RNG for a second time than have the ability to upgrade your current set of gear. Listen to yourself.




    That's literally a non-issue with upgrading tiers 0/4 like in MoP. - https://www.icy-veins.com/forums/top...point-changes/

    No item could be that broken anyway, there's always competitive choices. So that's moot.
    For most players they would have to redo content anyways.

    the mop system and this system are literally not even similar.


    The mop upgrades made a 10 ilvl peice a 20 ilvl peice and they made a 1000 ilvl peice a 1010 ilvl peice. if one is better, its still better, cause they all go up the exact same.
    but this system makes that 10 ilvl peice, suddenly 1000, and that 1000 peice, still a 1000.



    So let me give you a hypothetical.



    Blizzard releases a new system tomorow


    "LEGENDARY UPGRADES!"
    "With a new currency we have deployed you can upgrade your old expansion legendaries to all be equal to current game legendaries!"


    Some players would be rewarded for holding onto their legendaries from YEARS ago that have lost all use other then taking up bank space.
    while many players would be told "lol go fuck yourself, should have gotten those legendaries and held onto them, knowing we would do this some day"




    If you have an item A that increases your dps by 10% and one B that increases your dps by 50%, upgrading 10% to both does not suddenly make item A better then B.

    But make both items able to upgrade till they increase your dps by 100% and suddenly A and B are equal, even though A was weaker.

    Now tell players who sold A months ago that they are fucking dumb cause they sold a bad item, and tell people who kept item A for whatever reason they are good players, and suddenly you make hoarders.


    You ever heard of the meme commonly made with RPG players of "Mass item hoarders" cause they refuse to sell ANYTHING incase it might be useful some day?
    yeah, by having items useless, and then randomly adding uses to them later is how you make those, and that is a bad idea.

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by maverick1625 View Post
    Spoiled child??? That's reacting like a spoiled child to u snowflake?? LMAO, get out more dickhead. People have been playing this game for 15yrs+, and we're PAYING a sub for it. Yeh, so i have every right to react the way i am considering they've been deliberately gating players for their player engagement metrics. So don't tell people how they should and should not react to bullshit like this.
    Honestly, it's irritating that people like you exist in this community because it makes actual reasonable discussion with the developers almost impossible when people like you clog up the conversation by throwing BabyRage temper tantrums about how you didn't get exactly what you wanted from them. Also, it's highly questionable how you say you've been playing this game for 15 years, but have somehow failed to realize that mechanics like this have existed since before WoW was even the most popular MMO out there. You're free to dislike the current system but calling anybody who tries to provide reasoning for the things Blizzard does or doesn't do a fucking shill, again, just makes you look incredibly silly.

  7. #67
    Herald of the Titans TheWorkingTitle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    For most players they would have to redo content anyways.

    the mop system and this system are literally not even similar.
    That is irrelevant to the point that players should be able to upgrade the current gear they own with earned valor points.
    You think you don't, but you do

  8. #68
    The Unstoppable Force FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stormwolf64 View Post
    Did you play in Mists of Pandaria? They added a system where you could upgrade your items twice
    Quote Originally Posted by TheWorkingTitle View Post
    That's literally a non-issue with upgrading tiers 0/4 like in MoP. - https://www.icy-veins.com/forums/top...point-changes/

    No item could be that broken anyway, there's always competitive choices. So that's moot.

    Yes, but all items got upgraded the same amount.

    here since it seems you dont understand the issue.


    Mop upgrade system

    Item A= ilvl 100
    Item B=ilvl 150


    Item B is obviously better, and now they added upgrading! each upgrade adds 10, and you can have 2 upgrades
    Item A= ilvl 120
    Item B=170

    Item B is obviously still better!

    Now we have this new upgrade system

    Item A= 100
    Item B=150

    Now the upgrade system is added, with a cap of 200

    Item A=200
    Item B=200

    suddenly they are tied, this item that before was worse, is suddenly equal to, or even possibly better then item B.


    That could not happen with the MoP upgrades.


    The new upgrade system makes all things equal.

    The mop system equally upgraded all things

    here is a good example of it, the Equality versus Equity diagram.



    Mop was an equality upgrade, all items got the same upgrade, so items that were already strong stayed strong, while items that were weak stayed weak.

    This new system is equity, it makes them all equal, so suddenly items that were better are now equal to all others, and items that were worse, are suddenly equal with all others.



