I hope we will get fresh Classic TBC servers

[satella]

The irony in what you just stated is that whether servers are fresh or not, the economy is gonna be screwed cause guess what.....Vanilla, TBC and Wotlk professions and mats where a thing so yes stuff is gonna be expensive. These classic servers are gonna be played by people who know whats worth farming or not. Guess what...Blacksmiths and Miners are gonna have a field day in TBC whether its a fresh server or not and in fact fresh servers are gonna have it worse cause of supply and demand issues.

It's a strange thing, not to want people to get what they enjoy, even if you lose absolutely nothing in the process.

Because you won't enjoy fresh servers, nobody should enjoy fresh servers. You should really step back and examine what it is you're really saying.

[Malacrass]

It's a strange thing, not to want people to get what they enjoy, even if you lose absolutely nothing in the process.

This baffled me at first as well, but they do lose something: the advantage they would have over completely fresh players. On their saturated realms they will be one of many who prepared themselves with mats, gold and alts after all - they need the plebs in order to feel validated.
It's a bit like the fable of the ant and the grasshopper.

And of course there is the lingering fear that fresh servers might even be the more popular choice in general, with the added threat that they might be indirectly forced to play on them as well (because their guild collectively rerolls or their friends want to start fresh). It's a legitimate fear, fresh starts do have a certain appeal. The various ladder systems count on it after all.

thanks man! got any evidence? so i can shove it directly in those whiny as....i mean faces of those kids

Evidence for what? TBC realms?

https://wowwiki-archive.fandom.com/w...stlands_Europe

[oplawlz]

Isn't it wonderful for you then to, you know, not have to do that and continue playing on existing servers? I want fresh servers because I don't want the economy fucked the moment TBC launches.

That wouldn't be a very authentic BC experience.

[Marxman]

thanks man! got any evidence? so i can shove it directly in those whiny as....i mean faces of those kids

https://wowwiki-archive.fandom.com/w...n_of_US_realms

There were 6 NA realms launched between TBC pre-patch and TBC launch day. There was an additional server launched 1 day after TBC launched.

Edit: actually it was *much* more than that. There were 6 instances of new server launches, most of which included many new servers. 24 new servers launched from TBC pre-patch to TBC launch day.

[satella]

This baffled me at first as well, but they do lose something: the advantage they would have over completely fresh players. On their saturated realms they will be one of many who prepared themselves with mats, gold and alts after all - they need the plebs in order to feel validated.
It's a bit like the fable of the ant and the grasshopper.

And of course there is the lingering fear that fresh servers might even be the more popular choice in general, with the added threat that they might be indirectly forced to play on them as well (because their guild collectively rerolls or their friends want to start fresh). It's a legitimate fear, fresh starts do have a certain appeal. The various ladder systems count on it after all.

Of course fresh servers will be more popular. The Blizzard polls only went out to those currently subscribed to WoW, so once again Blizzard is completely out of touch and clueless.

I mean, they held a roundtable discussion of TBC Classic, with three people talking about their feelings, while not realizing that Season 1 gear is the equivalent to Tier 4.

[MiiiMiii]

From a technical standpoint it's probably quite complex to introduce what we want.

First of all we want fresh TBC servers that don't have an inflated economy.
Probably another argument is that we want to level together the whole server.

That means we have to block anyone from "normal" TBC servers from transfering to our server and bring their gold. This has never been done before.

Second of all are the people on these "fresh TBC servers" supposed to be able to transfer to the other "fresh TBC servers"? How about transfering from a "fresh TBC server" to a "inflated TBC server"?

You really are making the server selection UI way more complex too. How are you supposed to indicate the different servers, and witch ones of them are "fresh" vs "inflated"?

Also, I assume that the "fresh TBC servers" we don't want to allow the lvl 58 boost? How are they supposed to indicate that the 58 boost does not work on some servers, but works on others?

This is also the case for "fresh phase 1 Classic servers", as it would face many of the same issues as we are talking about here.

[Raugnaut]

The new Talent Tree style is why I quit Retail. Once the MoP showed me what they were going forward with, I unsubbed.

The sad thing is that the MoP version of the new talent tree was also the best version of that system.

[satella]

From a technical standpoint it's probably quite complex to introduce what we want.

First of all we want fresh TBC servers that don't have an inflated economy.
Probably another argument is that we want to level together the whole server.

That means we have to block anyone from "normal" TBC servers from transfering to our server and bring their gold. This has never been done before.

Second of all are the people on these "fresh TBC servers" supposed to be able to transfer to the other "fresh TBC servers"? How about transfering from a "fresh TBC server" to a "inflated TBC server"?

You really are making the server selection UI way more complex too. How are you supposed to indicate the different servers, and witch ones of them are "fresh" vs "inflated"?

