Sylvanas Windrunner Raid Boss: The Big Elephant in the Room

[Alanar]

if you put an evil villain in the leadership, the only direction is downhill, you can't expect much out of it, unless they retcon the entire character.

Not persee, just a matter of bad writing.

The change was fine.. orcs only would have never survived and realy stale which is also shown in game.

[Syegfryed]

Not persee, just a matter of bad writing.

if you jump in the river you get wet, this isn't bad writing, is a matter of folowing the logic of the situation, good writing can't salvage that

The change was fine.. orcs only would have never survived and realy stale which is also shown in game.

again, the change was made the horde to be a joke and basically a subservient state of the alliance, if it would have survived or not that is a matter of bad or good writing.

see how im not talking about the council.

[Maljinwo]

Anduin is such a good golden boi that he even stirs Sylvanas genocidal heart

You can't make this up

[Alanar]

if you jump in the river you get wet, this isn't bad writing, is a matter of folowing the logic of the situation, good writing can't salvage that



again, the change was made the horde to be a joke and basically a subservient state of the alliance, if it would have survived or not that is a matter of bad or good writing.

see how im not talking about the council.

The story was all over the place and like I said if it that had a different direction it could have been better, again nothing to do with who the warchief is. It's not like Vol'jin or garrosh story was any better. So saying it was doomed from the point Sylvanas became warchief is meaningless, cus then you should have said it was doomed afther thrall. Which also doesn't say anything to me either, just bad story.

The horde becoming a joke, cus I guess you mean you don't like it because reasons ( no more orcs only?)
The council is for the better, warchief is a dated title and should have been removed way earlier.

[Syegfryed]

The story was all over the place and like I said if it that had a different direction it could have been better, again nothing to do with who the warchief is. It's not like Vol'jin or garrosh story was any better.

both of their stories were better, Garrosh was a better villain all together, and he start as not a villain, but as a character with flaws

So saying it was doomed from the point Sylvanas became warchief is meaningless, cus then you should have said it was doomed afther thrall. Which also doesn't say anything to me either, just bad story.

it is doomed after sylvanas because its when started the downhill, it made no sense to kill vol'jin after what happened to mop, and made no sense to put her in that position, again was DOA, is not a matter of they could have done, is a matter of what it was the only possible logical outcome after that decision

The horde becoming a joke, cus I guess you mean you don't like it because reasons ( no more orcs only?)
The council is for the better, warchief is a dated title and should have been removed way earlier.

good try bringing up that fallacy but like i said, im not talking about the council and already showed why a troll or even a tauren would make to lead

- - - Updated - - -

Anduin is such a good golden boi that he even stirs Sylvanas genocidal heart

You can't make this up

that is basically power of friendship

[Traveler Voltin]

they didnt show him turning which is kind of odd.

also i really want 9.1 to end up as an actual loss. "While you were distracted with Sylvanas i stole another key" type.

[Alanar]

both of their stories were better, Garrosh was a better villain all together, and he start as not a villain, but as a character with flaws

Opinion thing, for me none realy stands out.

it is doomed after sylvanas because its when started the downhill, it made no sense to kill vol'jin after what happened to mop, and made no sense to put her in that position, again was DOA, is not a matter of they could have done, is a matter of what it was the only possible logical outcome after that decision

I agree on Vol'jin, it was utterly pointless to kill him.

good try bringing up that fallacy but like i said, im not talking about the council and already showed why a troll or even a tauren would make to lead

I was talking about the council, because that is where we are right now, it's relevant. Baine and Vol'jin are not great examples imo, you can argue the way they handled things, but honestly why bother?

[Syegfryed]

Opinion thing, for me none realy stands out.

Garrosh was a more compelling villain, more "humane", with realistic goals and flaws, that made him better that the clusterfuck sylvanas is going trough since wtlk.

I was talking about the council, because that is where we are right now, it's relevant. Baine and Vol'jin are not great examples imo, you can argue the way they handled things, but honestly why bother?

but im not rly talking about the council or Baine, i said a tauren, baine is an alliance lapdog, not a tauren anymore, the thing is the horde before was already like a council, the difference is the leader of orcs, aka, warchief, had the final saying in the matters of war, but they kinda forgot that to act like the warchief was an emperor of some sort and everyone could be one.

