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  1. #321
    The Unstoppable Force Jessicka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MakeMeLaugh View Post
    I'm actually surprised Hamilton isn't bitching like he usually does, he actually took the whole thing like a champ. It's Merc that is non stop bitching about everything.
    You really think Horner wouldn’t be doing the same thing in this position?

  2. #322
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    You really think Horner wouldn’t be doing the same thing in this position?
    I'm sure he would, but that's not what I meant.

  3. #323
    So instead of a lame win under the SC, we get a lame win because screw the rules. Awesome. I'll take that Honda win, but damn.

    Need Roll - 1 for [Bright Pink Imbued Mageweave Banana-Hammock] by Ayirasi

  4. #324
    Quote Originally Posted by willtron View Post
    Masi needs to go, and so does this lobbying on the radio what a joke.

    He handed the title to Max. I hope Merc do contest it because the sports integrity will get nuked otherwise.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Absolutely agree.
    What also wouldn't have happened under charlie is the ridiculious 10 second penalty in silverstone, that would've outright been a DSQ.
    What also wouldn't have happened under charlie is italy, both drivers would've gotten a reprimande.

  5. #325
    I'm glad it got sorted on track and not in a board meeting. Whatever the protests about the sporting regulations it's not like they can predict what would have happened if Max didn't get past the lapped cars, it's possible he could have still won the race under those conditions and in the end he can only deal with the situation in front of him.

    That's where I think the result can't change, a mistake by the stewards doesn't automatically revert the result to the other competitor, it would be even more of a mockery if they revert it. What they need to do though is fix the regulations going into next year to cover all these scenarios more clearly since this year has been the most inconsistent application of the rules I can remember.
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  6. #326
    Moderator Northern Goblin's Avatar
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    Toto Wolff is far from done, the dude straight up takes every option possible to win, so you'd expect him to do the same here.

    This is going to be an ugly off season legal battle.


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  7. #327
    As someone who has never watched an F1 race and only seen YouTube clips - Max is a fucking psychopath

    Maybe I have no idea what I'm talking about.
    But the point is that it's obvious to someone who has no horse in the race or much interest in f1

  8. #328
    Quote Originally Posted by Kayytee View Post
    Maybe I have no idea what I'm talking about.
    This.

    You are a guy calling someone a psycopath based on youtube clips.

  9. #329
    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbazz View Post
    I'm glad it got sorted on track and not in a board meeting. Whatever the protests about the sporting regulations it's not like they can predict what would have happened if Max didn't get past the lapped cars, it's possible he could have still won the race under those conditions and in the end he can only deal with the situation in front of him.

    That's where I think the result can't change, a mistake by the stewards doesn't automatically revert the result to the other competitor, it would be even more of a mockery if they revert it. What they need to do though is fix the regulations going into next year to cover all these scenarios more clearly since this year has been the most inconsistent application of the rules I can remember.
    This isn't entirely true. I agree on the part of "who knows what would have happened with the lapped cars in the way". Well, sort of (you know he wasn't passing Lewis with that--but can't rule out of a DNF or something crazy).

    Where it isn't true is the decision they made to let the lapped cars pass. The sporting code (pasted here multiple times) states that 1. All cars must be allowed to unlap themselves and 2. In the event cars are allowed to unlap, the race resumes once the SC pulls into the pits on the following (key) lap.

    In this situation, the cars were allowed to unlap on lap 57, therefore the SC comes into the pits at the end of lap 58 (last lap). Race over.

    I'm not saying anything gets overturned on appeal, but it's a pretty clear rule that they didn't follow, with a pretty clear outcome if they did (based on the choice made to unlap the cars)--which is a race ending in the SC. If they hadn't chosen to unlap the cars, we'd probably be having the inverse discussion about how Max lost and why they didn't unlap the cars (which would have been its own shit show). Masi is in a lose/lose here, because he botched it from the start.
    Last edited by Espo; 2021-12-12 at 07:31 PM.

  10. #330
    Quote Originally Posted by Kayytee View Post
    As someone who has never watched an F1 race and only seen YouTube clips - Max is a fucking psychopath

    Maybe I have no idea what I'm talking about.
    But the point is that it's obvious to someone who has no horse in the race or much interest in f1
    no thats very accurate. This Guy has been an Idiot for as long as hes in F1. Enough People said that if he continues like this hes gonna kill someone someday. hes 100% reckless and thats why People think he is good or has the Speed. As soon as he meets someone who will not just make room to avoid a Crash it goes boom.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by MakeMeLaugh View Post
    This.

