If we keep killing gods then won't we run out of gods to kill eventually?

[Evaddon]

And I'm trying to explain there is no "closest thing to being a god". You're either powerful enough to be considered a god or not.

Now you're just nitpicking on the way I chose to word things? C'mon man.

WE.DON'T.KNOW.WHAT.CAN.COME.NEXT?! Is that really hard to understand for you? So I said its the closest thing we've seen yet and yes they're considered Gods as I already said...So like...what is your point? You just trying to argue nothing really..or????

[Pebrocks The Warlock]

Now you're just nitpicking on the way I chose to word things? C'mon man.

WE.DON'T.KNOW.WHAT.CAN.COME.NEXT?! Is that really hard to understand for you? So I said its the closest thing we've seen yet.

I'm not trying to nitpick but you're not understanding me. To be considered a god you don't have to be at the Titan's level. That's it.

[Evaddon]

Not only is this just a poor view to hold, it's not even factually accurate in lore. The Void Lords aren't weaker than Titans, they just can't manifest more than a fraction of their power in the physical realm. The Titans also aren't even remotely close to being "gods" they're just a large race of extremely advanced people. If anything is close to being a "god" that we've seen, it's Elune, who seems capable of effortlessly manifesting her power on countless worlds across the universe (the Titans have to travel from planet to planet like any other normal being), and the First Ones, who seem capable of creating titan-level pantheons.

Titans are the closest thing to being a god in the Warcraft Universe...that's why the parasites want to infect them to grasp for power, the second closest thing to godhood is maybe...Void Lords, but they get weaker when they enter reality/realm so that's why they seek to claim a Titan to be Gods

and furthermore, after you stated what I already previously said (...thank you) we haven't seen Elune, or the First One...We've been told things, that's it we haven't seen her power at all really other then doing whatever she did to Ysera and apparently that wasn't much. I'm saying what we've seen so far, Titans are the closest thing to be considered gods. Even in the Wacraft Universe they're seen as gods. Which is facts, in lore...lol that's all I'm referring to because that's all we have true examples of

- - - Updated - - -

I'm not trying to nitpick but you're not understanding me. To be considered a god you don't have to be at the Titan's level. That's it.

That's true I suppose, but that doesn't make them gods? A god is either all powerful or not a god.

[ohwell]

There's no such thing as "literal god". I don't mean that as an edgy fedora statement, I mean that there is no literal boundary between "god" and "not good". The only thing that makes a god, a god, is that someone views them as such.

The Old Gods are certainly god-like entities. A single one can consume an entire planet and bring about the end of the universe. You say they were insects to the Titans, but the idea of their corruptive capability and their agenda was so terrifying to Sargeras, the strongest of the Titans sans Azeroth, that he decided the best option was wiping out the entire universe. The fact that there are stronger entities doesn't make them not gods.


Not only is this just a poor view to hold, it's not even factually accurate in lore. The Void Lords aren't weaker than Titans, they just can't manifest more than a fraction of their power in the physical realm. The Titans also aren't even remotely close to being "gods" they're just a large race of extremely advanced people. If anything is close to being a "god" that we've seen, it's Elune, who seems capable of effortlessly manifesting her power on countless worlds across the universe (the Titans have to travel from planet to planet like any other normal being), and the First Ones, who seem capable of creating titan-level pantheons.

By your logic covid is a god.

[Pebrocks The Warlock]

That's true I suppose, but that doesn't make them gods? A god is either all powerful or not a god.

And that again stems from one's view of god(s). I see it as a very broad view, there being minor and major gods, different levels of power and worship. A god might not be powerful enough to destroy a planet themselves but what if they had a following that could?

I completely understand why you view a god as being completely omnipotent, I just don't see them that way.

[nonameelf]

What was retconned to make the Jailer a character?

The Legion being behind the creation of Frostmourne and the Helm of Domination.

[Hitei]

and furthermore, after you stated what I already previously said (...thank you) we haven't seen Elune, or the First One...We've been told things, that's it we haven't seen her power at all really other then doing whatever she did to Ysera and apparently that wasn't much. I'm saying what we've seen so far, Titans are the closest thing to be considered gods. Even in the Wacraft Universe they're seen as gods. Which is facts, in lore...lol that's all I'm referring to because that's all we have true examples of

We saw her instantly cleanse the nightmare from both Ysera and a titan artifact (again, from potentially the other side of the universe, since Elune isn't an Azeroth-specific entity). We have seen her blessing, the Night Warrior power, capable of turning mortals into something that can fight an Old God, something Titan Keepers had to work together to accomplish. Many things are seen as gods in the Warcraft Universe, including the Old Gods, Loa, Keepers, and even mortal Kings.

