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  1. #21
    Epic! Uoyredrum's Avatar
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    Both the players and the game have changed. It's not one or the other. And the game isn't better than it used to be, it's just different. Personally I prefer the old design of the game. I preferred the old animations, sounds, abilities, and general flow of the game. I still play both classic and retail, and I can appreciate them both for what they are, but when TBC classic is released I probably won't touch retail anymore. But I can understand why some people would still play retail for sure.

  2. #22
    Brewmaster rogoth's Avatar
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    to answer your question OP, from an objective perspective i would disagree, however there is a grain of truth in that statement, yes we the older players have changed, but so has the game and social landscape it is played under, so both parties have changed and for most, in opposite directions, hence why the arguement exists in the first place, the social landscape has shifted so much from the one seen back in the mid 00's, where most people played 'slower' and were more often than not more willing to offer help or do things 'for fun' regardless of what level of the game they played at, in the landscape of today that's not the case and it clashes with older players memories of yesteryear and what 'used to be' which for many 'should still be' and that's why i disagree with the sentiment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    Are you actually implying that a man committed suicide because Blizzard stopped releasing subscriber numbers? Not only is this probably the most offensively thoughtless thing I've ever seen posted on this forum, it's... actually depressing that there's a non-zero number of people who'd agree with you.
    without any data to confirm nor deny this statement you can't say either way, while i agree it's not a nice thing to say, there may well have been someone who offed themselves as a result of the downturn the game took over the course of Cata/MoP and were so deeply integrated into the game from a psychological point of view they couldn't take it anymore and felt that the final straw was blizzard going quiet 'confirming' the game was 'dying' in their eyes, it's a Schrödinger's cat situation.

    retired march 2013 RIP - returned january 2016, purely because paladins finally get Ashbringer!

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Spicymemer View Post
    Not only is AV not endgame, but this is absolutely untrue.

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    Last i checked torghast takes an hour atleast.

    What about all the other systems?

    M+

    Stop lying.
    If torghast takes you an hour, delete your toon.

    No M+ timer is over an hour so, I don’t get what your point is. All I hear are the ramblings of a bad casual player.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by rogoth View Post
    without any data to confirm nor deny this statement you can't say either way, while i agree it's not a nice thing to say, there may well have been someone who offed themselves as a result of the downturn the game took over the course of Cata/MoP and were so deeply integrated into the game from a psychological point of view they couldn't take it anymore and felt that the final straw was blizzard going quiet 'confirming' the game was 'dying' in their eyes, it's a Schrödinger's cat situation.
    lmfao - right, the game took a "downturn in Cata/MoP" then the guy waited 5 years to off himself. Yep. Do you realize how incomprehensibly offensive it is to associate something as serious as suicide with something as flagrantly meaningless as whether or not a fucking video game is "good"? Please stop.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Spicymemer View Post
    I havent changed.

    WoW has become a game designed for the unemployed or those without a social life.
    you have not changed in 15 years?damn...thats kinda...sad actualy

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by deenman View Post
    you have not changed in 15 years?damn...thats kinda...sad actualy
    Im already at peak performance

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    Quote Originally Posted by Merlunie View Post
    If torghast takes you an hour, delete your toon.

    No M+ timer is over an hour so, I don’t get what your point is. All I hear are the ramblings of a bad casual player.
    Maybe you should neck yourself?

    Each of these (((systems))) is in addition of time , not their own.

    You must be fucking retarded.

  7. #27
    The gaming context changed.

    Have you seen those old mmo's like star wars galaxies for example? People remember that time fondly because the social interactions were different. The games themselves are only part of the experience in an mmo and that game is boring as hell.

    WoW is worse cause they tried to have the game follow mobile trends and it has backfired. The gaming industry saw easy money on mobile and tried to replicate it everywhere, but it didn't go so well.


    I can tell you a reason why TBC was better than what we have today. That is exclusive 10 and 25 man raids with only one difficulty and badge gear + dailies. Yes, dailies. But, well designed ones such as the isle of quel'danas and skettis. SWTOR does daily hubs really well and people actually enjoy well designed dailies. But, due to mistakes in mists they threw them away and now rather than having an efficient hub with which you progress and get to know a reputation faction, you get to waste time traveling between world quests, a much worse experience.
    So, here is another one. Daily quest QoL experience.
    Last edited by Swnem; 2021-02-16 at 04:24 PM.

  8. #28
    To infinity and beyond det's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMOTherapist View Post

    Just wanted to share this video of a small unknown youtuber i never saw before (on the matter)
    Just an opinion like any other.
    Indeed. Just an opinion. And @Kithelle nicely added an example how indeed players have changed. Thanks to the Vanilla / Classic comparison with all the data we now have.

    OFC people chance over 16 years...how can there ever be a doubt? They change in all other areas of their lives. A once 13 year old is now 29. A now 16 year old player was barely born in 2004 and grew up with completely different games and attitudes towards games. How is that not a massive change?

    Just another opinion.

    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    Shadoowpunk, its great that you think wow is the best its ever been - absolutely fine. What is there to discuss here?
    Did he really go that far and changed his name? OMG ^^

    EDIT. NVM it is him indeed...the original creator of this gem: https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...ever-MMO-Champ

    Posting this also because @T-34 likes me to drag out priceless gems from the past
    Last edited by det; 2021-02-16 at 08:02 AM.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Wheeler View Post
    Stopped watching the video as soon as he said people claimed MMO's "Weren't good" anymore because they were "easier".
    "...games becoming easier, traveling between places taking less time, endgame items being less effort to achieve"

    If you hear the whole phrase he said "easier" in time investment and effort to achieve endgame items in general.
    I think he knows games today are harder mechanically.
    Just try and play Sub Rogue today in Shadowlands

    I actually dont agree with many of his takes and this video was kinda repetitive

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Spicymemer View Post
    I havent changed.

