get rid of valor points and just bring back TF and WF

[Kokolums]

The people whining about TF and WF just completely ruined this game. It has to be said.

And for the record, please for the love of god stop talking about how "everyone" wanted WF and TF gone. I never did. That was one of the few good ideas they had and whiners wrecked it.

[mr2t]

"ruined this game"

[msdos]

The argument about TF reminds me of this argument I hear Path of Exile players make about trade league. Basically, they don't like playing in trade league because they're too tempted to take the path of least resistance and LITERALLY can't control themselves, they will "inadvertently" trivialize the game for themselves via trade, then they'll go over to the SSF side (no trading) and then start celebrating about how awesome and perfect the game is now that it has MECHANICALLY prevented them from having addictive behavior.

It's the same with WF/TF. The players are addicts who can't control themselves and they need the donuts to not be in front of them, otherwise they will spend all day and week min/maxing their way to the donut tray and will not stop until they hate the game and themselves.

TF was perfectly fine for me because I didn't sit and chase forges all day, I was just satisfied with what I had and didn't feel neurotic tendencies about needing to compete and be better than my peers on a video game. I get that people find competing fun in WoW since the content is brain dead, but not everyone relishes in competition, especially if said competition is ALSO brain dead.

[Guidance]

I try not to be toxic, but the only thing that came to my mind was "are you retarded?"

titanforged is horrible, to have someone get an item with a higher ilvl in a world quest than you do a heroic-mythic raid, is ridiculous

[Santti]

The argument about TF reminds me of this argument I hear Path of Exile players make about trade league. Basically, they don't like playing in trade league because they're too tempted to take the path of least resistance and LITERALLY can't control themselves, they will "inadvertently" trivialize the game for themselves via trade, then they'll go over to the SSF side (no trading) and then start celebrating about how awesome and perfect the game is now that it has MECHANICALLY prevented them from having addictive behavior.

It's the same with WF/TF. The players are addicts who can't control themselves and they need the donuts to not be in front of them, otherwise they will spend all day and week min/maxing their way to the donut tray and will not stop until they hate the game and themselves.

TF was perfectly fine for me because I didn't sit and chase forges all day, I was just satisfied with what I had and didn't feel neurotic tendencies about needing to compete and be better than my peers on a video game. I get that people find competing fun in WoW since the content is brain dead, but not everyone relishes in competition, especially if said competition is ALSO brain dead.

I came to the same conclusion, and have been saying the same thing for a while now, only you did it way better and funnier, rofl.

And yeah. People burnt out, because they felt they had to get the perfect rolls on everything, making tf/wf not fun.

[Yuli]

This community can't decide sh*t. WF/TF was unfun, even for people who didn't burn themselves out.

I love that I can target gear.

[A Chozo]

What? No, for the first time in ages the freaks of my guild who grind M+ aren't 20 ilvls ahead of everyone who don't obsess with gear. Even our KSM folks are like 5 ilvls ahead of the rest at best. Made our casul core way less stressed.

Titanforged encourages degenerative farming of gear, and no one who plays this game is benefited from that.

[cparle87]

The argument about TF reminds me of this argument I hear Path of Exile players make about trade league. Basically, they don't like playing in trade league because they're too tempted to take the path of least resistance and LITERALLY can't control themselves, they will "inadvertently" trivialize the game for themselves via trade, then they'll go over to the SSF side (no trading) and then start celebrating about how awesome and perfect the game is now that it has MECHANICALLY prevented them from having addictive behavior.

It's the same with WF/TF. The players are addicts who can't control themselves and they need the donuts to not be in front of them, otherwise they will spend all day and week min/maxing their way to the donut tray and will not stop until they hate the game and themselves.

TF was perfectly fine for me because I didn't sit and chase forges all day, I was just satisfied with what I had and didn't feel neurotic tendencies about needing to compete and be better than my peers on a video game. I get that people find competing fun in WoW since the content is brain dead, but not everyone relishes in competition, especially if said competition is ALSO brain dead.

Took the words right out of my mouth. Remember in Legion during Nighthold when people were still farming mythic Ursoc for trinking hoping for TF and hating themselves?

[Subrias]

this is a troll post right?

[kenn9530]

The people whining about TF and WF just completely ruined this game. It has to be said.

And for the record, please for the love of god stop talking about how "everyone" wanted WF and TF gone. I never did. That was one of the few good ideas they had and whiners wrecked it.

WF and TF was just too random it was a terrible system, its better to just be able to upgrade your items and blizzard dont even listen to the players anyway so anyone complaining about TF/WF had nothing to do with it being removed.

[msdos]

I love that I can target gear.

What gear is that exactly? Vers/random stat? Wow, exciting.