Also, I assume that the "fresh TBC servers" we don't want to allow the lvl 58 boost? How are they supposed to indicate that the 58 boost does not work on some servers, but works on others?

This is also the case for "fresh phase 1 Classic servers", as it would face many of the same issues as we are talking about here.

No fresh servers, no money from me. If Blizzard can't somehow figure it out, I'll move on with my life, plenty of games out there.

I do want to make my voice heard though, just in case some Blizzard employee is lurking on these forums.

If they don't do fresh, they're losing out on so much money.

[Malacrass]

From a technical standpoint it's probably quite complex to introduce what we want.

First of all we want fresh TBC servers that don't have an inflated economy.
Probably another argument is that we want to level together the whole server.

That means we have to block anyone from "normal" TBC servers from transfering to our server and bring their gold. This has never been done before.

Blocking transfers to certain realms isn't new though, I mean we were also not able to transfer from PVE to PVP after all. So it's definitely possible to restrict transfers, either completely or (more likely) for 2-3 months until the first content patch drops. Gold restrictions were also always in place, changing the number from 3000g to 100g shouldn't be an issue.

Second of all are the people on these "fresh TBC servers" supposed to be able to transfer to the other "fresh TBC servers"? How about transfering from a "fresh TBC server" to a "inflated TBC server"?

I imagine it similiar to realms being flagged with free transfers in the past. They can block and lift restrictions as they see fit.

You really are making the server selection UI way more complex too. How are you supposed to indicate the different servers, and witch ones of them are "fresh" vs "inflated"?

Similiar to the *Full* and *Recommended* tag, or the PVE and R-PVE tag? You can call them pristine realms, give them Burning Crusade names (like they did back then, see Ghostlands etc.).
But what's most important, they will sooner or later need a name for it, as they're planning fresh Classic Realms anyway. But only once the dust settled on TBC.

Also, I assume that the "fresh TBC servers" we don't want to allow the lvl 58 boost? How are they supposed to indicate that the 58 boost does not work on some servers, but works on others?

See above, they have to come up with a tag & infrastructure for fresh realms sooner or later. They probably won't go for a name that makes the other realms look inferior, like they certainly won't call them "fresh" realms (implying the old ones are rotten), but it's just a matter of time.

Personally I believe they will release fresh TBC realms, but only communicate it shortly before release. If they announce them now it would just discourage people from preparing for the expansion, leading to a loss of subs worst case.

[Tojara]

I sort of agree that there should be fresh Classic TBC servers, even if I'm not going to be playing on them.

The issue with them is that they would have to lay a lot of ground work and rules around these types of servers to begin with, and just like everything, everyone will have a different opinion on how they should be approached. How many servers do you make? Do you lock transfers to and from these fresh servers forever? Do you allow transfers between fresh servers only? Is there a point where you unlock the ability to transfer to these servers from any server, and if so, at what phase?

It obviously isn't impossible, but it's not as simple as just make fresh start Classic TBC servers.

On another subject a lot of gold being around isn't necessarily a bad thing. The inflation works both ways, even to new players entering the game without much gold. Resources (cooldowns) and gathering professions are going to make you as much as people are willing to pay for them. While it might be expensive to those entering without that much gold, you also have an opportunity to make a shit load of gold selling those things to people (it's going to be relative to how much gold is in the economy). Lastly static gold costs (mounts, ability training, talent tree resets, etc) are all flat fixed amounts of gold, making it easier to get these things because of the gold inflation entering the economy.

At the end of the day I think they just wanted to do things that make it as easy as possible and not that messy. Having non-progressive servers, progressive servers, fresh start servers and then rulesets attached to each and every one of them is probably too much micromanaging and red tape for them to even bother with. Adding an additional layer like some have suggested (gold resets, limited gold transfers) is just another set of rules and stipulations that make it more difficult to traverse. Thus as it stands (at least for now), just having two different server types is the option they took.

[Th3Scourge]

Question.

Is it the same server that will be progressing to TBC realms? I don't want to lose my reserved names

[kail]

there will be fresh tbc servers
when wotlk classic releases

Those will be transferred characters, not fresh.

[arboachg]

That wouldn't be a very authentic BC experience.

Exactly how?

[ztkraptor]

Spoiler alert: TBC had a meta, too and, just like on Classic, people will expect it to be followed.

OP: What, you don't want an authentic TBC experience?

You don't really know what you are saying.

ppl didn't have 100,000 gold going into TBC... Guilds barely had anything near that.

[Dastreus]

Everything in TBC will be too expensive for new players. There needs to be new realms with locked transfers.

yeah this. I thought about reupping my sub for tbc classic, but the idea of many coming in with tons of gold means the markets are going to be catering to them, instead of new players.

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someone being optimistic. Make sure to roll the proper class & spec in BC.

