Sylvanas Windrunner Raid Boss: The Big Elephant in the Room

[Syegfryed]

I think it was a combination of couple of things that made it bad.. My view on the elf thing is that its still a fantasy game. So it doesnt matter for me realy, hell even if she was a undead furbolg the fact that she wa/is very popular character that had potential, more so then garrosh

it does matter because how the horde is, the horde is a faction made of orcs, the warchief is the leader of the orcish clans who command the other chieftains, even when other races joined the warchief stayed orc because the body and heart of the horde is orcs, just like the alliance with humans. Orgrimmar, the city of orcs, is the capital of the horde, the races close to then, trolls, taurens and even goblins, share similar mindset, philosphy and even religion with orcs, thats why an warchief staying orc made sense and was believable, hell even a troll could pass.

But when you literally put a foreigner , an evil one, in charge of people she know nothing about and don't even care about, is a receipt for disaster, thats why forsakens and blood elves, which are minority and don't share the culture of the majority of the horde, make no sense to take the leadership

When it turned out as a garrosh 2.0 story was the start when it slowly went downhill. The narrative in combination with the pointless war with no outcome. I also thought Vol jin also had potential, we saw how that turned out.

the moment vol'jin was killed, the way he did, it went downhill. Naming her was just the nail the coffin, no one would expect her to be anything better than Garrosh was when she is worse than him.

Anyway, shes wasted and like I said I cant.think of any groundbreaking thing that will save her story at this point.

killing her for good, making her pay for her crimes will do good and be satisfactory for a bunch of people, i at least can't stand they forcing her anymore

[Annedrooo]

I'm thinking that everyone on that list except Sylvanas, Anduin and the Jailer are gonna symbolically cleanse Anduin which will spoil Sylvanas's plan. Then with Anduin included they'll all join hands or something and it'll destroy Sylvanas through the power of life and/or hope.

[TheramoreIsTheBomb]

The Jailor needs to be an option.

He is. His name is Zovaal.

[Alanar]

it does matter because how the horde is, the horde is a faction made of orcs, the warchief is the leader of the orcish clans who command the other chieftains, even when other races joined the warchief stayed orc because the body and heart of the horde is orcs, just like the alliance with humans. Orgrimmar, the city of orcs, is the capital of the horde, the races close to then, trolls, taurens and even goblins, share similar mindset, philosphy and even religion with orcs, thats why an warchief staying orc made sense and was believable, hell even a troll could pass.

I would say to that.. times change. That is how it started yes, but it's nothing like that anymore and the horded now with a council and a lot more toleratebale who is welcome. I don't care for personal opinion on what you like better, not the point, the point still stand that it was just a matter of a weird and all over the place narrative with Sylvanas. Garrosh had a sense of story.. altho it was bad imo, but luckily it came to a closure. not to long afther.

They could have gone an entire different direction and I maybe would have liked it, nothing to do with being undead/elf/vegan or creaming orc imo.

[Valysar]

No one, she lives, and she helps us killing the Jailer

[Syegfryed]

I would say to that.. times change. That is how it started yes,

change for the worse, like it was showed.

They could have gone an entire different direction and I maybe would have liked it, nothing to do with being undead/elf/vegan or creaming orc imo.

if you put an evil villain in the leadership, the only direction is downhill, you can't expect much out of it, unless they retcon the entire character.

[Alanar]

if you put an evil villain in the leadership, the only direction is downhill, you can't expect much out of it, unless they retcon the entire character.

Not persee, just a matter of bad writing.

The change was fine.. orcs only would have never survived and realy stale which is also shown in game.

[Syegfryed]

Not persee, just a matter of bad writing.

if you jump in the river you get wet, this isn't bad writing, is a matter of folowing the logic of the situation, good writing can't salvage that

The change was fine.. orcs only would have never survived and realy stale which is also shown in game.

again, the change was made the horde to be a joke and basically a subservient state of the alliance, if it would have survived or not that is a matter of bad or good writing.

see how im not talking about the council.

[Maljinwo]

Anduin is such a good golden boi that he even stirs Sylvanas genocidal heart

You can't make this up

[Alanar]

if you jump in the river you get wet, this isn't bad writing, is a matter of folowing the logic of the situation, good writing can't salvage that



again, the change was made the horde to be a joke and basically a subservient state of the alliance, if it would have survived or not that is a matter of bad or good writing.

see how im not talking about the council.

The story was all over the place and like I said if it that had a different direction it could have been better, again nothing to do with who the warchief is. It's not like Vol'jin or garrosh story was any better. So saying it was doomed from the point Sylvanas became warchief is meaningless, cus then you should have said it was doomed afther thrall. Which also doesn't say anything to me either, just bad story.

The horde becoming a joke, cus I guess you mean you don't like it because reasons ( no more orcs only?)
The council is for the better, warchief is a dated title and should have been removed way earlier.

[Syegfryed]

The story was all over the place and like I said if it that had a different direction it could have been better, again nothing to do with who the warchief is. It's not like Vol'jin or garrosh story was any better.

both of their stories were better, Garrosh was a better villain all together, and he start as not a villain, but as a character with flaws

So saying it was doomed from the point Sylvanas became warchief is meaningless, cus then you should have said it was doomed afther thrall. Which also doesn't say anything to me either, just bad story.

it is doomed after sylvanas because its when started the downhill, it made no sense to kill vol'jin after what happened to mop, and made no sense to put her in that position, again was DOA, is not a matter of they could have done, is a matter of what it was the only possible logical outcome after that decision

The horde becoming a joke, cus I guess you mean you don't like it because reasons ( no more orcs only?)
The council is for the better, warchief is a dated title and should have been removed way earlier.

good try bringing up that fallacy but like i said, im not talking about the council and already showed why a troll or even a tauren would make to lead

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Anduin is such a good golden boi that he even stirs Sylvanas genocidal heart

You can't make this up

that is basically power of friendship

[The Council]

they didnt show him turning which is kind of odd.

also i really want 9.1 to end up as an actual loss. "While you were distracted with Sylvanas i stole another key" type.

[Alanar]

both of their stories were better, Garrosh was a better villain all together, and he start as not a villain, but as a character with flaws

Opinion thing, for me none realy stands out.

it is doomed after sylvanas because its when started the downhill, it made no sense to kill vol'jin after what happened to mop, and made no sense to put her in that position, again was DOA, is not a matter of they could have done, is a matter of what it was the only possible logical outcome after that decision

I agree on Vol'jin, it was utterly pointless to kill him.

good try bringing up that fallacy but like i said, im not talking about the council and already showed why a troll or even a tauren would make to lead

I was talking about the council, because that is where we are right now, it's relevant. Baine and Vol'jin are not great examples imo, you can argue the way they handled things, but honestly why bother?

[Syegfryed]

Opinion thing, for me none realy stands out.

Garrosh was a more compelling villain, more "humane", with realistic goals and flaws, that made him better that the clusterfuck sylvanas is going trough since wtlk.

I was talking about the council, because that is where we are right now, it's relevant. Baine and Vol'jin are not great examples imo, you can argue the way they handled things, but honestly why bother?

but im not rly talking about the council or Baine, i said a tauren, baine is an alliance lapdog, not a tauren anymore, the thing is the horde before was already like a council, the difference is the leader of orcs, aka, warchief, had the final saying in the matters of war, but they kinda forgot that to act like the warchief was an emperor of some sort and everyone could be one.

[Velshin]

No amount of redemption will make up for the genocide that she did when she burned Teldrassil. All the way up to that point I really liked her, but when she did that yeah...just kill her already I hope it will be Tyrande then during her last moment she sees Arthas one last time as an ironic poetic justice for sure.

[Sorrowseer]

Look at what happened to grom from Alternate draenor and Queen Azshara after they were 'defeated' in a fashion, a whole lot of nothing its a headache.

[Broken Fox]

She's muh queen

[Darth-Piekus]

Like we did with Nzoth can we as a raid group finish her and not get the kill stolen? No redemptions, no nothing, just pure execution. We had enough redemption arks.

[Kokolums]

Doubt she will die.
I predict she will join us after being cast aside by the Jailer and realizing the shit she caused.
Then at the end of it all, perform a self-sacrifice and redeem herself.

But if she dies in combat, i want Tyrande to do it.

I mean AU-Grommosh was a bloodthirsty warlord hellbent on killing millions but they turned him into an anti-hero by just having him get fired.

[Narwhalosh Whalescream]

Sylvanas sacrifices herself to save the day but she dies and awaits a horrible afterlife but WAIT some kind of windchime resurrects her and turns her into some light undead bullshit and everyone is happy thereafter.