21'st Man, The reason WA's need to go.

[azka]

Having the time to repeat the same thing over and over again and follow the script isn't "skill"

Want to hit top dps? There is literally an add-on that tells you what to press and when to press it.
Then you add that in with following the script of the add-ons and it just takes time, anyone can do it.

Sounds like an LFR raider. If you follow the add-on you will parse greens at best.
And if your eyes are on the add-on you will die to simple mechanics.

[Tradu]

Sounds like an LFR raider. If you follow the add-on you will parse greens at best.
And if your eyes are on the add-on you will die to simple mechanics.

That's too far in the other extreme. The addons can absolutely make you perform well for your spec(90%+), but claiming they'll guarantee you top3 in your guild or raid is just silly, because it ignores a lot of context.

[kenn9530]

There are multiple reasons why Weak Aura's need to go. They actually limit design encounter, they over whelm new players and essentially make an add on required for any kind of content that matters.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXx8ZhIzdRQ

This video opens a lot of holes.

Max admitting he wasn't a strong enough player to raid lead and play the actual game. Basically making the game 21 man raids instead of 20.
Max said he does it because he knows he's the best at it, but that's very subjective, if WA's go away he can't sit there and simply tell people when to push their buttons.

I'd like to see them go.

These addons allow the attention to be focused on the actual content instead of trying to remember timings and such so its not a good idea to remove such addons, they dont limit design encounter they actually allow them to be made harder since raid teams can manage each bosses abilities much easier rather than having to remember timings for every single mechanic on every single boss.

If you cant play at least reasonably well and raid lead at the same time then that player is not really that great to begin with.

[Steelangel]

Whether or not that's a problem is up to each individual to decide. I do personally think encounter design has gotten out of hand, and is far too complex. I've felt that way since Heroic Klaxxi in SoO... and it's only gotten worse since then. I think Mythic raiding in general is far too complex. Not too hard, just overly complex.

I don't do much mythic-level raiding, but if you look at the sheer number of "things to do" for a raid team in -Heroic- Castle Nathria compared even to last expansion's raids, it's getting a bit overwhelming. Final bosses are always complicated, and there have always been gimmick bosses like Mekkatorque or Eonar or even Blackfuse, but Nathria feels like every boss has some sort of gimmick, whether it's sheeping both shades on Houndmaster, running portals and explosives on Xy'mox, hitting the barrels on Darkvein, the Council of Blood dance party, etc. There's no "relax" boss except for maybe Destroyer, but even that's got at least 3 "big shift position" mechanics.

I'm glad I'm not raid leading anymore. I'd lose my mind.

[ztkraptor]

Sounds like an LFR raider. If you follow the add-on you will parse greens at best.
And if your eyes are on the add-on you will die to simple mechanics.

LOL, You really don't understand how the addon works do you?
It is extremely clear that you don't know what you are talking about.
I've been in a top 100 raiding guild my entire life and yes I use the addon every now and then when playing an alt, parse top 95% every time for my class.

[FiveDkp]

LOL, You really don't understand how the addon works do you?
It is extremely clear that you don't know what you are talking about.
I've been in a top 100 raiding guild my entire life and yes I use the addon every now and then when playing an alt, parse top 95% every time for my class.

Then do us all a favour and post your armoury.

Like the Tradu's post is quite correct - addons purely don't get you to the Top DPS spot. They help but they aren't 100% responsible for it.

He actually provided you with some decent reasons why such as boss spawning adds/sludgefist hitting pillar on why certain addons may be off. Not to mention RNG can also play a part.

[Xath]

Then do us all a favour and post your armoury.

Like the Tradu's post is quite correct - addons purely don't get you to the Top DPS spot. They help but they aren't 100% responsible for it.

He actually provided you with some decent reasons why such as boss spawning adds/sludgefist hitting pillar on why certain addons may be off. Not to mention RNG can also play a part.

They are talking about a rotation helper which in the majority of heroic guilds will absolutely get you a top spot if you are a decent class because most people have tons of optimization possible in their rotation that they just don't spend enough time playing them game to have it become second nature.

[Elkfingers]

I was already in multiple top 50 world raiding guilds...
You would be surprised how mad some raid leaders get and how many people get replaced for not following the script.

And yes, you can make food just as good as a whatever star chef, so long as you have their tools(aka gear) just by following the script.
What do you think they do? Put a spell on the food? It is quite literally following instructions to make the food...
It is less about their "skill" and more about their tools that they have to accomplish the stuff.


