'I can't keep doing this': gig workers say pay has fallen after California's Prop 22

[PC2]

You still haven't explained how you reconcile this nonsense with your stance on natalism btw.

Maybe she ment that natalism is personally right for her but not for society in general. A person's private stance on some issues doesn't necessarily need to be their public stance.

[Theodarzna]

If there's less than 9 million jobs in that niche then that means there's too many people interested in that niche and they need to look for jobs elsewhere. New jobs can always be created so it doesn't matter whether the labor supply doubles as long as it happens incrementally.

That makes zero sense, jobs don't just become conjured out of thin air, nor do jobs that pay you enough to live on simply appear. One need only look around to see that isn't true and there is zero evidence for it.

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Maybe she ment that natalism is personally right for her but not for society in general. A person's private stance on some issues doesn't necessarily need to be their public stance.

Natalism is generally good because;

A) If your society literally cannot produce enough people to sustain itself? Why is that not itself a problem?

B) Subsisting on other people like some kind of vampire doesn't sit well with me.

C) It's not a sustainable situation. Many areas won't be producing a lot of people shortly so what do you do when nowhere is producing a lot of kids?

D) Desired birthrate remains high so its no of function of lack of will or desire?

Basically if the Liberal Capitalist utopia we claim to live in cannot actually convince people its worth actually creating new life in and instead to sustain that system we must harvest other warm bodies to shovel into a vast gaping maw, that is both immoral and a system that deserve to die not be maintained.

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Yeah, Theo likes to ignore the hard questions.

I eagerly await one of you being capable of doing so, thus far I've not found myself terribly impressed. Most of you I think I could save me the trouble and just link to the Dailykos or DNC press briefing you got this stuff from.

[Elegiac]

Subsisting on other people

Is the telling phrase, here.

[Machismo]

That makes zero sense, jobs don't just become conjured out of thin air, nor do jobs that pay you enough to live on simply appear. One need only look around to see that isn't true and there is zero evidence for it.

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Natalism is generally good because;

A) If your society literally cannot produce enough people to sustain itself? Why is that not itself a problem?

B) Subsisting on other people like some kind of vampire doesn't sit well with me.

C) It's not a sustainable situation. Many areas won't be producing a lot of people shortly so what do you do when nowhere is producing a lot of kids?

D) Desired birthrate remains high so its no of function of lack of will or desire?

Basically if the Liberal Capitalist utopia we claim to live in cannot actually convince people its worth actually creating new life in and instead to sustain that system we must harvest other warm bodies to shovel into a vast gaping maw, that is both immoral and a system that deserve to die not be maintained.

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I eagerly await one of you being capable of doing so, thus far I've not found myself terribly impressed. Most of you I think I could save me the trouble and just link to the Dailykos or DNC press briefing you got this stuff from.

Then, why are you in this country? You are literally an immigrant who says you should not be allowed in this country.

I love watching you try and justify your support of national socialism, whilst being an "outsider" whom you think doesn't belong.

So, how did that liberal capitalist utopia convince you to move here?

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Yeah, Theo likes to ignore the hard questions.

This is literally an anti-immigrant immigrant who wants to punish people without kids, so she can collect more government money to pay for her kids.

I wish I were joking.

[Elegiac]

That makes zero sense, jobs don't just become conjured out of thin air

"Immigrants don't buy goods or use services."

nor do jobs that pay you enough to live on simply appear.

This is a function of a lack of living wage regulations, not immigration. Again; it's really obvious through the othering of immigrants that the concern isn't remotely to do with working class welfare - it's a fig leaf for wanting an ethnostate.

[Felya]

That makes zero sense, jobs don't just become conjured out of thin air, nor do jobs that pay you enough to live on simply appear. One need only look around to see that isn't true and there is zero evidence for it.

There are 10 types of people in this world, those who understand binary and those who don’t.

[Bodakane]

This is so stupid.

Big Ag is behind keeping illegal immigration alive.They are the ones filling the coffers of conservative politicians to keep the issue at the forefront.

They want illegals because they use them as an indentured workforce. If we made it easier to become a citizen, the problem stops and we would face a boom.

I know this because it is literally how America boomed in the first place.

[Felya]

"Immigrants don't buy goods or use services.”

