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  1. #421
    Quote Originally Posted by Northern Goblin View Post
    The recovery team worked impressively fast to try and clean up and give us any racing time at the end, but even then it just wasn't sufficient without Masi rewriting the rules on the spot.

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    Haas today are what Minardi and Arrows were to the 90s and 00s. If they finish anything but last it's a good day for them. No one's going to ever be a fan of that.
    Hey now, Arrows got a second at least. Can't compare them to Haas.

  2. #422
    Quote Originally Posted by Northern Goblin View Post
    The recovery team worked impressively fast to try and clean up and give us any racing time at the end, but even then it just wasn't sufficient without Masi rewriting the rules on the spot.

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    Haas today are what Minardi and Arrows were to the 90s and 00s. If they finish anything but last it's a good day for them. No one's going to ever be a fan of that.
    I mean that's bad mouthing Arrows, their car wasn't that uncompetitive it just had reliability issues. Don't forget Hungary in 1997, I still remember watching that race. I guess Haas has better reliability but all cars are reliable these days, on terms of pace Haas are even worse than Arrows. I guess next year they will have a new car and hopefully they can be a bit more competitive, it really sucks to see Mick Schumacher on the grid and completely unable to do anything.
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  3. #423
    Herald of the Titans Hansworst's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kallisto View Post
    Hey now, Arrows got a second at least. Can't compare them to Haas.
    Come on Haas was working on their 2022 car, so next year they will win WCC /s
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    Take that haters.
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  4. #424
    Moderator Northern Goblin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kallisto View Post
    Hey now, Arrows got a second at least. Can't compare them to Haas.
    It took Damon Hill, a year after being world champion, and half a field retiring for that to happen.

    Edit: Also forgot the Bridgestone tyres had an edge that weekend. God, I miss having more than one tyre firm in racing.
    Last edited by Northern Goblin; 2021-12-13 at 08:23 PM.


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  5. #425
    The Unstoppable Force Jessicka's Avatar
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    I’ll always have a soft spot for McLaren and Ferrari, I don’t think F1 would be F1 without them.

    As much a fan as Lewis as I am, I really don’t have any attachment to Mercedes, they feel like a ‘new’ team to me still (I know technically they just had a long hiatus but that hiatus was my formative experience of F1).

  6. #426
    Quote Originally Posted by Hansworst View Post
    With here you mean people in Britain, right?
    Sorry, what was thast about my nationalist comment being ad hominium? Was worth the infraction for proving me right

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    Quote Originally Posted by MakeMeLaugh View Post
    No, dive-bombing is exactly late braking from a good distance. He met the apex, he stayed on the track, he wasn't turning because he was braking straight in a diagonal line, the video from Driver61 he explains that.

    Those videos were all divebombs. The difference is that Hamilton didn't yield, he tried to keep the outside.

    Okay you clearly can't tell the difference and this is like talking to a brick wall.

    Watch that video and make a note of where the pass happens and where DRs car is when it happens, that can be your homework for this evening. You will be tested on it.
    1) Load the amount of weight I would deadlift onto the bench
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  7. #427
    Quote Originally Posted by Northern Goblin View Post
    It took Damon Hill, a year after being world champion, and half a field retiring for that to happen.

    Edit: Also forgot the Bridgestone tyres had an edge that weekend. God, I miss having more than one tyre firm in racing.
    I dunno I think having one tyre company is better. Just not Pirelli. At least then we don't have another layer of arguments of "You only won because x tyre team is better."

  8. #428
    Quote Originally Posted by Northern Goblin View Post
    It took Damon Hill, a year after being world champion, and half a field retiring for that to happen.

    Edit: Also forgot the Bridgestone tyres had an edge that weekend. God, I miss having more than one tyre firm in racing.
    Credit where it's due Damon/Arrows were the fastest that weekend, qualified 3rd and pulling a 30 second gap to Villeneuve in the championship winning Williams after beating him on the start and then chasing down Michael and fighting him for the position. Arrows pace in 97 was decent, just shit reliability. Damon was obviously in a different league to Diniz but even he scored points.
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  9. #429
    Quote Originally Posted by willtron View Post
    Sorry, what was thast about my nationalist comment being ad hominium? Was worth the infraction for proving me right

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    Okay you clearly can't tell the difference and this is like talking to a brick wall.

    Watch that video and make a note of where the pass happens and where DRs car is when it happens, that can be your homework for this evening. You will be tested on it.
    Can't give homework if you don't understand the subject.

    Dive bombing is not wrong, deal with it.

  10. #430
    Moderator Northern Goblin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbazz View Post
    Credit where it's due Damon/Arrows were the fastest that weekend, qualified 3rd and pulling a 30 second gap to Villeneuve in the championship winning Williams after beating him on the start and then chasing down Michael and fighting him for the position. Arrows pace in 97 was decent, just shit reliability. Damon was obviously in a different league to Diniz but even he scored points.
    I'm not sure Arrows was decent, so much as they had the defending world champion making them artificially look good. Meanwhile he finished 12th (and that's after Schumacher was disqualified) with 6 retires and one DNS.


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  11. #431
    Quote Originally Posted by MakeMeLaugh View Post
    Can't give homework if you don't understand the subject.

    Dive bombing is not wrong, deal with it.
    I mean sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't. Not a clear cut situation, a lot of Daniels passes in that video weren't really dive bombs since he had the car slowed down long before the apex while a lot of Max's more aggressive moves have him going much deeper into the corner. Max's overtakes are often on the limit of what is fair and legal, which is why the drivers complain.

