Page 8 of 12 FirstFirst ...
6
7
8
9
10
... LastLast
  1. #141
    Bruuuhhh , The only weakauras I use are buff timers and my own Holy power tracker . Just like the 98% of playerbase use them and find them very useful.

    The concept of external raid leading is cool imo , and it makes sense to have someone assigned to coordinate the players like in any competitive sport scenario.
    OP what's the thing that makes you most butthurt? are you a top 10 Mythic raider? Are you a blizzard encounter designer? Or simply are you just a normal joe complaining about stuff that doesn't affect you in the slightest?
    Gee, of all the shady shit going around RTWF this is probably the least outraging one.

  2. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by Hellobolis View Post
    i never had to do that stuff i just remember most post-progress wipes were because of people being in the wrong spot at the wrong time. usually the first person with 2nd lightning or lightning jumping into melee cause someone didn't know if they were left or right marker.




    Better example in current raid is destroyer. once you have 2-3 deaths on that, in theory a good raidleader can adjust groups on the fly each new miasma, in practise it's just a downward spiral to a wipe. a WA could do that adjustment for you and even tell you when to soak/not to soak, but it's the 3rd boss so it's not tuned that hard so nobody has bothered with it.

    huntsman is bad because it's a "you need x immunes to proceed" fight. and now that i think about it, shamans are also awfull mandatory on several fights. it's almost expected that people reroll for specific fights now, and if nerfing some addons can make it so those requirements can be relaxed i'm all for it.
    Reason why I brought up Huntsman is because of the soak order and if you get targeted while you need to immunity soak for others you need to adjust on the fly. Similar to Ra'den. I think we are straying towards just talking about good / bad design with bosses which is fine, but it's not the original point which is that Ra'den WA never was "required" or necessity and very few bosses, if any, requires an WA.

    Hungering markers are deployed by bigwigs and dbm and people just need to move to said markers and then back to your own group.
    We got another WA similar to Ra'den for hungering but even that one was unnecessary since you start to learn when you should soak and when you should not based on the boss mechanics which always comes in the same order at the same time in the fight.

    Also I don't really agree on that it's the raider leaders job to keep track of everything in a fight... if one of our groups got to few people because all of them got the miasma that group should say "hey we are short at X marker" and then raid leader calls 1-2 people to go to that marker for this miasma round.

  3. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by Grax View Post
    WeakAuras is a response to a problem, not the problem itself. With the current class design, and without WA, I end up tunneling my action bars pretty bad.
    This. If I didn't have WeakAuras, I'd spend 90% of my time staring at my action bar. I just use WeakAuras to have a much more clear view of my abilities, cooldowns, etc. so I don't have to tunnelvision my action bar.

  4. #144
    Quote Originally Posted by Gasparde View Post
    That's not true. Watch Paragon's first kill vid and you'll see them play the fight without the player position radar thing. Yes, they were still using a WA, but what they came up with had absolutely nothing to do with relative player positions.
    Literally used an addon telling people where to position themselves, yes it wasn't as sophisticated as the solutions that came after but the point stands that Wrought Chaos was an impossible ability to handle without an addon.

  5. #145
    Quote Originally Posted by Aurrora View Post
    Literally used an addon telling people where to position themselves, yes it wasn't as sophisticated as the solutions that came after but the point stands that Wrought Chaos was an impossible ability to handle without an addon.
    And what's the problem with that? If you have the data that everyone playing your game is using addons... why not build encounters around everyone using addons?
    You act like having addons installed somehow makes your game harder/worse. Take addons away and a fight like Archimonde would've lost like half of its mechanics (most importantly, the most impactful mechanics) - boy oh boy, Archimonde whit P1 being nothing but picking up embers and grabbing a light orb every now and then surely sounds exciting... maybe they could have even added a dispellable debuff into the mix!

  6. #146
    Yeah I agree. Addons make the raid way easier.

    Like a Weak Aura that yells someone's HP percentage during Hungering Destroyer Miasma. Without it you'd have to either soak the full Miasma ( leading to more dmg taken by the raid because of stacks ) or you'd need to monitor their HP, which distracts you and lowers your DPS.

  7. #147
    Master of the Void The Dark One's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    The Void
    Posts
    1,986
    Quote Originally Posted by bloodwulf View Post
    I'm not sure how you took any of that from what i said. I never blamed WA, i even said without them something else would take its place. Raid Leading and performing a primary role take an equal amount of focus, and if you commit to doing both, one or both degrade in quality. The video OP was talking about Max goes over this extensively, talking about mental bandwidth available. Also you must not of watched any of Method or Limits streams during progression, because even using a 21st man they still had some people calling out things, no one was "afraid to let go". Also there is such thing as too many Chefs in the kitchen. If you have everyone talking, no one does anything. To assume that Max is not delegating, or that Method's raid leads are not delegating is laughable.
    Calm down mate.

    Learn to use paragraphs.
    Fundamental civil rights are only "political" if you're trying to take them away from people.

  8. #148
    Quote Originally Posted by Aurrora View Post
    Literally used an addon telling people where to position themselves, yes it wasn't as sophisticated as the solutions that came after but the point stands that Wrought Chaos was an impossible ability to handle without an addon.


    The Method WA made Wrought Chaos significantly easier to handle but Paragon used pre-planned positions and numbers to handle the Wrought Chaos.

  9. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by ztkraptor View Post
    Umm...you literally are explaining a script.
    You would be surprised how difficult it is to have people follow basic tasks without failing. Saying "Everyone would be 10/10 if it was just scripted"

    Dude, these add ons literally tell you where to stand, when to run, where to run to, how long until the next boss ability so on and so forth.