If jobs didn’t appear out of thin air, we would have had an economic collapse by the end of the 90s. The shit we see now is completely illogical... We are fighting to keep old institutions in place, while arguing that industry created out of thin air within the last 20 years, is the problem.

The problem we see now, is the same problem we would have seen during the industrial revolution, if horse breeders had as much power as old money currently does.

[Machismo]

If jobs didn’t appear out of thin air, we would have had an economic collapse by the end of the 90s. The shit we see now is completely illogical... We are fighting to keep old institutions in place, while arguing that industry created out of thin air within the last 20 years, is the problem.

The problem we see now, is the same problem we would have seen during the industrial revolution, if horse breeders had as much power as old money currently does.

This is the argument of white supremacists and ethno-nationalists, and she isn't basing it on any actual economic principles.
She's appealing to supposed concern over a lack of jobs to prevent immigrants from coming here.

It's a terrible argument, because it's literally the same argument white supremacists and ethno-nationalists have been using since before the United States was even a country.

Oh, and the mother of all ironies... she's an immigrant, who has managed to find a job here... making her a fucking liar.

[Kellhound]

If jobs didn’t appear out of thin air, we would have had an economic collapse by the end of the 90s. The shit we see now is completely illogical... We are fighting to keep old institutions in place, while arguing that industry created out of thin air within the last 20 years, is the problem.

The problem we see now, is the same problem we would have seen during the industrial revolution, if horse breeders had as much power as old money currently does.

Not all jobs are created equal. We are seeing a loss of mid-level skilled jobs.

[Kellhound]

@Theodarzna thanks for proving my point.

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Go ahead and link the data.

Middle class has gotten smaller while lower and upper has gotten bigger.

[Machismo]

Middle class has gotten smaller while lower and upper has gotten bigger.

That's not backing the claim you made, that's a second, unrelated claim.

[Felya]

Not all jobs are created equal. We are seeing a loss of mid-level skilled jobs.

What exactly do you think I was referring to in my example? Which is kinda strange... since the jobs am talking about, are mid level skilled jobs, that are projected to grow by 2.4 billion dollars by 2024...

https://www.bls.gov/ooh/computer-and...ology/home.htm

Employment in computer and information technology occupations is projected to grow 11 percent from 2019 to 2029, much faster than the average for all occupations. These occupations are projected to add about 531,200 new jobs. Demand for these workers will stem from greater emphasis on cloud computing, the collection and storage of big data, and information security.

The median annual wage for computer and information technology occupations was $88,240 in May 2019, which was higher than the median annual wage for all occupations of $39,810.

Did you think it was coal miners? All 42.4 thousand of them?

https://data.bls.gov/timeseries/CES1021210001

Why do you think all the attacks from the right on big tech? Is someone loosing the power involved in having a large employment pool and is clinging to their billions at the cost of the country?

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Middle class has gotten smaller while lower and upper has gotten bigger.

Are you using the middle class moving up to upper class, as a negative? FYI... only half of what you just said is a bad thing...

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Oh fuck... I just realized something... there are over 500k dead in US to covid, with 42.4K coal miners... I think it was the billionaires running the coal mines that lead to Trump putting on a hard hat, since more than 10 times the dead people, still didn’t encourage him to wear a mask:

[Kellhound]

What exactly do you think I was referring to in my example? Which is kinda strange... since the jobs am talking about, are mid level skilled jobs, that are projected to grow by 2.4 billion dollars by 2024...

https://www.bls.gov/ooh/computer-and...ology/home.htm


Did you think it was coal miners? All 42.4 thousand of them?

https://data.bls.gov/timeseries/CES1021210001

Why do you think all the attacks from the right on big tech? Is someone loosing the power involved in having a large employment pool and is clinging to their billions at the cost of the country?

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Are you using the middle class moving up to upper class, as a negative? FYI... only half of what you just said is a bad thing...

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Oh fuck... I just realized something... there are over 500k dead in US to covid, with 42.4K coal miners... I think it was the billionaires running the coal mines that lead to Trump putting on a hard hat, since more than 10 times the dead people, still didn’t encourage him to wear a mask:

Programming isn't a mid level tech job, it is an upper level one. Technicians are mid level. Its also one the often requires a degree, or significant knowledge, to get into. Plus, $2.4 billion divided by $88,000 is only 28k new jobs. I would MUCH rather see 28k new heavy industry jobs.