By your logic covid is a god.

If someone worships it as such, yes? Are you not aware that plagues, famine, drought, etc. used to be assumed to be divine acts?

[Evaddon]

And that again stems from one's view of god(s). I see it as a very broad view, there being minor and major gods, different levels of power and worship. A god might not be powerful enough to destroy a planet themselves but what if they had a following that could?

I completely understand why you view a god as being completely omnipotent, I just don't see them that way.

And that's my point, you're being just a tad bit to philosophical about Warcraft or maybe I'm reading into to much who knows

But but its very simple to see what is what in the game and to classify it as such. A being of power is not a god, but I can see how it can be confusing with Blizzards naming conventions Wild Gods/Old Gods/Void Gods and to me being worshipped doesn't make you a god, because in our World Kings and Queens were worshipped for their royalty but that did not make them gods in any sense

[Daedius]

And Wild Life keeps getting stronger in every expansion, so that Boar in Shadowlands was stronger than the Gods back in Vanilla!

All Hail Miss Piggy!

[BananaHandsB]

The term "god" in wow doesn't really mean much. There are still many more powerful beings than the old gods that we know of, and we have only explored a tiny corner of the universe. Not to mention we've used borrowed powers to kill them, meaning new threats could be relatively weaker but still formidable.

[Evaddon]

We saw her instantly cleanse the nightmare from both Ysera and a titan artifact (again, from potentially the other side of the universe, since Elune isn't an Azeroth-specific entity). We have seen her blessing, the Night Warrior power, capable of turning mortals into something that can fight an Old God, something Titan Keepers had to work together to accomplish. Many things are seen as gods in the Warcraft Universe, including the Old Gods, Loa, Keepers, and even mortal Kings.

So...she does what Titans have done before to a lesser extent and that makes her more powerful than the Titans in your book..okay

Titan Keepers are just machines, with a little bit of extra battery and her Night Warriors have failed every time....sorry but nothing shes done makes her seem stronger than the Titans yet if that's really your argument, a Titan has brought us back from death in the Argus fight which is nearly impossible to do outside of game mechanics while Elune lets her worshippers die, or gives them power to the point where they die.

-------
Just to add...I don't trust the Titans even if they're Gods or not. I don't think they ultimately care about anything other then their design for how they want things to be and I think Shadowlands is going to expose their lies and manipulations

[Akibaboy]

We're gonna face the Jailer as the last boss of the expansion

I agree.

I like it when they can make grounded content out of existing characters, locales, and whatnot. I heard a lot of complaints like "nobody cares about the faction war" when Battle for Dazar'alor hit, but honestly I loved the setup and delivery of that zone, raid, storyline... if you played the quests and campaigns, and capped off the experience by recruiting the Zandalari to the Horde it was a really complete and great character level story. Similarly liked that Garrosh was a great character that was introduced, progressed, and eventually the center of major conflict all within WoW's own lifespan and they only slightly dipped into god-stuff to deliver that. That's where I think the big picture galaxy stuff works best is when its a kind of subtle hand influencing the actions of mortals, and not "LOOK, THERE'S BAD GOD DOING VAGUE VILLAIN STUFF!"

But the players won't do their O-face epic stream reactions if you just engage in grounded character stories that result in believable conflict, thus Azeroth needs to be cracked in two, stabbed, swallowed in purple goo, and have its sky blown open every other week.

That said, I fully recognize that the purpose of WoW is the same as comic books - the game revolves around setting up your cool action figures going to extravagant, new set pieces and finding reasons to bash them together because its fun... and I'm ok with that

[The One Percent]

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/there..._a_bigger_fish

[Jester Joe]

eventually dungeon trash packs will consist of pantheons of titans. Minibosses will be first ones. Dungeon bosses will be the creators of first ones. Raid bosses will be the creators of the creators of first ones. Bigger and bigger and bigger. Pull back and look at the big picture and you will see it.

