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  1. #461
    Herald of the Titans Hansworst's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    Not an issue either Mercedes or Red Bull have.



    F1 had to sign agreements with the EU to basically assure competition and safety over entertainment. That almost certainly was part of the climb down statement last night, and the agreement today. Further argument could drag the EU competition commission in, and that helps nobody.
    Tbf, if you see Verstappen's teammates struggle, it looks like the car is specifically built for him.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
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  2. #462
    Quote Originally Posted by Hansworst View Post
    Tbf, if you see Verstappen's teammates struggle, it looks like the car is specifically built for him.
    And it is. The car is built so it is has a sharper front end. Max likes the car to behave that way, and so does Lewis and most all other Champions in somewhat recent F1 history (Alonso, Senna and Schumi for example).

    Perez prefers a car that is slightly towards understeer than oversteer, dunno about Bottas.

  3. #463
    Quote Originally Posted by Hansworst View Post
    This seasons Lewis was the best I've seen of him in years. He was really pushed this season and delivered. This year he had real competition for the first time since 2016. Lewis still is and always will be the best driver of his generation.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Mercedes drops appeal, so now it's official.
    Before the season had concluded I mentioned on Reddit I thought it was one of Lewis's best seasons, if not his best season because of the competition he had to face. I got downvoted into oblivion, a lot of people seemed to think that this was a bad season for Lewis. Of course if I made that comment now it'd be popular because of the swing of opinion and emotions, plus the Hamilton fans out in force.

    I think 2021 was in contention for Lewis's best season, if not his best season. He's driving at the top of his game. In other news I don't believe he will quit as they are hinting. He will come back and fight next season, he will be ready to go after the air clears.

    And it is. The car is built so it is has a sharper front end. Max likes the car to behave that way
    The trouble is his teammates just can't drive the things, Gasly, Albon, Perez. All of them struggled to make any sense of the car on a consistent basis, Max just has that something extra but it's amplified by the fact that it suits his driving style while it's fighting against those other drivers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maell View Post
    and so does Lewis and most all other Champions in somewhat recent F1 history (Alonso, Senna and Schumi for example).

    Perez prefers a car that is slightly towards understeer than oversteer, dunno about Bottas.
    Jenson liked an understeer car too, or atleast a more neutral one. Michael didn't like the Mercedes, I remember them making a big effort to change the car more to his favour for 2011/2012. But it was interesting how Michael couldn't drive the 2010 cars properly, he was too used to the old style of car light on fuel, tyres were very optimised towards performance and he had that braking style where he would use the throttle and brake at the same time to balance the oversteer of the car going into the corner to maintain more speed, which in the Mercedes he was told to stop doing, old habits.

    Really interesting how style can play such a part in how a driver works, Michael had developed the perfect driving style for the grooved tyre era cars only to then have to adjust to a heavy (no refuelling) lumpy car on more generic less tailored tyres, no traction control either (which allowed him to be even more aggressive on corner exit). With the oversteering Ferrari he would just balance it on the throttle going into a corner while on both pedals, with an understeering car that just makes matters worse, and I think that's what happened at Mercedes.

    Edit : Found one of the telemetry shots from that old article about Michael's driving.



    Last edited by Bigbazz; 2021-12-16 at 04:51 PM.
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  4. #464
    Quote Originally Posted by Maell View Post
    And it is. The car is built so it is has a sharper front end. Max likes the car to behave that way, and so does Lewis and most all other Champions in somewhat recent F1 history (Alonso, Senna and Schumi for example).

    Perez prefers a car that is slightly towards understeer than oversteer, dunno about Bottas.
    To be honest, while some of it is true, I wonder how much it's. Verstappen won his first race once he joined Red Bull. Sainz had an amazing season and even managed to beat Leclerc on his first season for Ferrari. Russel almost won his first Mercedes race.

    I'm not sure the car is really built around someone that much.

  5. #465
    Quote Originally Posted by MakeMeLaugh View Post
    To be honest, while some of it is true, I wonder how much it's. Verstappen won his first race once he joined Red Bull. Sainz had an amazing season and even managed to beat Leclerc on his first season for Ferrari. Russel almost won his first Mercedes race.

    I'm not sure the car is really built around someone that much.
    When teams are designing a car they need to have a clear goal as to how the car should behave - more on the oversteer side, neutral or understeer (they all have their pros and cons) - and if one of your drivers (your nº1 driver) clearly prefers one style more than the others you will naturally steer your development to that style. That is what happened with red bull. And at least with red bull if your nº1 driver is staying with you between seasons he will obviously will have more input that a driver that will only test and give input in a late phase of the car's development.

    Between Sainz and Leclerc i honestly don't know if their prefered style is diferent from one another and if the car suits them both. I would imagine that for this year it would have been around Leclerc and that Sainz prefered driving style is similar or he just adapted really well to it. The test for Ferrari will be next year.

    Russel has always shown to be a fast driver, no ideia if he's driving style suits the Mercedes or he was just really good at adapting to it.
    @Bigbazz awesome to see that telemetry Senna used to do something similar where he used to do really fast applications of the throttle in the corners to counterbalance oversteer.

  6. #466
    Quote Originally Posted by Maell View Post
    When teams are designing a car they need to have a clear goal as to how the car should behave - more on the oversteer side, neutral or understeer (they all have their pros and cons) - and if one of your drivers (your nº1 driver) clearly prefers one style more than the others you will naturally steer your development to that style. That is what happened with red bull. And at least with red bull if your nº1 driver is staying with you between seasons he will obviously will have more input that a driver that will only test and give input in a late phase of the car's development.