    Is it your position that mythic raiding would be fully cleared without any of these addons enabled? All 20 players will be able to fight the boss without having any addons tell them when something is occuring or when to run, or how to line up or how far to stand from one another?
    Yeah obviously you could. The whole 'script' thing is just semantics and I have no time for it lol. A chef has to follow a set of instructions to cook a dish, but even if somebody is giving you instructions you're not going to be able to bang out a 2 Michelin star standard dish without already having the skills to follow those instructions properly.

    The fact that you're being given prompts about how to handle mechanics doesn't suddenly remove all skill requirements when it comes to handling them effectively.

    Legit dude, if you think you just have to follow a script, go trial for Limit lmao. Such a dumb take.

  10. #150
    Quote Originally Posted by Corroc View Post
    So you think raids are too hard?
    yes .

    they have have be too hard and overtuned for years now - since cata it was only worse and worse

    there is a reason why WoLK was golden age of both game as whole and raiding.

    because it was tuned perfecly.

    after that it went downhill and so went game overall.

    this is direct fault of catering only to top 5%.

    CN is prime example of that - you have so many overlaps of mechanics even on hc that it makes many encounters simply not fun . also stuff hits for way way to much effectively 1-2 shoting you if you fuck up even once and many times you have split seconds to make decisions even in very hectiv sitations. very very unfun design .
    Last edited by kamuimac; 2021-02-21 at 09:41 PM.

  11. #151
    Both DBM and WAs have to go. With DBM and WAs, raid design will always be an arms race vs. addon creators with ever growing complexity.

  12. #152
    Quote Originally Posted by Aurrora View Post
    Are you joking? Mythic Archimonde's Wrought Chaos was impossible to handle without an addon showing everyone's positioning.

  13. #153
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilfire View Post
    Both DBM and WAs have to go. With DBM and WAs, raid design will always be an arms race vs. addon creators with ever growing complexity.
    DBM are just inverse combat timer...
    Start a combat timer and then you learn by which minute X mechanic start etc etc...

  14. #154
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormbreed View Post
    There are multiple reasons why Weak Aura's need to go. They actually limit design encounter, they over whelm new players and essentially make an add on required for any kind of content that matters.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXx8ZhIzdRQ

    This video opens a lot of holes.

    Max admitting he wasn't a strong enough player to raid lead and play the actual game. Basically making the game 21 man raids instead of 20.
    Max said he does it because he knows he's the best at it, but that's very subjective, if WA's go away he can't sit there and simply tell people when to push their buttons.

    I'd like to see them go.
    No


    /10chars

  15. #155
    The need for a 21st player as raid leader at world first level would actually go up with no addons. Not down.

  16. #156
    Quote Originally Posted by apustus View Post
    Literally using an addon that's dynamically assigning people's positions.

  17. #157
    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    That sounds like a "Max" issue and not an "everyone else" issue. I've had no issue leading encounters without WA and I rarely use it for anything. I can think of only two encounters in the last two raid tiers that I've even used a WA for. It's not required and people can get along fine without it.
    I dont use addons for LFR either dude, we are the same! now can you give a proper example and not compare your nonexistant experience to a world first raider? thanks.

  18. #158
    Quote Originally Posted by Aurrora View Post
    Literally using an addon that's dynamically assigning people's positions.
    But are they?

    I know the answer and its no, there is no addon involved there

  19. #159
    Quote Originally Posted by Elkfingers View Post
    Yeah obviously you could. The whole 'script' thing is just semantics and I have no time for it lol. A chef has to follow a set of instructions to cook a dish, but even if somebody is giving you instructions you're not going to be able to bang out a 2 Michelin star standard dish without already having the skills to follow those instructions properly.

    The fact that you're being given prompts about how to handle mechanics doesn't suddenly remove all skill requirements when it comes to handling them effectively.

    Legit dude, if you think you just have to follow a script, go trial for Limit lmao. Such a dumb take.
    I was already in multiple top 50 world raiding guilds...
    You would be surprised how mad some raid leaders get and how many people get replaced for not following the script.

    And yes, you can make food just as good as a whatever star chef, so long as you have their tools(aka gear) just by following the script.
    What do you think they do? Put a spell on the food? It is quite literally following instructions to make the food...
    It is less about their "skill" and more about their tools that they have to accomplish the stuff.


    Again, turn off the add-ons and I bet you bosses at this level don't die.
    Its a problem because add-ons force blizzard to make fights more and more intense and hard because you essentially are playing against people following a script and don't really have a dynamic to it.

  20. #160
    Quote Originally Posted by ztkraptor View Post
    Its a problem because add-ons force blizzard to make fights more and more intense and hard because you essentially are playing against people following a script and don't really have a dynamic to it.
    It is the other way around. Because blizzard is trying so hard to counter top world guilds, all the rest suffers. Tools will exist regardless. But if the need (demand) to have such elaborate addons/wa would go down because of SIMPLER encounter designs, the supply will also go down.

    Nobody forces blizzard, thats ridiculous.
    Last edited by kaminaris; 2021-02-22 at 02:03 PM.
    BfA > Wotlk > Cata > ... > SL > WoD ~ TBC > Vanilla > ................ ? .............. > Legion
    You said corruption was great system. Can't find it and proceeds to lie again.
    Legendaries were such a great system I had them all before blizz lifted softcap

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •