Sylvanas Windrunner Raid Boss: The Big Elephant in the Room

[ohwell]

I feel like they've invested way too much into Sylvanas, both character development and game marketing, for her to be killed off in a mid-expansion tier raid.

Exactly. Meanwhile people complain about Azshara and Nzoth when both made sense. Then again let's be honest BFA was just a huge prepatch for Shadowlands. The same can't really be said of others. The plot for BFA was literally Sylvanas doing things specifically to feed the Jailer. Legion's plot was stopping the Legion, whereas anything BFA related was fairly background level. WoD's plot was stopping the Iron Horde and Guldan was simply a background threat etc.

[Kithelle]

Remember when Garrosh died at the end of MoP?

Would be nice if we could bring her to justice, but honestly I'm expecting a Grommash ending, not a Garrosh ending...

[mickybrighteyes]

Remember when Garrosh died at the end of MoP?

or the time Jaina died in that city raid?

People want to kill Sylvanas they're better off hitting up classic and raiding UC or the End Times dungeon

[DargorDraconis]

That is VERY weird in how she says it. You can take it two ways: She'll "always be there" in the dungeon and the raid essentially immortalized or that she isn't going to die and that it is just similar to a false version of her. It could be the idea people were floating around that there are two versions of Uther and Sylvanas as we saw Uther in Icecrown. Did it happen naturally to everyone or did Uther's prayer allow him to split? I mean I don't really think it's a blessing to condemn one half of his soul and to send the other to Bastion so one would assume it was just what happens to everyone. If that is true then perhaps it was really the first version of Sylvanas that the Jailer got his claws into and made a swap at some point(possibly the suicide considering the suicide is practically a retcon at this point as nothing in it makes sense to what she saw). It could be that she got sent to Ardenweald being that she was a hunter and druids and hunters can go there and unlike Bastion they threw her into the maw seeing the mark whereas Bastion though their methods would purge the mark from Uther.

Just shooting some ideas, no way implying they're what actually happen, but 1 of those options could be possible whereas I doubt the whole thing I wrote would work together.

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She's literally saying NONE of us have control and that's why she's siding with him. That is the entire point of what she did. Have you not watched a single cinematic?

Ofc a villain trying to corrupt a hero is a reiable source of information right?
she have nerver lied before right?

[mickybrighteyes]

Would be nice if we could bring her to justice, but honestly I'm expecting a Grommash ending, not a Garrosh ending...

yeah. bonus points if it's Sylvanas raising an overly marketable merchandise option shouting something like "life is free!" or something to that effect.

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Ofc a villain trying to corrupt a hero is a reiable source of information right?
she have nerver lied before right?

actually, Sylvanas had a pretty damn good track record of being painfully honest when Anduin was present. Besides... he is a walking lie detector who can feel malice and ill intent (canon powers post divine bell storyline). I think they would milk that a bit more given Golden's usage of it in her works.

[ohwell]

Ofc a villain trying to corrupt a hero is a reiable source of information right?
she have nerver lied before right?

Sure, and yet we still have people quoting every single old god statement as fact when they LITERALLY by canon tell you a thousand lies for every truth but tell you lies specifically that sound very true but are definitely lies.

Her case is different as she looks like she's actually telling the truth and torn. When has she actively lied in a cinematic anyway? She doesn't seem to be the type that actually lies short of the misdirection at Darkshore. She'd rather slap you in the face with the truth.

Also you're claiming she's lying about that then I can easily say "Well how do you not know she's lying about working for the jailer and wanting his plans?" Sorry neither works. She wasn't lying.

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yeah. bonus points if it's Sylvanas raising an overly marketable merchandise option shouting something like "life is free!" or something to that effect.

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actually, Sylvanas had a pretty damn good track record of being painfully honest when Anduin was present. Besides... he is a walking lie detector who can feel malice and ill intent (canon powers post divine bell storyline). I think they would milk that a bit more given Golden's usage of it in her works.

I mean she loves telling the truth more than lying especially when it hurts anyone not just him. However, she actually seemed sad and sincere there.

[DargorDraconis]

yeah. bonus points if it's Sylvanas raising an overly marketable merchandise option shouting something like "life is free!" or something to that effect.

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actually, Sylvanas had a pretty damn good track record of being painfully honest when Anduin was present. Besides... he is a walking lie detector who can feel malice and ill intent (canon powers post divine bell storyline). I think they would milk that a bit more given Golden's usage of it in her works.

If she was honest and he trusted her why they had to force him into service?
Looking at the last cinematic he is obviously mind controlled

[Kithelle]

yeah. bonus points if it's Sylvanas raising an overly marketable merchandise option shouting something like "life is free!" or something to that effect.

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actually, Sylvanas had a pretty damn good track record of being painfully honest when Anduin was present. Besides... he is a walking lie detector who can feel malice and ill intent (canon powers post divine bell storyline). I think they would milk that a bit more given Golden's usage of it in her works.

Will that include a big grin on her face like when she yelled "For the Horde" in the first BFA cinematic, so we know she *means it*?

[bagina]

That is VERY weird in how she says it. You can take it two ways: She'll "always be there" in the dungeon and the raid essentially immortalized or that she isn't going to die and that it is just similar to a false version of her. It could be the idea people were floating around that there are two versions of Uther and Sylvanas as we saw Uther in Icecrown. Did it happen naturally to everyone or did Uther's prayer allow him to split? I mean I don't really think it's a blessing to condemn one half of his soul and to send the other to Bastion so one would assume it was just what happens to everyone. If that is true then perhaps it was really the first version of Sylvanas that the Jailer got his claws into and made a swap at some point(possibly the suicide considering the suicide is practically a retcon at this point as nothing in it makes sense to what she saw). It could be that she got sent to Ardenweald being that she was a hunter and druids and hunters can go there and unlike Bastion they threw her into the maw seeing the mark whereas Bastion though their methods would purge the mark from Uther.

My interpretation of her tweets is "Hey, you've already fought Sylvanas in a raid and she was fine, remember? Soo...", and that cheeky emoticon seems to enforce that. Could be just me.

[ohwell]

My interpretation of her tweets is "Hey, you've already fought Sylvanas in a raid and she was fine, remember? Soo...", and that cheeky emoticon seems to enforce that. Could be just me.

Except we didn't. We fought a future version of her that is no longer our timeline. I mean it's weird to relate it to an alternate version and simply have the current version escape.

[omeomorfismo]

since when is Undercity a kingdom?

since the forsaken won the plaguelands civil wars

[The Council]

since the forsaken won the plaguelands civil wars

since when is a city a kingdom?

[omeomorfismo]

I'm still waiting for Arthas to willingly ally himself with the Jailer, tbf.

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When Sylvanas

Genocided the Night Elves, raised her own soldiers as mindless undead slaves, reduced living people to goo, used chemical weapons in order to quickly cleanse the land, including her own territory, of enemies.

Attempted to enslave a val'kyr watcher for her own betterment, betrayed the people she was leading and went behind their back to scheme with multiple of their enemies, including leading them into a trap at Nazjatar. Oh, and allied with the Jailer, who isn't a good friend of ours either.

And that's just off the top of my head.

he just allied himself with the burning legion but ok...

but anyway, how using the plague to cleanse forsaken territory should be bad? isnt like that the forsaken have any use for fertile land...

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since when is a city a kingdom?

i think thats the point when the guy counted uc as "half kingdom"...

[Jastall]

since when is Undercity a kingdom?

Since it's literally ruled by a Queen, unless you're just going out of your way to be pointlessly pedantic and want me to call it a queendom because you ignored the rest of the post.

[The Council]

Since it's literally ruled by a Queen, unless you're just going out of your way to be pointlessly pedantic and want me to call it a queendom because you ignored the rest of the post.

Undercity is a city under a city. it is not a kingdom.

[Jastall]

Undercity is a city under a city. it is not a kingdom.

Yeah, pointlessly pedantic as I assumed. Not even sure what you're trying to prove and I doubt any but yourself actually think that line of reasoning has any value.

[Magical Mudcrab]

since when is a city a kingdom?

Well, first off, city-states, second-off, every "kingdom" in this game is more-or-less based around a single city, third-off, the Forsaken ruled an area about the size that Stormwind does(geographically, at least), owning Trisftal Glades, Silverpine Forest, Hillsbrad Foothills, and Gilneas, with their territory also extending into Plaguelands (keep in mind they won Andorhal, giving them the major foothold in the region). If you want to claim the Forsaken did not have their own kingdom, then literally no other race has one either.

[The Council]

Well, first off, city-states, second-off, every "kingdom" in this game is more-or-less based around a single city, third-off, the Forsaken ruled an area about the size that Stormwind does(geographically, at least), owning Trisftal Glades, Silverpine Forest, Hillsbrad Foothills, and Gilneas, with their territory also extending into Plaguelands (keep in mind they won Andorhal, giving them the major foothold in the region). If you want to claim the Forsaken did not have their own kingdom, then literally no other race has one either.

i didnt claim anything.
I am only pointed out that Sylvanas did not destroy her kingdom. she only blew up a city.
She also only destroyed 1 kingdom and that was the Night elves.

[Yarathir]

he just allied himself with the burning legion but ok...

Was that before or after Kil'jaeden sent Illidan to try and kill him?

but anyway, how using the plague to cleanse forsaken territory should be bad? isnt like that the forsaken have any use for fertile land...

"Using chemical warfare isn't bad because it doesn't affect the forsaken."

Oh, okay then.

[Soon-TM]

For sure. She's now a conflicted soul because her "little lion" got involved. They're setting her up to hack in and sloppily glue more nuance to her than she's had for most of the story.

It's curious, she never gave a flying s**t about others' choices (or rather, lack thereof), but now she suddenly starts caring once the God King is involved.