21'st Man, The reason WA's need to go.

[Azerox]

They're so hard you need computer programmers to create cheat programs to deal with them yeah.

You dont, it just makes it a bit more easy to master.

[Wavebossa]

Don't use weak auras then.

I for one love them and I love configuring my UI in a way that makes sense to my eyes.
I dont think I would even play wow if I was forced into the default UI with no visual aid addons

[Djuntas]

Bosses has gotten way to complicated since cata. That is all. I said this so much before, but you litterally read a book to do mythic raids now a days...

[hulkgor]

The fact you don't consider the world first guilds raid leader the best raid leader, when the world 2nd guild copied him shows you're lost in your anger, you want so desperately to prove me wrong you can't get over the fact you proved yourself wrong in this thread.

This makes no sense. Again. That would be the same as saying that Limit has the best individual 20 raiders in the world.

No. Limit, as a whole, is the best guild right now. Everything else is open to discussion, and everyone will have their opinion, and what to take into account in said discussion.

And finally, what on earth does 'anger' have to do with anything? Are you such an irrational person that you can't accept people having different opinions, and take any contrasting view as unjustified and driven by 'anger'?

Oh boy, why bother.

[willtron]

What else you want to get rid of? DBM? Raid markers? Voice chat?

It's all just "cheating" to make raids easier after all.

What did raids look like before we had all this? Go to Molten Core and have a look. Bosses had like 2 mechanics.

personally I'd be okay with all addons being removed.

[MidnyteTV]

There are multiple reasons why Weak Aura's need to go. They actually limit design encounter, they over whelm new players and essentially make an add on required for any kind of content that matters.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXx8ZhIzdRQ

This video opens a lot of holes.

Max admitting he wasn't a strong enough player to raid lead and play the actual game. Basically making the game 21 man raids instead of 20.
Max said he does it because he knows he's the best at it, but that's very subjective, if WA's go away he can't sit there and simply tell people when to push their buttons.

I'd like to see them go.

I don't think they need to go, but players certainly need to learn to not rely on them as much.

I think parse ranking on Warcraft Logs needs to go, people keep chasing meters and wiping guilds.

[Argorwal]

Maybe you should watch the video, he admits he wasn't good enough to do both and still get world 1st.

Which means we've come to a point where reading out addons at exact moments is more important than the game itself. If you can't kill a boss without addon's the addon shouldn't be in the game.

End of story.

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In actuality there were two fights where weak aura's could hold your hand completely this tier, both of them were so bitterly received by the raiding community blizzard had to change them.

Again, my issues are two fold, and none of them have anything to do with Max personally, I'm using him as an example because he's the "best of the best" and the best of the best, need someone reading out add-ons to be the best.

If you take the add-ons out of the game, suddenly Max doesn't need to be the 21'st man.

Using a 21st man has nothing at all to do with just killing the boss.

It’s about pushing and optimizing to kill that boss 1st, while extremely undergeared. Beating the other guilds is the point of it all.

Killing the boss itself is a foregone conclusion. If they weren’t racing they just could bang it out a week or 2 later with more gear and a much more relaxed pace.

It’s about the race.

[Gorsameth]

Anyone who says they can raid lead and play their class at 100% is simply lying.
Having someone from outside make calls will always be optimal, even without WA looking at someone else's screen and making calls will be a thing.

[Sylv_]

There are multiple reasons why Weak Aura's need to go. They actually limit design encounter, they over whelm new players and essentially make an add on required for any kind of content that matters.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXx8ZhIzdRQ

This video opens a lot of holes.

Max admitting he wasn't a strong enough player to raid lead and play the actual game. Basically making the game 21 man raids instead of 20.
Max said he does it because he knows he's the best at it, but that's very subjective, if WA's go away he can't sit there and simply tell people when to push their buttons.

I'd like to see them go.

Wrong.
Max indicated something so very different than your inept paraphrase.

You're clearly salty about everything you mentioned. It's so very obvious. Troll post.

[mmocfd1b0ab5a3]

WA just uses Lua functions any addon/macros have access to. People would just make new addon?

[Gorsameth]

WA just uses Lua functions any addon/macros have access to. People would just make new addon?

To break an addon is about removing or limiting certain LUA functions.

[Spazzix]

OP, you want Blizzard to lockdown more of the API, WeakAuras are just a way of allowing ***MORE of the playerbase*** to participate in hard content and design their UI the way they want it.

