Sylvanas Windrunner Raid Boss: The Big Elephant in the Room

[Velshin]

did you read the lore? Jailer could not control arthas. Arthas was fighting him while doing his own thing.
arthas was in control of his actions.

Anduin is a literal meat puppet.

Arthas lost his humanity when he wears the helm and the sword which is why at the end of the ICC raid he asked his father "is it over?" he wouldn't ask that if he was in full control. The one who was fighting the Jailer influence was Bolvar not Arthas which is why the Jailer sent Sylvanas to deal with him and breaks the helm to open up the Shadowlands realm.

[svetlio]

So fast question here haven arthas kiled svlvanas onetime already when he turned her from high elv in udead banshie??So if they choose him to kill her it will be a second time.

[Selastan]

When Anduin tells Sylvanas 'you hold the power', he wasn't referring to his captivity. He knows whatever the Jailer's plans are revolve around Sylvanas, and he knows Sylvanas has her own hidden motivations as well. Something tells me that Anduin let himself become a Jailer puppet in order to get a measure of freedom for Sylvanas and himself to perform some sort of grand betrayal. Calling it now.

[Tyrathius]

I mean, I'm not gonna say it's impossible because that's exactly the sort of shock value twist based writing Blizzard loves.

But I do feel like, if she was actually trying to stop the Jailer, a better way to do that would be to... Not help him get what he wants.

[Cherry123]

The story Anduin and Sylvanas and relationship with the Jailer that triangle is really foundational to story shadowlands (c) Steve Danuser


He confirmed that Anduin and Sylvanas are the main characters in Shadowlands, and their story will continue throughout the expansion.

[Cherry123]

And the sky is blue?

I don't know, it’s always gray over my city

[The Butt Witch]

She won't die. She's gonna get vadered and sacrifice herself to save the Anduin and the world, thus making up for the burning of Teldrassil, and redeeming herself. She's most definitely not gonna die in a raid.

[Maxilian]

Even if Sylvanas does die, I think she would come again as she have some Valkyrs left (that we have really not seen).

Regardless I do expect Tyrande to be part of the fights against Sylvanas, and maybe even get the last hit on her (if she does not escape)

[Hellspawn]

Even if Sylvanas does die, I think she would come again as she have some Valkyrs left (that we have really not seen).

Regardless I do expect Tyrande to be part of the fights against Sylvanas, and maybe even get the last hit on her (if she does not escape)

I doubt they will play the Valkyr card again. The entire thing is a strange fit with all the new lore anyways.

[cocomen2]

Anduin (hero) + Sylvanas (antihero) vs Jailer (big bad) ..... too classic story for wow.

There a rule if you see big, muscular, bald guy he almost for sure a final boss. Bonus if he broke af barefoot, shirtless beggar with nipples , its adds some comedy to it.

[Alanar]

Garrosh was a more compelling villain, more "humane", with realistic goals and flaws, that made him better that the clusterfuck sylvanas is going trough since wtlk.



but im not rly talking about the council or Baine, i said a tauren, baine is an alliance lapdog, not a tauren anymore, the thing is the horde before was already like a council, the difference is the leader of orcs, aka, warchief, had the final saying in the matters of war, but they kinda forgot that to act like the warchief was an emperor of some sort and everyone could be one.

Like I said I was talking about the council so idk why you keep trying to ignore that, its not like you get decide what I am talking about and no the council is a recent thing officially. Warchief is old news and only causes problems as we saw. The hordes new look is superiour in every way.

You are kinda talking about baine lol there arent many tauren examples in general so I will take baine as example if you like it or not. I mean even cairne was a wuss m8.
Garrosh was a dick and once again not realy a story that stood out compared to Sylvanas imo. I am not even a Sylvanas fanboy, but I if they had a better narrative it could have been a better story.

[bagina]

If Sylvanas absolutely HAD to die sacrificing herself to save someone I'd rather it be Tyrande or her sisters, not Anduin. He already hijacked enough of her character as is.

[Caerule]

Come on, folks. Aren't you forgetting something? We can totally kill Sylvanas and still have her around.

We'll end up killing her (Definitely with Tyrande involved), and then we'll take her soul to Revendreth.

We've seen her soul holds doubts. This was specifically shown, even if she made the bad choice for Anduin. This means she is destined for Revendreth. She can be redeemed.

In addition, her soul holds tactical information about the Jailer's plans. It makes sense from a tactical standpoint to hand her over to the Venthyr.

[Aucald]

Come on, folks. Aren't you forgetting something? We can totally kill Sylvanas and still have her around.

We'll end up killing her (Definitely with Tyrande involved), and then we'll take her soul to Revendreth.