    Ricciardo's passes are on the whole much cleaner and less aggressive. That doesn't mean I'm saying Max's are all taking it too far, but some of them are ridiculous, we saw that at Saudi. I mean Max is a lot like Senna and I loved Senna's driving, Ricciardo though usually gives a bit more respect to the driver he is passing and is less willing to take risks, generally.

    When people talk about dive bombs it's more about opportunistic and risky passes where the driver making the pass is at least being a little bit naughty.

    Quote Originally Posted by Northern Goblin View Post
    I'm not sure Arrows was decent, so much as they had the defending world champion making them artificially look good. Meanwhile he finished 12th (and that's after Schumacher was disqualified) with 6 retires and one DNS.
    Put Lewis or Max in the Haas though and see them try to finish 12th, it'd not happen and they are both even faster drivers than Damon Hill.
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  12. #432
    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbazz View Post
    I mean sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't. Not a clear cut situation, a lot of Daniels passes in that video weren't really dive bombs since he had the car slowed down long before the apex while a lot of Max's more aggressive moves have him going much deeper into the corner. Max's overtakes are often on the limit of what is fair and legal, which is why the drivers complain.

    Ricciardo's passes are on the whole much cleaner and less aggressive. That doesn't mean I'm saying Max's are all taking it too far, but some of them are ridiculous, we saw that at Saudi. I mean Max is a lot like Senna and I loved Senna's driving, Ricciardo though usually gives a bit more respect to the driver he is passing and is less willing to take risks, generally.

    When people talk about dive bombs it's more about opportunistic and risky passes where the driver making the pass is at least being a little bit naughty.

    Put Lewis or Max in the Haas though and see them try to finish 12th, it'd not happen and they are both even faster drivers than Damon Hill.
    Well obviously, if you hit the other car it's wrong, but it's the same for everything else, if you divebomb and make the corner, there's nothing wrong with that.

    It's crazy how everything counts, at the end of the season:

    -Pérez held Hamilton for 6~7s, that was enough to make Merc scared to pit Hamilton during the VSC;
    -Alonso held Hamilton in Hungary, otherwise Hamilton would have easily won the race, that would be +7 points;
    -Max with half a car still managed to grab a P9 in Hungary, that gave him +2 points;

    So, Verstappen would be 9 points behind, so even if he won the last race, Hamilton would still be champion. Kinda crazy...
    Last edited by MakeMeLaugh; 2021-12-13 at 08:53 PM.

  13. #433
    Max fans.

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  14. #434
    Man, I feel bad for Latifi.

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  15. #435
    Quote Originally Posted by Northern Goblin View Post
    "If the clerk of the course considers track conditions are unsuitable for overtaking the message "OVERTAKING WILL NOT BE PERMITTED" will be sent to all teams via the official messaging system."

    The car and debris were still on the track while Horner was on the radio to race control. Tell me where it's against the rules?
    Overall, I really think, that it was about fixing initially wrong decision via 50/50 solution, when it already was way too late to fix it. I agree with Leo Turrini, who said, that in order for this situation to be 100% fair, it should have been red flag and standing restart.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ayirasi View Post
    Man, I feel bad for Latifi.

    Sometimes it really feels like some F1/FIA bosses call them and say THIS SHOULDN'T HAPPEN!!!, so outsider teams press some special buttons to make their cars crash. For example it happened with Russel, who should have won one year ago, but it would have made Lewis/Bottas look bad, so it didn't happened in really weird conditions.

  16. #436
    Masi is such an aussie, just doesn't give a shit

  17. #437
    Do you reckon there is a real risk of Max being stripped of his title with the Mercedes appeal to court?

  18. #438
    The Unstoppable Force Jessicka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Acelius View Post
    Do you reckon there is a real risk of Max being stripped of his title with the Mercedes appeal to court?
    I don't know if it's an option, but the only way I think they could do that would be to void the race entirely, so since Max went in with the win advantage he'd keep it.

    Might still have issues with positions and prize moneys elsewhere though.

  19. #439
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    I don't know if it's an option, but the only way I think they could do that would be to void the race entirely, so since Max went in with the win advantage he'd keep it.

    Might still have issues with positions and prize moneys elsewhere though.
    I had thought the same for a while as a viable outcome where something is done but nothing changes, but not only positions and prizes, there is a lot at stake with points for constructors and drivers to void the race.

    In the end, is such a mess that is a damned if you do damned if you dont situation for FIA. What could they do, make Max and Hamilton both champions? That is almost as bad as keeping as it is.

  20. #440
    I don't think there is any chance of them walking it back and giving it to Lewis. It would require them to assume a situation that didn't take place, which was Mercedes arguing point (that they should have finished under the safety car because unlapping all cars would take too long). But the regulations do say that the race director has overriding authority to make a judgement call and that's what he did.

    Even if they can legally prove Masi was at fault, they still can't resolve the result of the race where the competitors all did everything correct. It might result in Masi losing his job though, if anything to just calm the storm from the mob. I made the mistake of looking at twitter and people are vile and insane, there are a lot of people making this about skin colour and race, calling it a team boss conspiracy to protect Michael's record and all sorts of tin foil hat stuff.

    I really didn't realise how many new fans had come into F1 and how mainstream popular it had become in the last year until I took a short delve into the twitter F1 fanbase and their response to this.
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