I'm sure it has nothing to do with big tech being generally left leaning...

If the net result is a larger lower class, then yes an enlarged upper class is bad.

[Machismo]

Programming isn't a mid level tech job, it is an upper level one. Technicians are mid level. Its also one the often requires a degree, or significant knowledge, to get into. Plus, $2.4 billion divided by $88,000 is only 28k new jobs. I would MUCH rather see 28k new heavy industry jobs.

I'm sure it has nothing to do with big tech being generally left leaning...

If the net result is a larger lower class, then yes an enlarged upper class is bad.

We're still waiting on the evidence to back up your claims.

[kail]

It's a shame unskilled labor is so common.. if only some wise voice in the past could of warned about the effects massive unchecked immigration had on an already overstaffed unskilled labor market!

Where this prophet is we can only hope he uses his power for good.

When has unskilled labor been uncommon?

[Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang]

Natalism is generally good because;

A) If your society literally cannot produce enough people to sustain itself? Why is that not itself a problem?

B) Subsisting on other people like some kind of vampire doesn't sit well with me.

C) It's not a sustainable situation. Many areas won't be producing a lot of people shortly so what do you do when nowhere is producing a lot of kids?

D) Desired birthrate remains high so its no of function of lack of will or desire?

Basically if the Liberal Capitalist utopia we claim to live in cannot actually convince people its worth actually creating new life in and instead to sustain that system we must harvest other warm bodies to shovel into a vast gaping maw, that is both immoral and a system that deserve to die not be maintained.

While we're at it, might as well add that more natalism means less capital concentration :
-having and educating children is a massive financial drain
-forgoing or limiting those expenditure often result in the accumulation of capital, if only to prepare for retirement, which will be poured in the stock-market, real estate, etc...
-lots of children/heirs = quicker dispersion of capital

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When has unskilled labor been uncommon?

Numerous times in history.

It's been documented that catastrophic major demographic reductions like the Black Death, by drastically lowering the supply of labour, resulted in higher wages and lower rents.

More recently, the first centuries of colonization of the Americas were marked by an extreme lack of labor respective to the abundance of land.

[Felya]

Programming isn't a mid level tech job, it is an upper level one.

Why are you talking about development? IT jobs are not only development... my links are not talking about just development. I am not a developer...

Technicians are mid level. Its also one the often requires a degree, or significant knowledge, to get into. Plus, $2.4 billion divided by $88,000 is only 28k new jobs. I would MUCH rather see 28k new heavy industry jobs.

That’s not how you derive jobs from a medium.

What do you mean by heavy industry? You are complaining about 28k NEW jobs, when we spent millions prepping up 42k jobs, that are decreasing. Outside keeping old money rich... what is the point of forcing a dying industry, when there is a booming one? Oil Barron’s need their billions from tax payers?

I'm sure it has nothing to do with big tech being generally left leaning...

You are shitting on in demand jobs, that pay more than the jobs being lost, because of left leaning? I am pointing out the demand... the pay... and the variety of jobs coming from Information Technology... for you to respond with some bullshit about left leaning? Is this about jobs or pushing ideology? Is this about jobs or calling billionaires conservatives, so you can protect their failing industry in the name of fighting leftist?

If the net result is a larger lower class, then yes an enlarged upper class is bad.

Since it’s not... what’s going on here? Let me guess, the last 20 years of growth doesn’t count, because it’s new billionaires? It’s not coal barons, real estate moguls and Exxon CEOs that are getting richer... but, people who were middle class just 20 years ago, but rose up to rival and threaten the power of old money?

[Bodakane]

As I've been trying to get people to understand about the meat industry (which is the same for all big industry):



Between this and the shit going on with Texas power grid, there is literally no valid argument for deregulation.

[Theodarzna]

@Theodarzna thanks for proving my point.

Whatever you say King.

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While we're at it, might as well add that more natalism means less capital concentration :
-having and educating children is a massive financial drain
-forgoing or limiting those expenditure often result in the accumulation of capital, if only to prepare for retirement, which will be poured in the stock-market, real estate, etc...
-lots of children/heirs = quicker dispersion of capital

That is another solid point(s).