Again, turn off the add-ons and I bet you bosses at this level don't die.
Its a problem because add-ons force blizzard to make fights more and more intense and hard because you essentially are playing against people following a script and don't really have a dynamic to it.

Mate. I, too, have played in world top 20 guilds.

Like did you think that if you told me you'd played in top 50 guilds I'd suddenly think your take was less shitty?

Everything, and I mean literally everything in life is reducible to a set of instructions that have to be followed. Every arena comp has correct and incorrect responses to different situations which you could call a script. F1 drivers have a set of correct responses to different sections of track, and the positions of other drivers. There's an optimal path to follow on the hardest ski runs. You get the fuckin point here.

The fact that you can point to a set of actions which need to be followed for a task to be performed optimally doesn't change the fact that you still need to perform those actions. The skill is in the performance. Actors have scripts. You can literally go online and get the script for The Godfather. It doesn't make you Al fucking Pacino lol.

At this point I don't really know what examples will help you to understand this incredibly simple concept, so I've given you a few. To be honest though I think you might be delusional seeing as you seem to think that with no prior restaurant experience you could cook at a 2 Michelin star level as long as you had some sharp knives and the recipe lmao.

To be fair, probably not delusional. It's more likely that you just really want to be right here. Unfortunately you're obviously not, and now you're having to defend a position which is demonstrably ridiculous. Let it go dude.

I've been in a top 100 raiding guild my entire life and yes I use the addon every now and then when playing an alt, parse top 95% every time for my class.

I also just saw this. Is it multiple top 50 guilds or one top 100 guild? Feels a little off to me that the specifics of your boasting would change from post to post. It's really starting to look like you actually have no idea what you're on about, and you're lying about your accomplishments to give yourself false credibility. At least take the time to get your story straight if you're gonna make shit up.

[Stormbreed]

These addons allow the attention to be focused on the actual content instead of trying to remember timings and such so its not a good idea to remove such addons, they dont limit design encounter they actually allow them to be made harder since raid teams can manage each bosses abilities much easier rather than having to remember timings for every single mechanic on every single boss.

If you cant play at least reasonably well and raid lead at the same time then that player is not really that great to begin with.

The guild leader of the best guild in the world admits that WA's are REQUIRED for today's content.

Thats a problem. Timer's are one thing, having WA's figure out what group needs to soak right now, thats not playing the game anymore.

[kenn9530]

The guild leader of the best guild in the world admits that WA's are REQUIRED for today's content.

Thats a problem. Timer's are one thing, having WA's figure out what group needs to soak right now, thats not playing the game anymore.

Without them the boss fights would be boring because blizzard wouldnt be able to tune them harder, addons just allow the raid leader to have a much easier job and spread out responsability for raiders managing mechanics much better, the addons dont play the game for you and you still have to react, they just give you more information to handle things better.

most players in WoW are not great at the game and no matter how many addons they have they constantly fail at mechanics and such.

[Chickenfing]

LOL, You really don't understand how the addon works do you?
It is extremely clear that you don't know what you are talking about.
I've been in a top 100 raiding guild my entire life and yes I use the addon every now and then when playing an alt, parse top 95% every time for my class.

1000% this guy has never accomplished any of things he claims he has. Any decent parser knows how holding/using CDs at the right time and varying your priority based on the current fight changes everything.

[Advent]

FF14 doesn't have weakauras, and IMO their raids kind of suck.

[munkeyinorbit]

So you're saying I can't use whats available while still not liking it is? Grow up and stay on topic.

I think WA's and a lot of addons are basically playing the game for us right now, and encounters are being designed with them in mind, which in itself is a HUGE problem. The fact the BEST raid leader on earth DOESNT PLAY THE GAME during progression proves I'm right.

Or it proves the reason Limit was able to beat the best resourced guild of all time was that they looked at their strengths and weaknesses and developed a winning strategy? "Coaches" have always being around but creating the 21st man role is inspired. For those 7 guilds that could actually win the race, it is great. It has nothing to do with weak auras. That has been around for expansions. Some form of DBM has been around since vanilla. The tools are not the problem.

[ztkraptor]

1000% this guy has never accomplished any of things he claims he has. Any decent parser knows how holding/using CDs at the right time and varying your priority based on the current fight changes everything.