We went from killing Lei Shen, a being who absorbed the power of Ra-den, to killing Garrosh, an orc.

Sure, you can spin the "BUT OLD GOD", to which I would point out we went from killing a giant thunder infused troll, a council of troll elders, giant beasts...

To a random orc who just happened to be a general. And two shamans.

[Hitei]

So...she does what Titans have done before to a lesser extent and that makes her more powerful than the Titans in your book..okay

Titan Keepers are just machines, with a little bit of extra battery and her Night Warriors have failed every time....sorry but nothing shes done makes her seem stronger than the Titans yet if that's really your argument, a Titan has brought us back from death in the Argus fight which is nearly impossible to do outside of game mechanics while Elune lets her worshippers die, or gives them power to the point where they die.

She does what titans do, except to do what Titans do they have to travel to the planet, study the things there and then build machines to do the thing--exactly like regular humans, but bigger. Whereas Elune just reaches out across the entire universe from who knows where the fuck she is and instantly does things. Night Warriors have not failed, do you even read quests? The problem with the Night Warriors is that they are TOO STRONG, so they either die from being unable to contain the power before they can do what they wanted to do, or accomplish their goal and then die anyway because they can't contain the power.

a Titan has brought us back from death in the Argus fight which is nearly impossible to do outside of game mechanics

Please stop. You just have no idea what you are talking about. Regular priest/paladin/shaman ressurection is not a game mechanic, it is an actual lore thing. Minor forces bring people back from the dead all the time Terenas II also brings back the entire raid from death. Val'kyr bring back people from death. Whitemane ressurects Mograine and Durand in SM. Spirit healers are not just a game mechanic, they are canon, and canon that was doubled down on in Shadowlands.

Elune letting her followers die isn't because she's not capable of bringing them back something minor priests can do. It's because she has her own reasons for not doing so, or isn't concerned with the majority of mortal deaths.

[LemonDemonGirl]

Elune letting her followers die isn't because she's not capable of bringing them back something minor priests can do. It's because she has her own reasons for not doing so, or isn't concerned with the majority of mortal deaths.

Bwonsamdi can prevent trolls from ending up in the maw, so he's certainly concerned

[StationaryHawk]

We went from killing Lei Shen, a being who absorbed the power of Ra-den, to killing Garrosh, an orc.

Sure, you can spin the "BUT OLD GOD", to which I would point out we went from killing a giant thunder infused troll, a council of troll elders, giant beasts...

To a random orc who just happened to be a general. And two shamans.

If Garrosh having absorbed the power of Y'Shaarj is just an orc, then Lei Shen having absorbed the power of Ra-den is just a mogu.

But dungeon trash will never matter, of course.

[Jester Joe]

... which ended with killing the biggest baddest old god.

Maybe they need to stay a little more grounded than that.

as a lead in to just how powerful N'zoth, an Old God, was. And we didn't just "kill Garrosh" (which we didn't), we stomped out Garrosh's Horde - A world power in it's own right.

You're completely missing the point.

We went from a synthetic old god, to Jaina, to an old god.

At no point was Jaina "not" a threat. All the bosses in the raid were still a challenge in their own right.

You don't NEED to keep escalating like the other poster claimed.

And Garrosh was not a lead in to N'zoth. That's like saying C'thun was a lead in to Yogg, or Yogg was a lead in to N'zoth.

Who...was considered the weakest Old God, mind you.

If Garrosh having absorbed the power of Y'Shaarj is just an orc, then Lei Shen having absorbed the power of Ra-den is just a mogu.

But dungeon trash will never matter, of course.

Lei Shen was absurdly strong in the first place, hence why he was able to overpower Ra-den.

[deenman]

once we run out of gods to kill we'll move on to the super gods, and then the ultra super gods, and then the super ultra mega extreme gods.

just look at the last few years.
old gods not scary anymore? void lords.
pantheon/sargeras not scary anymore? pantheon of death/jailer/first ones suddenly appear.

half expecting we'll end up in the super shadowlands before the expansion is over.

void lords existed in tbc,however it was a bit...odd,they kept changing how strong different entities were

for example we faced void lord or god in tbc directly,it was stated in the past that old gods could kick sargeras ass(changed now),it was said that the aspects could kick the old gods ass(changed),and other things i cant remember right now

[Ulfric Trumpcloak]

They'll just make more.