[Velshin]

No amount of redemption will make up for the genocide that she did when she burned Teldrassil. All the way up to that point I really liked her, but when she did that yeah...just kill her already I hope it will be Tyrande then during her last moment she sees Arthas one last time as an ironic poetic justice for sure.

[Sorrowseer]

Look at what happened to grom from Alternate draenor and Queen Azshara after they were 'defeated' in a fashion, a whole lot of nothing its a headache.

[Broken Fox]

She's muh queen

[Darth-Piekus]

Like we did with Nzoth can we as a raid group finish her and not get the kill stolen? No redemptions, no nothing, just pure execution. We had enough redemption arks.

[Kokolums]

Doubt she will die.
I predict she will join us after being cast aside by the Jailer and realizing the shit she caused.
Then at the end of it all, perform a self-sacrifice and redeem herself.

But if she dies in combat, i want Tyrande to do it.

I mean AU-Grommosh was a bloodthirsty warlord hellbent on killing millions but they turned him into an anti-hero by just having him get fired.

[Narwhalosh Whalescream]

Sylvanas sacrifices herself to save the day but she dies and awaits a horrible afterlife but WAIT some kind of windchime resurrects her and turns her into some light undead bullshit and everyone is happy thereafter.

[Traveler Voltin]

No amount of redemption will make up for the genocide that she did when she burned Teldrassil. All the way up to that point I really liked her, but when she did that yeah...just kill her already I hope it will be Tyrande then during her last moment she sees Arthas one last time as an ironic poetic justice for sure.

arthas did way worse and yet people want to redeem him.

[Velshin]

arthas did way worse and yet people want to redeem him.

First of all it is debatable if Arthas did worse or not. Second, Arthas didn't have fully control of what he did after he got the Frostmourne (yes he was a dick before but he got worse after obtaining the runeblade, and the culling of Stratholm was horrible indeed, but at least he did it thinking that it was the only way the only solution, he didn't do it because someone talk back to him and got him tilted or angry or anything like that)

Sylvanas did so many horrible selfish bullshit, hell the idea of her joining the jailer after she commited a suicide at the day of night (forgot that novel story name) after the end of Wotlk icc because she was afraid of death and didn't wanna die.

[Traveler Voltin]

First of all it is debatable if Arthas did worse or not. Second, Arthas didn't have fully control of what he did after he got the Frostmourne (yes he was a dick before but he got worse after obtaining the runeblade, and the culling of Stratholm was horrible indeed, but at least he did it thinking that it was the only way the only solution, he didn't do it because someone talk back to him and got him tilted or angry or anything like that)

Sylvanas did so many horrible selfish bullshit, hell the idea of her joining the jailer after she commited a suicide at the day of night (forgot that novel story name) after the end of Wotlk icc because she was afraid of death and didn't wanna die.

arthas's actions were his own even as a death knight and lich king.

[Velshin]

arthas's actions were his own even as a death knight and lich king.

Not according to the new retcon lore no(I don't like retcons myself but it is what it is). Did you see the new cinematic of 9.1 ? I will not spoil it if you didn't see it yet.

That video will gives you an obvious answer that Arthas is indeed wasn't on controll when he was using the runeblade Frostmourne or when he was using the Helm of Domination.

[Traveler Voltin]

Not according to the new retcon lore no(I don't like retcons myself but it is what it is). Did you see the new cinematic of 9.1 ? I will not spoil it if you didn't see it yet.

That video will gives you an obvious answer that Arthas is indeed wasn't on controll when he was using the runeblade Frostmourne or when he was using the Helm of Domination.

did you read the lore? Jailer could not control arthas. Arthas was fighting him while doing his own thing.
arthas was in control of his actions.

Anduin is a literal meat puppet.

[KainneAbsolute]

No one. I believe Blizzard is trying to introduce a change in heart.