We've seen her soul holds doubts. This was specifically shown, even if she made the bad choice for Anduin. This means she is destined for Revendreth. She can be redeemed.

In addition, her soul holds tactical information about the Jailer's plans. It makes sense from a tactical standpoint to hand her over to the Venthyr.

Not sure if that can or will happen, but it'd definitely be interesting to see the heart-to-heart between Sylvanas' shade and the Accuser, who I have no doubt would just relish the chance to knock Sylvanas down several dozen pegs. Sylvanas would be spewing manifestations of arrogance and pride in a never-ending geyser.

[Syegfryed]

Like I said I was talking about the council so idk why you keep trying to ignore that, its not like you get decide what I am talking about and no the council is a recent thing officially.

the problem is how we are talking about sylvanas being putt warchief and things good or bad coming out of it, talking about the council when we discuss that is pointless

Warchief is old news and only causes problems as we saw.

No, the problem is bad writing, it did fine for years until when they decided to fuck up

The hordes new look is superiour in every way.

and not that is not true, we barely knew who is there and we already lost members, is just a mess they don't know how to handle and a copy of what the alliance was before, fitting when the aliance now have a warchief

Garrosh was a dick and once again not realy a story that stood out compared to Sylvanas imo. I am not even a Sylvanas fanboy, but I if they had a better narrative it could have been a better story.

And sylvanas is not a dick? MOP and wod were just 10x better than bfa and shadowlands by a mile

[Raisei]

Not sure if that can or will happen, but it'd definitely be interesting to see the heart-to-heart between Sylvanas' shade and the Accuser, who I have no doubt would just relish the chance to knock Sylvanas down several dozen pegs. Sylvanas would be spewing manifestations of arrogance and pride in a never-ending geyser.

That is pretty much why I assume that she was really Maw-bound in the end. The Arbiter would have send her to Revendreth to atone, but Sylvanas never accepted responsiblity for any of her crimes, always blamed someone else, her existence as undead or whatever and that would be crucial for atonement to happen.

In a functioning Revendreth the Venthyr would have tried to cleanse her of her arrogance for eons, failed and then kicked her down into the Maw.

However, this is just what I make from how the character was shown so far.

That doubt she expressed in front of Anduin was a completely new side, that was never even hinted at and it is that which makes me think that Danuser absolutely wants to redeem her. Since there was never anything good left in her, he had to create it and use Anduin to "discover" it, even at the cost of his life.
It's at this point clear that Danuser will not allow Sylvanas to die as a villain, no matter the costs. If Anduin has to die for it, or Tyrande or anyone else that he doesn't care about, then that is what will happen. And he will then release a statement that we never understood Sylvanas.

[Aucald]

That is pretty much why I assume that she was really Maw-bound in the end. The Arbiter would have send her to Revendreth to atone, but Sylvanas never accepted responsiblity for any of her crimes, always blamed someone else, her existence as undead or whatever and that would be crucial for atonement to happen.

In a functioning Revendreth the Venthyr would have tried to cleanse her of her arrogance for eons, failed and then kicked her down into the Maw.

However, this is just what I make from how the character was shown so far.

That doubt she expressed in front of Anduin was a completely new side, that was never even hinted at and it is that which makes me think that Danuser absolutely wants to redeem her. Since there was never anything good left in her, he had to create it and use Anduin to "discover" it, even at the cost of his life.
It's at this point clear that Danuser will not allow Sylvanas to die as a villain, no matter the costs. If Anduin has to die for it, or Tyrande or anyone else that he doesn't care about, then that is what will happen. And he will then release a statement that we never understood Sylvanas.

I'm not so sure i.e. her guaranteed delivery to the Maw. One thing I like about Sylvanas' character is that down beneath her blustering pride there is a scintilla of what she once was - one could say a patina of essential humanity is still in her, like the memory of water in a long-dry well. We occasionally get glimpses of this fact when it comes to her affection for Nathanos, or for Vereesa in War Crimes. She guards the knowledge jealously and tries to purge sentiment and emotionality from herself, but it's always there. That factor could well redeem her if nurtured and brought to the fore, which eons in Revendreth might help accomplish. Her redemption even at the Venthyr's hands would by no means be guaranteed - but I would posit it is at least possible.

Whether or not Sylvanas *deserves* redemption is, to me, the real question. I've long maintained the answer is a solid "no," but the question was more about whether redemption was possible and not whether it was deserved.

[Talrath]

Gamon will save us

[Atrea]

Not all of the raid bosses we fight end up dying at the end.

Hell, even Denathrius isn't dead.

[Phuongvi]

it's obvious at some point she will sacrifice herself to save Anduin
She won't die, she will be the prison gardian for the Jailer,