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We should have classic servers up at all times.

There should also be fresh BC servers.


cant wait for what Blizzard has in store for this. Lots of people are hoarding gold on classic in hopes of taking it all with them to bc.

rofl bro. Metas have been a thing since vanilla.

[zhorteye]

They already told us we arent getting fresh servers for launch.. And to those of you saying that its a F*cked economy, let me tell you something..

Its literally the same as moving from BFA to Shadowlands… Theres always going to be people with enough gold to last them the whole expansion… And retail is even worse at this, The economy is LITERALLY so f*cked up on retail, that items that shouldnt be worth -ANYTHING- is worth Thousands… Atleast the prices on classic is achievable…

And here is where you come with the “well you get gold slower on classic than retail” Well, No… You really dont… Look at the community conversion rate… 1 classic gold is about 200-350G, depending on who you trade with, Theres flasks on Classic selling for 165G. lets be conservative here and use 275 as the conversion rate (1:275) which means 1 flask selling for 165G would be equal to 1 flask selling for 45375G on retail… THIS shows just how f*cked up the retail economy is… so people complaining that bringing gold from classic to BC:C is screwing up the economy, NO it really wont… There were people back then entering TBC with Gold cap, and there is this time aswell…
Sure, theres more people with gold cap, but theres also more people playing classic than there were back then… and people are better now, knows more about how to efficiently farm gold etc.

[oplawlz]

Exactly how?

BC wasn't a standalone game. It was an expansion, and just like with classic some people had been playing since launch and had more gold than others. The difference was that in 2007 gamers were less entitled and understood that people who put more time and effort into an mmo had more stuff than them, and that was ok.

[Echocho]

why add another bunch of realms to the already existing ones with low populations ?

This is the key point. Unless we overpopulate the existing servers it would be a complete waste of money to add more. It would also cannibalize servers that may already be struggling population wise.

Once the game launches I'm sure they'll monitor the situation and if existing servers become jam packed they'll add fresh ones and allow us to migrate over to those.

[Heathy]

I'm happy there will be some economy rather than no economy, because it was just created, these realms have had churn, they have low end mats being posted. the thing about games like this is nothing is finite, you can actually just farm anything you think you need yourself, and have it cost nothing. even if you can't farm the thing you need you most definitely can farm something else and trade/sell that for the thing you need. its never such that, you can't progress because you don't have enough gold. or you can't progress because some else has more gold than you.

its 6k gold per alt for epic flying, if you make 10 alts and want epic flying on all of them that 60k gold.

in wrath you have the mammoth, 16k gold. i've got 200g, would it make sense to reset everyones gold for wrath, while there are gold sinks into the 20-30k region? i think the game is balance around there being a lot of gold, because at some point you can list whatever the hell you want for whatever price you want, but if its quicker to go grind that item, than it would be to go grind thousands of gold, that item ain't gunna sell.

you can try to sell flasks for 1000g per flask, but they won't sell if it takes longer to grind 1000g than it does to grind 1 flask. this principle alone makes sure that all of the high churn items never become too over inflated. because at some point there is a cross over between how much gold you can grind, in the same time it would take to grind that one item.


at this stage, the price of righteous orbs and arcane crystals on my server is between 35-40g for both of them, for a while the righteous orbs and arcane crystals were at about 50g when naxx came out, you could sell arcanite bars for about 70g but now its dropped down again to 40g.

seems as though as time went on, things didn't get more expensive, they simply got cheaper, and the demand got less. meanwhile the supply, which is infinite, stayed the same.

[Malacrass]

This is the key point. Unless we overpopulate the existing servers it would be a complete waste of money to add more.

As you can see in this thread and on reddit: no fresh realms effectively means a large group of people won't be playing at all (or at least they consider not to).
At least I would consider losing players a greater loss than the few bucks extra low pop realms would cost them. Worst case they can still merge as they see fit after all, just like they're merging the toons that are transferred to eternal classic realms (yes, we will have the realm names added back to the characters, just like in retail).

Either way, the efficiency argument flies out of the window the moment we're basically talking about a new game mode, or better said a completely different gaming environment provided. And yes, those who said that fresh TBC realms also had downsides are 100% right, I experienced TBC on one after all. It wasn't always pretty, especially when it concerned endgame raiding. Hell I remember our raid leader rerolling a Holy Paladin for Brutalus because we simply didn't have one and couldn't find one on Horde (and those you could find were either extremely low skilled or didn't want to heal, 2007 style).

But regardless, I would still prefer that experience over starting on a well-saturated realm any day, especially if I would start fresh without a 60 available for transfer.

Personally speaking, the Vanilla experience was the important thing for me in this whole classic deal, if they want to water down TBC now (for whatever good or bad reason) then whatever.