    You are a guy calling someone a psycopath based on youtube clips.
    and yet hes 100% right

  11. #331
    Quote Originally Posted by Kayytee View Post
    Maybe I have no idea what I'm talking about.
    I think that's pretty accurate, I've seen all seasons going back to the mid 80s and have been watching live since the early 90s. What youtube videos have you been watching to give you that impression? Max is one of the best drivers to ever get into a racing car, which is why he was hired and able to take a championship battle to Lewis Hamilton.

    Max like lots of drivers has off days and pushes the limits, but go watch Lewis race in 2011 where he has an off "year" full of incidents, or go watch his years battling Rosberg (2014/16 in particular). Sebastian Vettel has also had a brutal savage phase of his career, Michael Schumacher and Ayrton Senna too. Infact all of the most successful drivers in F1 history have been savage hard races who push everything to the limit of the rules for every competitive advantage.

    Max is not a psycopath, I don't get why you would think that.

    This isn't entirely true. I agree on the part of "who knows what would have happened with the lapped cars in the way". Well, sort of (you know he wasn't passing Lewis with that--but can't rule out of a DNF or something crazy).

    Where it isn't true is the decision they made to let the lapped cars pass. The sporting code (pasted here multiple times) states that 1. All cars must be allowed to unlap themselves and 2. In the event cars are allowed to unlap, the race resumes once the SC pulls into the pits on the following (key) lap.
    Max could have gotten past the lapped cars in a corner or two and he was much, much faster than Hamilton on those tyres. It's perfectly possible he could have still won, and there isn't a situation where you can just decide which driver wins based on an opinion as a way to overule what actually took place on track.

    Again with the regulations/sporting code, why are you bringing that up? What happened on track is what happened, it's not Max's responsibility to decide what the other drivers (lapped cars) are doing and what the race director decides. All Max has to do is follow the rules and race hard, which he did. Why you're even bringing up the sporting code here which we've already discussed to death and is irrelevant to the point I was putting across I don't know.

    It wasn't Max that broke the rules, it was Michael Masi. And had the rules not been broken by Masi there is no foregone conclusion as to the result of the race, so you can't just hand over the win.
    Last edited by Bigbazz; 2021-12-12 at 07:39 PM.
    I7 6700K : 16GB DDR4 3000 : GTX1070 : Firestudio : Naga : G27

  12. #332
    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbazz View Post
    I think that's pretty accurate, I've seen all seasons going back to the mid 80s and have been watching live since the early 90s. What youtube videos have you been watching to give you that impression? Max is one of the best drivers to ever get into a racing car, which is why he was hired and able to take a championship battle to Lewis Hamilton.

    Max like lots of drivers has off days and pushes the limits, but go watch Lewis race in 2011 where he has an off "year" full of incidents, or go watch his years battling Rosberg (2014/16 in particular). Sebastian Vettel has also had a brutal savage phase of his career, Michael Schumacher and Ayrton Senna too. Infact all of the most successful drivers in F1 history have been savage hard races who push everything to the limit of the rules for every competitive advantage.

    Max is not a psycopath, I don't get why you would think that.
    not true. Verstappen is doing this since his debut. this is not a phase.. this is his whole style. hes simply reckless and doesnt give a shit about others

    i hope Vettel returns to that state next Year in a hopefully good Car. but i doubt it ever since he became a Father and this shitty Errors he made at Ferrari throwing the Title away he is different

  13. #333
    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbazz View Post
    Max could have gotten past the lapped cars in a corner or two and he was much, much faster than Hamilton on those tyres. It's perfectly possible he could have still won, and there isn't a situation where you can just decide which driver wins based on an opinion as a way to overule what actually took place on track.

    Again with the regulations/sporting code, why are you bringing that up? What happened on track is what happened, it's not Max's responsibility to decide what the other drivers (lapped cars) are doing and what the race director decides. All Max has to do is follow the rules and race hard, which he did. Why you're even bringing up the sporting code here which we've already discussed to death and is irrelevant to the point I was putting across I don't know.

    It wasn't Max that broke the rules, it was Michael Masi. And had the rules not been broken by Masi there is no foregone conclusion as to the result of the race, so you can't just hand over the win.
    As I said--I agree on the lapped car part (who knows the outcome). Disagree on the lapped cars being passed that quickly though (it certainly didn't happen that fast in the race)--but I'll concede here with my earlier point of "we don't know the outcome". But this isn't what they chose to do. They chose to unlap the cars, which has a very clear set of rules.

    But I'm bringing it up because it's facts, and frankly you're wrong in what you're saying. It doesn't matter if it was Max/Lewis/Christian/Toto/Masi at fault. The bottom line is that a rule was broken and there's a very clear outcome if the rule was followed (race ends on a SC). I spelled out very clearly what would happen if the rules were followed. It's not really debatable, unless you think Lewis would have gotten a DNF following the SC to the finish line.

    The response of "Max wasn't the one who broke the rules" simply does not matter. If Checo crashed into Lewis purposefully, you can bet your ass they're going to rip that title right away from Max, despite him doing nothing wrong (an extreme hypothetical of course, but illustrates the point).
    Last edited by Espo; 2021-12-12 at 07:46 PM.

  14. #334
    Quote Originally Posted by jkq View Post
    not true. Verstappen is doing this since his debut. this is not a phase.. this is his whole style. hes simply reckless and doesnt give a shit about others

    i hope Vettel returns to that state next Year in a hopefully good Car. but i doubt it ever since he became a Father and this shitty Errors he made at Ferrari throwing the Title away he is different
    Doing what? Max has been driving incredible all year, a few sketchy incidents but lets not forget Lewis Hamilton smashing Verstappen into a wall at Silverstone, and lets not forget Lewis Hamilton driving off the track and into the sunset just hours ago, gaining a big advantage after leaving the door wide open and getting beaten to the apex.

    Lewis is no angel. And why are you being hypocritical that you dislike aggressive Max but you wish for a return to aggressive Vettel?
    I7 6700K : 16GB DDR4 3000 : GTX1070 : Firestudio : Naga : G27

  15. #335
    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbazz View Post
    I'm glad it got sorted on track and not in a board meeting. Whatever the protests about the sporting regulations it's not like they can predict what would have happened if Max didn't get past the lapped cars, it's possible he could have still won the race under those conditions and in the end he can only deal with the situation in front of him.

    That's where I think the result can't change, a mistake by the stewards doesn't automatically revert the result to the other competitor, it would be even more of a mockery if they revert it. What they need to do though is fix the regulations going into next year to cover all these scenarios more clearly since this year has been the most inconsistent application of the rules I can remember.
    That's an easy fix. Remove Michael Masi. He's the problem.

    Any other race, this would've ended either under SC or without this rushed palarver of hand picked cars moving up and instantly getting the SC in, which they've never done. (Especially after being lobbied by RBR).

    Irrespective of who you support, the outcome. Michael Masi has ultimately proved he is bad for the sport and he needs to go. Charlie would never have done that.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Boiled-Lobster View Post
    What also wouldn't have happened under charlie is the ridiculious 10 second penalty in silverstone, that would've outright been a DSQ.
    What also wouldn't have happened under charlie is italy, both drivers would've gotten a reprimande.
    Which is fine - give consistency. Masi isn't consistent.
    1) Load the amount of weight I would deadlift onto the bench
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  16. #336
    Light comes from darkness shise's Avatar
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    It is amazing to see the better driver beat the better car. That does not happen often in F1.

    Amazing season! The best won fair and square, when you look at the whole season.

  17. #337
    Quote Originally Posted by shise View Post
    It is amazing to see the better driver beat the better car. That does not happen often in F1.

    Amazing season! The best won fair and square, when you look at the whole season.
    as much as i hate hamilton. but the RB & Mercedes were pretty much even this Year.

  18. #338
    Quote Originally Posted by jkq View Post
    as much as i hate hamilton. but the RB & Mercedes were pretty much even this Year.
    As a whole yes, but there were moments where one team was better than the other. At the end, when Hamilton got a new engine and Merc started using a new wing, the difference in car performance was quite big, and that was for 4 races in a row.

  19. #339
    Quote Originally Posted by MakeMeLaugh View Post
    I'm actually surprised Hamilton isn't bitching like he usually does, he actually took the whole thing like a champ. It's Merc that is non stop bitching about everything.
    All the racers bitch, not just Lewis and they bitch about everything. Only difference between today and 20+ years ago is that we get to hear it.

  20. #340
    Quote Originally Posted by Kallisto View Post
    All the racers bitch, not just Lewis and they bitch about everything. Only difference between today and 20+ years ago is that we get to hear it.
    Yes, but Lewis tends to be more vocal than other drivers when it comes to bitching, so that's why I'm surprised by how it went this time.

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