TBC players might get pre-nerf bosses

[Shibito]

Lady Vashj just like in Method kill?

That was nihilum not method

[Akka]

I did all the content when it was fresh and new, it's going to get steamrolled just as hard as classic was.

Maybe if people weren't so idiotic on the hyperboles, the quality of discussions on these forums would improve

[Gimlix]

it's good. everyone knew before classic went live raids would be easy. BC raids however are on another level and where the real raiding starts. We will get on par or even harder than current mythic raids for once in classic world (at least with pre nerf bosses)

TBC is nothing compared to todays raiding though.

[Nurmat]

That was nihilum not method

I've only seen Method video kill

[ShimmerSwirl]

multiple insane bugs dont count as ''hardest raiding'' and fixing bugs isnt ''nerfing''

That 1% number was about 6 months before Wotlk came out, the end of TBC.

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TBC is nothing compared to todays raiding though.

The main difference I see with TBC raid design and current raid design, is that while current raids are more complex, the mechanics of TBC raids were far more punishing. It was relatively simple to know what you had to do in TBC raids, but if *anyone* did not execute correctly the effects were felt were felt raid wide in ways that were almost impossible to overcome unless you were dramatically overgeared for the fight. It was the old Blizzard mantra "easy to learn, difficult to master" on display in top form.

[Frozenbro]

The main difference I see with TBC raid design and current raid design, is that while current raids are more complex, the mechanics of TBC raids were far more punishing. It was relatively simple to know what you had to do in TBC raids, but if *anyone* did not execute correctly the effects were felt were felt raid wide in ways that were almost impossible to overcome unless you were dramatically overgeared for the fight. It was the old Blizzard mantra "easy to learn, difficult to master" on display in top form.

Can you elaborate how can you consider the mechanics in mythic generals or mythic sire denathrius not punishing enough compared to TBC to claim that those were "far more punishing"? some day people will be objective for once xd

[Super Kami Dende]

it's good. everyone knew before classic went live raids would be easy. BC raids however are on another level and where the real raiding starts. We will get on par or even harder than current mythic raids for once in classic world (at least with pre nerf bosses)

Whilst TBC raids were harder than Vanilla. They are still braindead in comparison to current Mythic.

[Rustedsaint]

it's good. everyone knew before classic went live raids would be easy. BC raids however are on another level and where the real raiding starts. We will get on par or even harder than current mythic raids for once in classic world (at least with pre nerf bosses)

Ya no, they gonna be full cleared without any difficulty like classic was within days. You can bookmark this thread.

[Frolk]

All TBC raids will be cleared on day 1 exactly like all vanilla raids were.
Unless they gate Sunwell like it was on retail, then it will be 3x day 1 kills.

I have a feeling that without the worldbuff meta, it might actually take TWO days to clear it.

[Daymanmb]

When people actually do the content without stacking WB and consummable and not having trained on the content for months already, I'll take this affirmation seriously.

The raid was made with both in mind. Using neither is not intended.

[Frozenbro]

We will get on par or even harder than current mythic raids for once in classic world (at least with pre nerf bosses)

Said no mythic raider ever lmao, what a joke (actually saving your quote since i have a good feeling it wont age well at all).

[arkanon]

We will get on par or even harder than current mythic raids for once in classic world (at least with pre nerf bosses)

You cant honestly believe this - either you never did TBC raids, or never did mythic raids since introduction, or both.

[KaPe]

Can you elaborate how can you consider the mechanics in mythic generals or mythic sire denathrius not punishing enough compared to TBC to claim that those were "far more punishing"? some day people will be objective for once xd

Clearly, it was about 1% miss chance on taunt and having your tank/raid be splattered by Brutallus when it failed. (even though it wasn't even that big of a deal) Much harder than all the bullshit than happens on Mythic SLG.

[Akka]

The raid was made with both in mind. Using neither is not intended.

With some consummable, yeah.
Not with stacking so many of them, and certainly absolutely not with WB.

[Daymanmb]

With some consummable, yeah.
Not with stacking so many of them, and certainly absolutely not with WB.

Thats debatable. We have no evidence one way or another, outside of an obscure Ion post that isnt definitive.
But he does say: "raid designers were acknowledging that top guilds would use every tool at their disposal to win the race to Kel'Thuzad, and tuning the fights around that expectation". Every tool would include world buffs.

[Chaelexi]

it's good. everyone knew before classic went live raids would be easy. BC raids however are on another level and where the real raiding starts. We will get on par or even harder than current mythic raids for once in classic world (at least with pre nerf bosses)

It is no where near current Mythic raids. They were punishing but still doable without major difficulty. The only fight that may come close to mythic difficulty in that whole xpac will be Muru.

[Akka]

Thats debatable. We have no evidence one way or another, outside of an obscure Ion post that isnt definitive.
But he does say: "raid designers were acknowledging that top guilds would use every tool at their disposal to win the race to Kel'Thuzad, and tuning the fights around that expectation". Every tool would include world buffs.

No, because it's expected that people will WIPE during progress, and as such WB wouldn't be available for progress.
They obviously didn't tune it for people who already have known the fight for 15 years, and practiced for hours on PTR/private servers, and would go to such ridiculous length as rotating alt with WB.

WB were thought to be something fun to help leveling. Not to double character's power during raids.
In fact, if Naxx fights were designed with WB, they would be plain impossible to finish without, considering how much more powerful someone is when stacking them.

[Daymanmb]

No, because it's expected that people will WIPE during progress, and as such WB wouldn't be available for progress.
They obviously didn't tune it for people who already have known the fight for 15 years, and practiced for hours on PTR/private servers, and would go to such ridiculous length as rotating alt with WB.

WB were thought to be something fun to help leveling. Not to double character's power during raids.
In fact, if Naxx fights were designed with WB, they would be plain impossible to finish without, considering how much more powerful someone is when stacking them.

I cited evidence that contradicts what you just said. You bring your opinion to the table. Im not going to debate your opinion.

[Chaelexi]

The main difference I see with TBC raid design and current raid design, is that while current raids are more complex, the mechanics of TBC raids were far more punishing. It was relatively simple to know what you had to do in TBC raids, but if *anyone* did not execute correctly the effects were felt were felt raid wide in ways that were almost impossible to overcome unless you were dramatically overgeared for the fight. It was the old Blizzard mantra "easy to learn, difficult to master" on display in top form.

More punishing, have you completed Mythic anything in current wow. Most mechanic fails in current mythic lead to huge damage to you/raid, death to you or even worse wipe. Yes there were some oneshot mechanics in TBC but most mechanics were forgiving until Sunwell and in many cases only a couple people had mechanics where they had to worry and personal responsibility was not always huge. Now fights are based around personal responsibility mechanics.

[Echocho]

The main difference I see with TBC raid design and current raid design, is that while current raids are more complex, the mechanics of TBC raids were far more punishing. It was relatively simple to know what you had to do in TBC raids, but if *anyone* did not execute correctly the effects were felt were felt raid wide in ways that were almost impossible to overcome unless you were dramatically overgeared for the fight. It was the old Blizzard mantra "easy to learn, difficult to master" on display in top form.

This is exactly what people said about classic and see how that turned out.
TBC is an amazing game, much better than Shadowlands will ever be but let's not fool ourselves into thinking that it's hard. In fact I'd argue that one of the main reasons that it's a better game is because it's easy, it's way more inclusive.

Us claiming that it's hard when it's painfully obvious that it's not just makes us look insecure.