Doesn't change anything...at all in regards to total damage delt.

Years ago maybe, but the game is so dumbed down it doesn't matter.

- - - Updated - - -

Mate. I, too, have played in world top 20 guilds.

Like did you think that if you told me you'd played in top 50 guilds I'd suddenly think your take was less shitty?

Everything, and I mean literally everything in life is reducible to a set of instructions that have to be followed. Every arena comp has correct and incorrect responses to different situations which you could call a script. F1 drivers have a set of correct responses to different sections of track, and the positions of other drivers. There's an optimal path to follow on the hardest ski runs. You get the fuckin point here.

The fact that you can point to a set of actions which need to be followed for a task to be performed optimally doesn't change the fact that you still need to perform those actions. The skill is in the performance. Actors have scripts. You can literally go online and get the script for The Godfather. It doesn't make you Al fucking Pacino lol.

At this point I don't really know what examples will help you to understand this incredibly simple concept, so I've given you a few. To be honest though I think you might be delusional seeing as you seem to think that with no prior restaurant experience you could cook at a 2 Michelin star level as long as you had some sharp knives and the recipe lmao.

To be fair, probably not delusional. It's more likely that you just really want to be right here. Unfortunately you're obviously not, and now you're having to defend a position which is demonstrably ridiculous. Let it go dude.



I also just saw this. Is it multiple top 50 guilds or one top 100 guild? Feels a little off to me that the specifics of your boasting would change from post to post. It's really starting to look like you actually have no idea what you're on about, and you're lying about your accomplishments to give yourself false credibility. At least take the time to get your story straight if you're gonna make shit up.

I have been in a top 100 raiding guild my entire life. And I have been in multiple top 50.
I'm confused how your brain is having a hard time understating that. Take a statistics class and learn about sets.

[FiveDkp]

Doesn't change anything...at all in regards to total damage delt.

Years ago maybe, but the game is so dumbed down it doesn't matter.

- - - Updated - - -





I have been in a top 100 raiding guild my entire life. And I have been in multiple top 50.
I'm confused how your brain is having a hard time understating that. Take a statistics class and learn about sets.

WoW has become incredibly complex since Classic. I mean look at what was taken to Classic when Classic relaunched? Compared to my classic experience, the effort and all the optimisation that went into Classic was nothing compared to the Classic i experienced in 2005.

[GnomeEU]

So you think raids are too hard?

I'd say raids are way harder than in old times.
Ofc it depends on your raid. If you have strong heals etc.
But yeah, with all the overlaps and the requirements to be 100% HP every 5 sec.

I haven't had so much trouble in mythic raids since forever.

There were literally raids where you couldn't die at the first 8 mythic bosses unless you ignored all the mechanics.

Now it feels without tons of timers, countdowns and weak auras I can mess up every 5 seconds.
Don't forget the tons of immunities that are required starting from the 2nd boss. This should change in the next raid IMHO.

[Nite92]

Weakauras definitely are gamebreaking at times.
The biggest offender I can remember was the Archimonde one with the map for beams which just trivialized the mechanic completely.

But I don't think Weakauras should be removed. It's an excellent addon with a huge variety of uses. I would like to see some more limits put on what it can do though.

The Archimonde thing made Blizz nerf WAs already.

[Elkfingers]

I have been in a top 100 raiding guild my entire life. And I have been in multiple top 50.
I'm confused how your brain is having a hard time understating that. Take a statistics class and learn about sets.

Ok so since birth you raided with your tiny baby hands in one top 100 guild, but you were also in multiple top 50 guilds...so...at the same time? If we're talking sets, the Venn diagram of your raid guild participation is looking like a pepperoni pizza idk.

Maybe you raid 7 days a week. I don't know what you do with your life. I see you didn't address the rest of my post though, presumably because there's literally no way you can back up your position at this point.

[msdos]

Hello everyone, my name is Limit Max. I know what funneling is, 2 target cleave, council, hectic ADD cleave, hectic single target burst, extended burst AOE and I know everything and I'm the world 1st best WoW player... I don't actually play the game, but, who cares bro! I'm the best!

[Thunderball]

So this thread is a bunch of people that have never cleared Mythic bitching about something that has zero influence on them? Also, I guess if you follow your logic then coaches and tactics in any professional sport needs to go too, because UH OH those guys dont actually play the game and they're the most important member of the team.