- - - Updated - - -

Took the words right out of my mouth. Remember in Legion during Nighthold when people were still farming mythic Ursoc for trinking hoping for TF and hating themselves?

I thought that meme would die out with the Arcano Crystal, but they seriously deleted everything from the game, including stat stick trinkets lmao. Anything that poses any type of dissonance for Blizzard, they just yeet out of the game, it's so lazy.
They know the community is caught in the same dissonance too and can't agree on anything, it's easy for them to take advantage, "oh um, yeah, by the way, you won't be able to upgrade your OLD gear cuz um... yeah.... coding issue, hehe, deal with it scrub lords.."

[Yuli]

What gear is that exactly? Vers/random stat? Wow, exciting.

Secondary Stats, Trinkets, etc.
Stuff you'd care about if you'd look out for more than just ilvl.

[dogshtslave]

OP has retarded and cant get into groups for anything so he just relies on TF gear from worldquest

[msdos]

Secondary Stats, Trinkets, etc.
Stuff you'd care about if you'd look out for more than just ilvl.

How are you targeting those things exactly? You could always do all that, I'm not sure what you're talking about. I don't care about any of the loot in this game, it's all bad, boring, trivial, nothing is unique about it, etc.

[Lamnent]

You're in the minority.

I've not played with someone who LIKED wf/tf. At best they were indifferent and the majority hate it.

Ranging from casual to semi-hardcore raiders.

Gtfo out of here lol

[Argorwal]

I can’t understand people that defend a reward system that just randomly gives you super good stuff despite no change in the content being completed.

It’s awful and it needs to stay dead.

[exsanguinate]

The people whining about TF and WF just completely ruined this game. It has to be said.

And for the record, please for the love of god stop talking about how "everyone" wanted WF and TF gone. I never did. That was one of the few good ideas they had and whiners wrecked it.

so I have no desire to run 50x plaguefall just so that a trinket for me "maybe" drops as a TF. i absolutely do not understand how people voluntarily get involved in something like this and then still ask for it. I just can't get my head around it

[msdos]

You're in the minority.

I've not played with someone who LIKED wf/tf. At best they were indifferent and the majority hate it.

Ranging from casual to semi-hardcore raiders.

Gtfo out of here lol

Your anecdote about people you played with isn't evidence of anything, if anything, all those people were complaining that they're hardcore addicts who can't help themselves.

- - - Updated - - -

I can’t understand people that defend a reward system that just randomly gives you super good stuff despite no change in the content being completed.

It’s awful and it needs to stay dead.

Now you need to figure out why people are defending a PVP system where you can be randomly one shot with no change in content or MMR or anything.

[Gnomesized]

That was one of the few good ideas they had and whiners wrecked it.

I agree.

There were many compromises that could have been done rather than caving to the whiny elitists and removing WF/TF completely as they did.

As a "casual" player (ie. not doing M+ or beyond LFR level raiding) I found the WF/TF system gave me more options to remain occupied in game.

For example, in BfA one of the things I liked best was Mechagon isle and for literally months I'd enjoy running the dailies there to get the items to make the craftable trinket, just for the chance of getting the WF upgrade. And eventually I got nice upgrades for both trinkets that way and so slowly progressed my character doing something I enjoyed. But apparently this threatened some elitist players and so it had to be removed and therefore something that gave me literally months of fun in game was gone with nothing similar to replace it.

The idea of WF items fits perfectly with the history and lore of RPG's in general, I played D&D (the old tabletop dice based RPG) for many years back in the 80's and 90's and there was often the option for loot to randomly give the player a better version. eg. It could be shown as something like this, rolling a D20 (20 sided dice) :

1-16 = Ring+1
17-19 = Ring+2
20 = Ring+3

so even back then they understood the extra fun and anticipation of the occasional bonus reward.

Right now in WoW I'm more or less capped at ilvl 198 and that's it about done for the content available to me for my play time and style and so already I'm hardly logging in. If there was the small chance of WF items from world quests or LFR then I'd literally have hours of fun stuff to do for weeks or months, but no... this fun had to be removed to satisfy a group of elitists.

[Argorwal]

Your anecdote about people you played with isn't evidence of anything, if anything, all those people were complaining that they're hardcore addicts who can't help themselves.

- - - Updated - - -



Now you need to figure out why people are defending a PVP system where you can be randomly one shot with no change in content or MMR or anything.

What? There is nothing at all related to how damage happened in PvP vs how an item randomly gets better when you get it.

Abilities do damage, some hit very hard and require using defensive cooldowns to counter offensive cooldowns. Sometimes teamwork is required to avoid burst setups. Things can be outplayed.

They are not comparable at all.