    THis in itself is not bad, but when it is done RETROACTIVLY isthere an issue.


    Cause again, suddenly those items you sold months ago cause we didnt know there was going to be an upgrade system ,are now able to be upgraded, and oof too bad you sold them months ago!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by TheWorkingTitle View Post
    That is irrelevant to the point that players should be able to upgrade the current gear they own with earned valor points.
    How do you enforce that then?

    "any items not equipped on your charecter upon this announcement, cannot be upgraded, any items restored cannot be upgraded, any items in yoru bank cannot be upgraded" etc.


    The problem is, if they allow you to retroactivly upgrade gear, then people who hoarded gear are rewarded, while people who got rid of shit items cause they were shit, are punished.

  9. #69
    Herald of the Titans TheWorkingTitle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post

    How do you enforce that then?

    "any items not equipped on your charecter upon this announcement, cannot be upgraded, any items restored cannot be upgraded, any items in yoru bank cannot be upgraded" etc.


    The problem is, if they allow you to retroactivly upgrade gear, then people who hoarded gear are rewarded, while people who got rid of shit items cause they were shit, are punished.

    No substantial portion of people are hoarding items that are clearly worse items, as far as 20+ item level as you've insinuated. So that is moot.


    You are able to upgrade items you currently own. So use the item restoration before the patch, otherwise what you have going into the patch is what you can upgrade.
    You think you don't, but you do

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    Honestly, it's irritating that people like you exist in this community because it makes actual reasonable discussion with the developers almost impossible when people like you clog up the conversation by throwing BabyRage temper tantrums about how you didn't get exactly what you wanted from them. Also, it's highly questionable how you say you've been playing this game for 15 years, but have somehow failed to realize that mechanics like this have existed since before WoW was even the most popular MMO out there. You're free to dislike the current system but calling anybody who tries to provide reasoning for the things Blizzard does or doesn't do a fucking shill, again, just makes you look incredibly silly.
    As opposed to snowflake clowns like you??? Yeh the game is in such a gud spot when Blizz is making changes off shills like you that don't even play the game. And you're sayin these mechanics have always existed??" What exactly are you talkin about here? Fuk off. Most people that ACTUALLY play the game are pissed about these bullshit decisions.

  11. #71
    The Unstoppable Force FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheWorkingTitle View Post
    No substantial portion of people are hoarding items that are clearly worse items, as far as 20+ item level as you've insinuated. So that is moot.


    You are able to upgrade items you currently own. So use the item restoration before the patch, otherwise what you have going into the patch is what you can upgrade.
    And how do you know that?

    Especially since the item restoration tool exists, and i know everyone i know who is even slightly progression player instantly restored every single item in the item restore tool that was from M+ when it was announced, and kept every item that dropped until blizz announced you could not upgrade old items.

    And guess what, what you just said is bullshit, cause the item resoration only goes back 30 days, and i can tell ya right now M+ has been around longer then 30 days.

    so people who kept those items are rewarded while people who sold them are punished.



    random jo shmo who wears 204's cause they are his best gear, even though he has 207's that are better ilvl gets rewarded, while the rest of us in 213/220 etc but not our best gear are punished cause we sold that random 207 we got that if upgraded would have been our BIS.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    Yes, but all items got upgraded the same amount.

    here since it seems you dont understand the issue.


    Mop upgrade system

    Item A= ilvl 100
    Item B=ilvl 150


    Item B is obviously better, and now they added upgrading! each upgrade adds 10, and you can have 2 upgrades
    Item A= ilvl 120
    Item B=170

    Item B is obviously still better!

    Now we have this new upgrade system

    Item A= 100
    Item B=150

    Now the upgrade system is added, with a cap of 200

    Item A=200
    Item B=200

    suddenly they are tied, this item that before was worse, is suddenly equal to, or even possibly better then item B.


    That could not happen with the MoP upgrades.


    The new upgrade system makes all things equal.

    The mop system equally upgraded all things

    here is a good example of it, the Equality versus Equity diagram.



    Mop was an equality upgrade, all items got the same upgrade, so items that were already strong stayed strong, while items that were weak stayed weak.

    This new system is equity, it makes them all equal, so suddenly items that were better are now equal to all others, and items that were worse, are suddenly equal with all others.



    THis in itself is not bad, but when it is done RETROACTIVLY isthere an issue.


