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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    Red Letter Media explained a key difference between good and bad writing here at 6:41.

    That was absolutely brilliant, thanks!

  2. #42
    So can we expect Wrathion to be his Lich Queen?

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    They DON'T count. Those words can apply to the entire roster of lore heroes.

    If someone who knew nothing about WoW asked you to describe the current lore heroes, you are seriously going to say the same things?

    What is Anduin like?
    Stalwart, naive, hopeful, conflicted
    What is Baine like?
    Stalwart, naive, hopeful, conflicted
    What is Jaina like?
    Stalwart, naive, hopeful, conflicted
    What is Thrall like?
    Stalwart, naive, hopeful, conflicted
    What is Qui-Gon like?
    Stalwart, naive, hopeful, conflicted

    OH THAT IS INCREDIBLY GOOD WRITING CAN'T WAIT.
    I would describe Eddard Stark as "Stalwart, naive, hopeful and conflicted" as well, but his character was still compelling and its conclusion was great, in my opinion.

  4. #44
    Anduin had better die or be the new Lich King, or stay in the maw forever doomed, because he is unworthy to be King of Stormwind, much less to wield Shalamayne.

    He wouldn't accept a lifeless queen Sylvanas either. That, no way, because, that would be the height of feminism. Unacceptable.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    those aren't personality traits. that is generic leader x. the entire roster of current lore heroes is written that way. they are all the same character. Anduin, Baine, Thrall, etc all could be described with those 4 words. Qui-Gon Jinn and Queen Amidala as well. Its called being constipated. That's terrible writing when heroes all go that route.
    You can't just undefine the definition of a word because the example I listed is common. In that case, there are numerous "rogueish" characters in Star Wars, so you can't use that definition anymore.

    Also, you're showing that you really don't understand characters - Qui-Gon was not...
    • Naive, he had perception and understanding that was so on-point that he regularly butted heads with his contemporaries
    • Conflicted in the slightest, he's extremely and somewhat recklessly driven in all his actions
    • Defined by being more faithful than hopeful - for example, Anduin believes generally that by having your heart in the right place, things will work out. Qui-gon believes in a specific will of the Force, that exact events and circumstances are that way because the Force is guiding its followers toward an outcome.

    Again, I'm not defending Anduin's writing or Qui-gon's for that matter, you're entitled to your opinion on what you think about them. But when you tell me I CAN'T, and then offer reductive and false analysis then we have a problem.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Netherling View Post
    I would describe Eddard Stark as "Stalwart, naive, hopeful and conflicted" as well, but his character was still compelling and its conclusion was great, in my opinion.
    And what make it good writing is that Ned and not only him , but his whole family and close ones PAY dearly for that naivete and honor .

    Anduin have yet to suffer any real negative consequenses for being who he is and that is what make it disgusting.
    Hell , one of the results of his naivete could have left him a paraplegic when garrosh made the giant bell crush his bones in MOP , but nah ,not only did he made a perfect recovery no problem , it even gave him magic bones that can allow to detect evil and shit . Pathetic.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    They cannot salvage this writing. You would have to give all the main lore heroes personality transplants which would be jarring and stupid. You either need to outright kill off Anduin, Baine, Jaina and Thrall and make new lore heroes that actually have personalities, or (as I suggest) just scrap the main storyline and do a fork off of WoW classic and not screw up the writing this time.
    I honestly don't understand the point of the Jailor/Sylv kidnapping all four of them when only Anduin was needed, from both Watsonian and Doylist PoV's.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nemah View Post
    What about "goody-two-shoes with artificial moral ambiguities?"
    Aka slightly different variants of Mary Sue's.

    Hell, on these very boards I've read a lot of proposed developments for e.g. BfA that were a lot better than the crap we ended up with.
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    The Jailer's first ever appearance involved chucking him [Baine] off a cliff for being too shit to even qualify as a Maw trash mob.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    Describe Anduin without saying what he looks like, what costume he wears, his profession, nor what his role is. Describe this character to your friends like they have never played WoW or Warcraft. You can't.

    You can do that for characters like Han Solo (rogueish, arrogant, charming) or C3PO (prissy, scared, anal-retentive). You can't do that for Anduin. Anduin has NO personality. The writing is terrible.
    Coming of age character who has determination to live up to his father's ideals, compassion for his people, and the burden of responsibility... not only to his people... but for all tribes in WoW. Being young has begrudgingly set him up as idealistic; however, two wars has stripped naked the innocence of youth without collapsing into despair... compassion endures. Anduin believes in a lasting peace in a world that was born in conflict.
    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    No fucking way. The worst idea since democracy.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by McNeil View Post
    So can we expect Wrathion to be his Lich Queen?
    Absolutely, a song of ice (Andy) and fire (Wrathion) remastered by our brilliant resident writers such as Danuser
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    The Jailer's first ever appearance involved chucking him [Baine] off a cliff for being too shit to even qualify as a Maw trash mob.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    Anduin has no personality just like all the current lore heroes. He's extremely constipated. I don't know what to do with him, but then again I don't know what to do with that entire roster of Azeroth heroes. They took anyone with a personality and turned them into villains long ago.
    I would have loved for them to do something with the shadowy side of his priestliness, like they teased in the N'Zoth patch. Make him less like a generic paladin.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Savant View Post
    Would rather call him the bitch king. Why is the writing soo bad now?
    Our discord has been calling him the "Twink-king"...but it's mostly gay posters so it may be a term of affection.

  12. #52
    Herald of the Titans Wangming's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karlz0rz View Post
    Sooo many people complaining about bad writing these days..
    Guys, how about you show us what you got? Just give us 2 different character developments that you would've done during the last 2 expansions?

    And after you do that, see how they would fit into the current storyline.

    I'm kind of curious as to see how many brilliant mastermind literature Gods we have in our midst!
    Why would we go along with this storyline? Shit went off the rails after the introductory questline of WoD. It was a simple affair. Blow up the portal on the Draenor side, and then use a combination of Hearthstones and mage portal to haul ass back to our reality. Nothing that followed afterwards made any lick of sense.

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karlz0rz View Post
    Sooo many people complaining about bad writing these days..
    Guys, how about you show us what you got? Just give us 2 different character developments that you would've done during the last 2 expansions?

    And after you do that, see how they would fit into the current storyline.

    I'm kind of curious as to see how many brilliant mastermind literature Gods we have in our midst!
    No one in these threads is being paid mega bucks to write for Blizzard.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Martymark View Post
    Our discord has been calling him the "Twink-king"...but it's mostly gay posters so it may be a term of affection.
    We've been calling him the Boy Queen for a long time now.

  15. #55
    Herald of the Titans Wangming's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalium View Post
    Coming of age character who has determination to live up to his father's ideals, compassion for his people, and the burden of responsibility... not only to his people... but for all tribes in WoW. Being young has begrudgingly set him up as idealistic; however, two wars has stripped naked the innocence of youth without collapsing into despair... compassion endures. Anduin believes in a lasting peace in a world that was born in conflict.
    Okay, my turn. The relaunch of Final Fantasy XIV happened around the middle of MoP. It introduced Alphinaud Leveilleur who is probably the closest we have to Anduin.
    An intellectual way too sure of his abilites to the point of arrogance, but still firmly believes that the world can be a better and safer place for everyone. He is ver studious, although he took up drawing to impress girls with, girls who often mistake him for his twin sister whom he loved deeply despite their constant bickering. Due to his sheltered life he has no grasp of finances. Also worth noting is that he can't swim and perhaps most importantly he is deathly affraid of ghosts.

    Note that I made no mention of what happens to him over the course of the story. Also I'd like to point out that all of this comes from ingame sources. No tie in novels.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Verdugo View Post
    Kokolums can you please stop misinterpreting RLM to fit your agenda? Anduin HAS a personality. Is it awful, generic and cancerous to the story? Yes, but he still has a personality.
    Yeah, I don't even like Anduin a lot and can't really disagree with the premise that the newer batch of characters isn't terribly interesting, but their argument is pretty damn terrible. A personality you don't like doesn't make it a nonexistent one.
    It is all that is left unsaid upon which tragedies are built -Kreia

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    Describe Anduin without saying what he looks like, what costume he wears, his profession, nor what his role is. Describe this character to your friends like they have never played WoW or Warcraft. You can't.
    Anduin: wise yet naive, voice of reason, pacifist but can be ruthless, crafty, clever and cunning. selfless, debonair, had daddy abandonment issues.

    anything else? got some more up my sleeve =)

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    They DON'T count. Those words can apply to the entire roster of lore heroes.

    If someone who knew nothing about WoW asked you to describe the current lore heroes, you are seriously going to say the same things?

    What is Anduin like?
    Stalwart, naive, hopeful, conflicted
    What is Baine like?
    Stalwart, naive, hopeful, conflicted
    What is Jaina like?
    Stalwart, naive, hopeful, conflicted
    What is Thrall like?
    Stalwart, naive, hopeful, conflicted
    What is Qui-Gon like?
    Stalwart, naive, hopeful, conflicted

    OH THAT IS INCREDIBLY GOOD WRITING CAN'T WAIT.
    thrall and jaina really? i'd sooner call thrall depressed/given up hope at this point and i for jaina i'd say she has traded hopefulness/naive for conflicted/crazy, definitly not both at the same time.

    anduins still a baby character, he about to have his first big story event so he theoretically can become interesting soon (but yeah not holding my breath.)

  19. #59
    And as usual. There is always those flocks of people who complain about spoilers, for a game over 15 years old.

    People never seriously change.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Izzyfurious View Post
    And as usual. There is always those flocks of people who complain about spoilers, for a game over 15 years old.

    People never seriously change.
    crazy how a game can feel 15 years old when its actually 3 months old.

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