    WoW has become a game designed for the unemployed or those without a social life.
    First of all, your statement is false, and frankly, also quite dumb. Do you even play retail?
    I raid in a 2-day-3-hour raiding guild with 7/10m and the only thing I do is 4 dungeons per week besides raiding.
    How is this for the unemployed only? What's your expectation towards the time requirements? There's as little mandatory grind than never before right now.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Naiattavain View Post
    why is it that when blizzard changed sub after wod that recketful decided to kill him self? coincidence?


    i know times change but what has blizzard turned its self into today?
    Well that escalated quickly. Also wtf is your problem man?. Imply subscriber numbers lead to the death of dedicated wow player is asinine and downright pathetic. And to even try to make that connection is just overall asshole move.

  12. #32
    mmo's are not new, everything has been played and seen a hundred times. there is little to no innovation in the genre.
    that's why it is not that great anymore. yes I have changed, but that does not mean I am not able to differentiate between a good and a mediocre gaming experience.
    wow being better after 15 years is a necessity or else nobody would play it, yet it has no improved to a point were it is as good as it was when it came out.

  13. #33
    Both have changed but I definitely think there's a case for this argument because people always seem to put 100% of the blame on the game changing. If you really think about it, how many other activities (games/tv-shows/books, whatever) that have been part of your life for 10-15 years do you still feel the same about after all those years?

  14. #34
    Herald of the Titans Amaterasu65's Avatar
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    I really like the game, the raid fights, the world, the spells, the classes. But many aspects of the game feel like an agenda list you have to complete per reset and I can get it could be stressful for those who have other obligations and not enough time to keep up.

  15. #35
    No, my preferences have not changed, at least not fundamentally.

    It's a very condescending and generalizing argument, especially in the light of fact that WoW Classic has at least reminded some people why they fell in love with this game.
    Of course, my experience between Vanilla and Classic is different, but that doesn't mean i still enjoyed it, which i did.

    When i have serious gripes with the modern game to the point where i no longer enjoy it, go back to its 15 year old version and actually have a good time in there, then you cannot tell me "you have changed".

    The game changed.
    The Philosophy behind it has changed.
    Thus, it's perfectly natural that some people do not like the way the game is going.

    Nevermind the fact that some issues simply stem from the game being 15 years old, it's like a D&D game that has gone on for 15 years, whereas you normally start a new game inbetween.
    Last edited by Kralljin; 2021-02-16 at 09:21 AM.

  16. #36
    Herald of the Titans Amaterasu65's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swnem View Post
    The gaming context changed.

    Have you seen those old mmo's like star wars galaxies for example? People remember that time fondly because the social interactions were different. The games themselves are only part of the experience in an mmo and that game is boring as hell.

    WoW is worse cause they tried to have the game follow mobile trends and it has backfired. The gaming industry saw easy money on mobile and tried to replicate it everywhere, but it didn't go so well.


    I can tell you a reason why TBC was better than what we have today. That is exclusive 10 and 25 man raids with only one difficulty and badge gear + dailies. Yes, dailies. But, well designed ones such as the isle of quel'danas and skettis. SWTOR does daily hubs really well and people actually enjoy well designed dailies. But, due to mistakes in musts they threw them away andnow rather thanhaving an efficient hub with which you progress and get to know a reputation faction, you get to waste time traveling between world quests, a much worse experience.
    So, here is another one. Daily quest QoL experience.
    I didn't play classic much but I'll definitely go for TBC to relive the experience.

  17. #37
    Legendary! Zuben's Avatar
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    WoW and MMO's in general used to be a lot more social because of lack of tools to group up and do stuff. And what you needed to do to advance in the game was also something you had to largely figure out yourself or ask people. Even Vanilla WoW was considered streamlined and easy compared to its contemporaries for it had a clear questing system and didn't take long for Thottbot to spring up.

    It was nice back in the day, but yes, I was more suited for that stuff back then. Had a guild of real life friends and all. Nowadays it's just me in my lonesome, part of a guild that exists just for the literal perks, happy to make use of the tools the game provides. I could never care less about Classic.
    Now you see it. Now you don't.

  18. #38
    The immersiveness of MMO - their defining characteristic- has always been more wishful thinking and PR gibberish than actual gameplay.

    Also, the online community has changed , it's much more competitive focused and no more about roleplaying in a virtual world.

    In the end, any online service needs a source of income, and grinding for a trickle of rewards to keep you subbed, or microtransactions, are the only solutions found by the industry to make the genre financially viable.

    Also about wow, the fundamentals haven't changed one bit : grind whatever activity is available u til you're sick of it. Arguably, there is no difference between vanilla and live, the activities are more numerous on live, but whatever version of the game you play, you're still grinding.

    If you feel that wow is "worse" , it's just you who got tired of it.

  19. #39
    Dreadlord Rageadon's Avatar
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    Ofc i changed, but so has blizz, the OG crew is gone, the maw and torghast sucks so hard i logged off once i entred the maw with my new toon ( was gonna give it another try)

    the major problem is the gimmick each xpack, wow was about getting gear and killing stuff with people imo

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom View Post
    But I certainly would not play Legion or BFA, or even Shadowlands from what I know of it.
    I really miss Legion. SL is good, bud damn, Legion is best thing I have played even if I compare it to my rose tinted TBC

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spicymemer View Post
    I havent changed.

    WoW has become a game designed for the unemployed or those without a social life.
    damn, talk about lack of personal development.

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