    Cause again, suddenly those items you sold months ago cause we didnt know there was going to be an upgrade system ,are now able to be upgraded, and oof too bad you sold them months ago!

    - - - Updated - - -



    How do you enforce that then?

    "any items not equipped on your charecter upon this announcement, cannot be upgraded, any items restored cannot be upgraded, any items in yoru bank cannot be upgraded" etc.


    The problem is, if they allow you to retroactivly upgrade gear, then people who hoarded gear are rewarded, while people who got rid of shit items cause they were shit, are punished.

    Fuk off u shill.

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    Yes, but all items got upgraded the same amount.

    here since it seems you dont understand the issue.


    Mop upgrade system

    Item A= ilvl 100
    Item B=ilvl 150


    Item B is obviously better, and now they added upgrading! each upgrade adds 10, and you can have 2 upgrades
    Item A= ilvl 120
    Item B=170

    Item B is obviously still better!

    Now we have this new upgrade system

    Item A= 100
    Item B=150

    Now the upgrade system is added, with a cap of 200

    Item A=200
    Item B=200

    suddenly they are tied, this item that before was worse, is suddenly equal to, or even possibly better then item B.


    That could not happen with the MoP upgrades.


    The new upgrade system makes all things equal.

    The mop system equally upgraded all things

    here is a good example of it, the Equality versus Equity diagram.



    Mop was an equality upgrade, all items got the same upgrade, so items that were already strong stayed strong, while items that were weak stayed weak.

    This new system is equity, it makes them all equal, so suddenly items that were better are now equal to all others, and items that were worse, are suddenly equal with all others.



    THis in itself is not bad, but when it is done RETROACTIVLY isthere an issue.


    Cause again, suddenly those items you sold months ago cause we didnt know there was going to be an upgrade system ,are now able to be upgraded, and oof too bad you sold them months ago!

    - - - Updated - - -



    How do you enforce that then?

    "any items not equipped on your charecter upon this announcement, cannot be upgraded, any items restored cannot be upgraded, any items in yoru bank cannot be upgraded" etc.


    The problem is, if they allow you to retroactivly upgrade gear, then people who hoarded gear are rewarded, while people who got rid of shit items cause they were shit, are punished.
    You seem to know all the answers without having any answers at all But they said so themselves didn't they? They didn't want you to farm and generally prepare the gear now in wait for it. I think we can all assume that the dangling carrot stick for making addicts keep doing what they've been doing for months to be the reason here.

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by maverick1625 View Post
    As opposed to snowflake clowns like you??? Yeh the game is in such a gud spot when Blizz is making changes off shills like you that don't even play the game. And you're sayin these mechanics have always existed??" What exactly are you talkin about here? Fuk off. Most people that ACTUALLY play the game are pissed about these bullshit decisions.


    Nice logical fallacy, brother.

    Nobody on this forum has a more relevant opinion than anybody else. Simply because you occasionally type words in capital letters and use ad hominems to dismiss the opinions of anybody who disagrees with you does not mean that you're more right or your opposition is less right. It's ridiculous interactions like this which make actual legitimate, actionable feedback for developers difficult to find because people like you don't actually want to make any suggestions to the developers further than to tell them they're "wrong and retarded" and anybody who dares to think otherwise is an obvious shill.

  15. #75
    Legendary! Firebert's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    Blizzard releases a new system tomorrow

    "LEGENDARY UPGRADES!"
    "With a new currency we have deployed you can upgrade your old expansion legendaries to all be equal to current game legendaries!"
    I like it.

    I'd immediately start farming for Val'anyr on my main, knowing I already have it on my old character.
    Xcp1GZuINwpTe8bsMa52
    94HHVhB3R4tExa0JVqzaSbzgg2klkSfdwG3Np8HFO0tjF3ZuNK5oau8Bc3wB4padZ7KiLgAjj3niSh8l
    btFnYMO1k30ASkNLFhjOVjm6SPjjAnCD91CWN1oXxX5LFWk7RlCdu99kykVywDC5VwU7EXNd1tSBS5mB
    m5ZVP8EV9diJpojDtrYefFE4esCxkudPZtzw0zm6AEzIwA9SQLR7MRbIbIdKv6PqbkYrJD11KX4VzZOM
    bGvVhU99O1QZhmbEH9ktY9eOKMkr1FDmkgXfqO8q

  16. #76
    The Unstoppable Force FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stormwolf64 View Post
    You seem to know all the answers without having any answers at all But they said so themselves didn't they? They didn't want you to farm and generally prepare the gear now in wait for it. I think we can all assume that the dangling carrot stick for making addicts keep doing what they've been doing for months to be the reason here.
    ???