If the API lets you put a shiny border around a dangerous mob, but weakauras-like addons go away, it means instead of copy pasting a weakaura in 5 seconds to do that (because you saw a pro doing it, thought it was cool, and thought it would give you a better gameplay experience) you will now have to download an addon called "shiny border for mob X on raid tier 2 fight 5" to do that. When your guild kills tier 2 fight 5, you will then be told to download standalone addons one by one for the next 5 fights.

You can have an opinion ("I think the 21st man is bad for WoW raiding", "I think addons show players too much information") without proposing pointless and unrelated solutions (get rid of WeakAuras—an addon that has nothing to do with what information Blizzard does or does not allow players to see).

[Tziva]

It's a very weird jump from "playing your best and raid leading are mutually exclusive" to "weakauras shouldn't exist." This is such a bad take, I don't even know where to begin.

First and most obvious: WeakAuras are not mandatory. They are very useful, to the point that many raids might require them especially at the high level, but they are not mandatory to do anything in the game. Quite a lot of players don't use them or use them in a very limited capacity.

All WAs do is take existing information in the game and offer to present it in ways that is more useful to the player, whether that is moving debuff tracking to a location that is easier to see or adding an audio cue or communicating a strategy succinctly. It's stuff that can be done by other addons already. Aside from the fact the base game UI is terrible and not conducive to efficient reading of data, and boss telegraphing is often very bad in this game, UI is a super personal thing. Having the ability to display data in a way that is uniquely readable to an individual is super useful.

Aside from its value just to the average player, it is especially useful as assistive technology for adaptive play for those who might not have the same physical capabilities as other players. I have extremely poor eyesight, so I use large text and audio cues on a lot of things that other people might be able to see better. This is just an adaptation of my needs, on data that is already there. No cheesing or cheating is involved.

I question the claim that a problem with WAs is that they are confusing to new players. New players probably aren't using WA, especially if they find them more confusing than helpful. Frankly, my experience with newcomers to the game is that they don't use addons in general, much less jump into super complex and powerful ones typically used by more serious players. How many new players are there even in a 15 year old game? Probably not enough that they should be relevant to this conversation even if the premise is true.

The argument "if you can't kill a boss without addons, then that addon shouldn't exist" is begging the question. However, even if it is accurate, that's an argument for changing boss design philosophy, not killing the workaround. Why would anyone look at that hypothetical scenario and conclude the problem is addons and not that the boss is apparently unbeatable without it? In this hypothetical scenario, your solution is that people shouldn't be able to kill a boss? It's absurd.

If the core of your opinion is that addons display too much information, or raid encounters have become too complex, or some combination of that, then whatever, agree to disagree. But even if that is your point, the "solution" you've proposed for that is just bad on a lot of levels and doesn't actually address any of these concerns. WAs reflect the complexity of modern encounter design and take advantage of the power of addons, but it didn't cause and isn't the source of either of these things, nor is it a unique offender in that regard.

Ultimately, the ship on all this has sailed on all this anyway and there's no way Blizzard would come back and disallow addons to make bosses simpler for players that are already operating on years and years and years of experience.

[Rupenbritz]

My personal view is that Weakauras should only be able to display buff/debuffs/casts. It being able to assign markers to people with smart backups is way too powerful imo

[RobertMugabe]

Raids are just too hard and there are too many difficulties. WA is fine as it is, it is just a solution to a much bigger problem.

[Xravis]

Right over your head buddy,

He's the BEST in the World, but admits its because of addons

thats the problem

Pls link where he specifically said "I am the best in the world because of add-ons", and again why are you so pressed go download the add-ons they are free then just go join limit I'm sure you got what it takes ezclap

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You mean, he'd go back to actually playing the game. Which is the point.

Man who's point your point to playing the game and his are completely different he's trying to get world first and to him that's only goal. People need to realize were all playing a completely different game to the world top 20. You can do w.e you want in your own raid, play the base ui and you can kill the last boss on heroic and move on.

[Flame6]

Eh, its fine. Sure, if you want to be world 1st you need to make sacrifices. Clearing mythic before the next patch cycle doesnt require WA's.
People who compete for world first are playing an entirely different game than all of us. They make extreme sacrifices to get every edge they can.

[munkeyinorbit]

They're so hard you need computer programmers to create cheat programs to deal with them yeah.

What cheat programs? Use objectivity, not your feels.

[prwraith]

I do tend to enjoy games where addons are kept to a minimum more.

Wow has built itself around addons to the point that not having them, effectively puts you in a completely different game than everyone else.

[Raugnaut]

TBH I've felt that Blizzard should have directly added "Spectator/Raid Leader spots" to Raids (And other content) !@#$ing ages ago, back in Cata when I was actually Raid Leading.