    Between Sainz and Leclerc i honestly don't know if their prefered style is diferent from one another and if the car suits them both. I would imagine that for this year it would have been around Leclerc and that Sainz prefered driving style is similar or he just adapted really well to it. The test for Ferrari will be next year.

    Russel has always shown to be a fast driver, no ideia if he's driving style suits the Mercedes or he was just really good at adapting to it.
    @Bigbazz awesome to see that telemetry Senna used to do something similar where he used to do really fast applications of the throttle in the corners to counterbalance oversteer.
    Sure, obviously they receive feedback from the drivers and it reflects in the final product, but I think people push it a bit too far, like the car is like a shirt that fits that driver but can't be used by others.

    Senna would pump the throttle while pressing the clutch to keep the revs high.

  7. #467
    Quote Originally Posted by WowIsDead64 View Post
    Yeah, this season really looks like 94 one. Schumacher was winning, but FIA didn't want him to become champion in advance. And Williams also were against it and they had same power back in that time, as Mercedes now. So Schumacher was almost robbed this title and won at very last moment and exactly due to judges catering to him, while they could give him penalty for crashing with Hill again.

    This really makes me think, that some seasons aren't real competition - they're directed. Some driver is supposed to obviously win, but FIA does everything to keep illusion of intrigue. At the end the one, who deserved it right from the beginning - wins anyway. But it just looks dirty. I don't understand, why it was needed. Because new driver winning championship after several seasons of boring Mercedes domination - was something new and fresh by itself.

    What also bugs me - it that Lewis is...old. It really looks like he is losing his shape and it's time to think about retirement. That's why Russel is promoted to Mercedes. But it seems like Lewis still wants to keep winning no matter what. It's not bad by itself. Everybody wants to win and to break records. But... I don't know, how to say it better. We've got tired of him? Further domination would be boring?
    Schumacher was only where he was because his car was beyond illegal. There was definitely something going on with Option 13, but it could not be pinpointed and Bennetton kept delaying having their car checked for rule-breaking for months. FIA wasn't going after Schumacher personally but his team had been fucking around all season and finally, Verstappen (Jos) car going up in flames was the gotchya they needed as it proved the Bennetton team were messing around with the refuelling.

    It also didn't help Schumacher jumping hill on the parade lap at Silverstone, ignoring a 5 second penalty and then the black flag.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    Something that happens in every sport, you get someone special coming along and it’s amazing for a time, but people get bored of the lack of competition. They stop appreciating how good and how exceptional what they’re seeing is.

    It’s worse in F1 because people want to say it’s all about the car, meanwhile their team mate clearly isn’t seeing so much of the benefit. Never mind where are Williams running the Mercedes engines.

    Also I don’t see where you’re getting the idea Lewis is losing his shape, his last few drives have been pretty special, maybe he got complacent a bit, and a bit fed up earlier with the state of the car, but with Max pushing him I think he’s still got the drive.
    True the whole "It's the car" argument is stupid. No team is going to build a front of the grid car and fit it with mediocre drivers. Best teams want best drivers in seat 1 otherwise you won't perform. The 1990 Williams was clearly the best car that season, but was nowhere because Prost was at Ferrari and Senna at McLaren and they went to the last race. While the Williams divers were miles behind.

  8. #468
    Quote Originally Posted by Kallisto View Post
    Schumacher was only where he was because his car was beyond illegal. There was definitely something going on with Option 13, but it could not be pinpointed and Bennetton kept delaying having their car checked for rule-breaking for months. FIA wasn't going after Schumacher personally but his team had been fucking around all season and finally, Verstappen (Jos) car going up in flames was the gotchya they needed as it proved the Bennetton team were messing around with the refuelling.

    It also didn't help Schumacher jumping hill on the parade lap at Silverstone, ignoring a 5 second penalty and then the black flag.
    Funny thing, that it was Silverstone, where things started to happen again. Overall it was just formal occasion to overjudge him, because penalty rules were violated back in that time (team wasn't notified in time), so initial penalty wasn't valid and they had no right to judge him for black flag violation. Yeah, no fuel filter meant faster refueling. But how faster? 1s faster? Was it really that big difference. All teams cut corners here and there. Only difference - what team is looked at under microscope and overjudged for every wrong move.

    And the biggest difference - is that it was Mercedes car, that was more suspicious this time. It wasn't proved, that their crouching rear suspension was valid, because it had signs of active suspension, that is forbidden. It wasn't proved, that their engine was valid, i.e. that they weren't using some illegal temporary power boost, like exceeding air cooling in intercooler, that was damaging their engines, so they had to constantly replace them. Or they had to replace them just to hide signs of that boosting. Their "flexible" front wing was also suspicious. And while they weren't caught with flexible rear wing, it was suspicious too.

  9. #469
    First teaser image of the Mercedes is out, looks better than the concept car made by F1 to me but that might just be because it looks more like the previous era cars with the wider sidepods.



    @Hansworst - You making the 2022 thread this year?
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  10. #470
    Herald of the Titans Hansworst's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbazz View Post
    First teaser image of the Mercedes is out, looks better than the concept car made by F1 to me but that might just be because it looks more like the previous era cars with the wider sidepods.



    @Hansworst - You making the 2022 thread this year?
    Will do that around the testing days.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    Take that haters.
    IF IM STUPID, so is Donald Trump.

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