    I literally just gave you all the answers (One is equity, one is equality, they are VERY different) and your response is "nu uh, anyways they are abusing addicts"
    Alright then.
    They didnt want people to farm gear now, and they didnt want people to abuse the item resoration system or even feel fucked because they sold an item that could be upgraded to be BIS over the time limit of item restoration.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Firebert View Post
    I like it.

    I'd immediately start farming for Val'anyr on my main, knowing I already have it on my old character.
    1. so you agree we should have to start fresh
    2. and meanwhile your spending weeks farming it, random people who already had it get to use it, leaving you in the dust.
    Last edited by FelPlague; 2021-02-14 at 02:02 AM.

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post


    Nice logical fallacy, brother.

    Nobody on this forum has a more relevant opinion than anybody else. Simply because you occasionally type words in capital letters and use ad hominems to dismiss the opinions of anybody who disagrees with you does not mean that you're more right or your opposition is less right. It's ridiculous interactions like this which make actual legitimate, actionable feedback for developers difficult to find because people like you don't actually want to make any suggestions to the developers further than to tell them they're "wrong and retarded" and anybody who dares to think otherwise is an obvious shill.

    All i'm getting from u is a lot of bullshit.

  18. #78
    Herald of the Titans TheWorkingTitle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    And how do you know that?

    Especially since the item restoration tool exists, and i know everyone i know who is even slightly progression player instantly restored every single item in the item restore tool that was from M+ when it was announced, and kept every item that dropped until blizz announced you could not upgrade old items.
    You are the one initially claiming it is. The burden of proof is on you. I'm saying that the average person is not saving low ilvl items that are clearly not upgrades and are useless as they are higher ilvl. There is no rational reason to do so. Your subjective experience is contributing to your confirmation bias.



    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    And guess what, what you just said is bullshit
    Quote exactly what I said that is bullshit.


    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    so people who kept those items are rewarded while people who sold them are punished.
    Who cares if some fringe case held onto a 183 quest item anyway. You do. To the point that you're against players being able to upgrade the current gear they own for your own selfish victimization. I'm done. Everyone reading can see both sides.
    You think you don't, but you do

  19. #79
    The Unstoppable Force FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheWorkingTitle View Post
    You are the one initially claiming it is. The burden of proof is on you. I'm saying that the average person is not saving low ilvl items that are clearly not upgrades and are useless as they are higher ilvl. There is no rational reason to do so. Your subjective experience is contributing to your confirmation bias.





    Quote exactly what I said that is bullshit.




    Who cares if some fringe case held onto a 183 quest item anyway. You do. To the point that you're against players being able to upgrade the current gear they own for your own selfish victimization. I'm done. Everyone reading can see both sides.
    And
    that
    is
    the
    fucking
    issue


    that the "average person" is then punished for not having saved items they got months ago.
    yes, because it is bullshit, end of, to add retroactive rewards. end of story.


    Blizzard adds an exploit that allows you to farm millions of gold.
    a couple people abuse it and it gets fixed
    we ask for them to get punished and then you chime in with

    "The average person did not use this exploit therefore it is ok"

    no, speaking that anyone gets to abuse it, while the rest of us do not because we did not play the game in a manor against the norm is not fair.


    The argument you use, is the same used by people who exploit in the game, it is an argument of "But them doing it doesent effect you!" no, but that they got a bonus that we did not, while they played the game against the norm and we did, is not fair.
    Last edited by FelPlague; 2021-02-14 at 02:07 AM.

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by maverick1625 View Post
    All i'm getting from u is a lot of bullshit.
    Look dude, I get that you're obviously emotional about this subject but what I've been saying from the beginning is the same: You'd be a lot less more likely to have the feedback you're providing acted upon by developers if you presented your concerns rationally, without emotion, and without calling the developers a bunch of names for no fucking reason. I know you'll respond to this by saying "they never listen anyway," but I don't think a game as big as WoW can ever truly say that it's listened to all feedback and it's frankly pretty unreasonable to expect that they do.

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