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  1. #661
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    This is just semantics and you know it, character boosts weren't even handed out until WoD.

    It's the same logic that's being applied, "Retail does it, so (TBC) Classic should do it as well" and that's basically rephrasing what i said above and thus remains nonsense.
    I literally quoted a lead producer/director/engineer from the official TBC Classic page and a Blue from the official forums and drew an obvious comparison to boosts offered when purchasing an expansion. That in no way means I support WoW tokens, race/faction changes, etc.

  2. #662
    Quote Originally Posted by kukkamies View Post
    Ah you were talking about only the boost. My conversation was about fresh realms and how boosts are here instead of them.
    I'm still fine with boosts if they are only to old realms. Just give fresh realms with no boosts and no old characters. The current realms are already ruined anyway so boosts won't hurt much. P2w and non-p2w realm would be awesome.
    There is no p2w here. People need to stop using that term because it is being misused.

  3. #663
    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    There is no p2w here. People need to stop using that term because it is being misused.
    Clearly logging into a level 58 with 5g, dungeon blues, no reputation/professions and a slow ass mount that you're 995g away from upgrading is going to rocket you ahead to *checks notes* walking through the dark portal and begin questing 2 levels below everyone else.

  4. #664
    uhm, tbc wasn't that much about leveling anyways, its the best pvp expansion up to date.

  5. #665
    Quote Originally Posted by ArthasDidNothingWrong View Post
    Dude but you aren’t even thinking of this one minor group that I’m not even apart of! The group of people who didn’t play classic, wants to play tbc, and also doesn’t want to pay for a boost! WHAT ABOUT THIS EXTREMELY NICHE GROUP THAT IM NOT EVEN ASSOCIATED WITH!
    I see your sarcasm and raise you

    "how will mages get paid for power leveling lazies through Classic content if everyone gets a shiny new 58 to start the actual expansions content with"

    I for one am outraged

  6. #666
    Quote Originally Posted by Season2mask View Post
    Now you can just buy your way to 50
    LOL someone hasn't read their LookingForGroup channel in the last 15 or so months

  7. #667
    Quote Originally Posted by ArthasDidNothingWrong View Post
    Dude but you aren’t even thinking of this one minor group that I’m not even apart of! The group of people who didn’t play classic, wants to play tbc, and also doesn’t want to pay for a boost! WHAT ABOUT THIS EXTREMELY NICHE GROUP THAT IM NOT EVEN ASSOCIATED WITH!
    Then don't pay for a boost. You aren't required to buy one. YOua re trying to dictate that others play your way when you can simply not boost and play your way while those that boost play their way.

  8. #668
    You have committed crimes against TBC's integrity by despoiling it with retail RMT / boost / P2W features. The charge is high treason!

    Bah, you and your lackeys seek to destroy TBC, not revive it!

  9. #669
    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    Then don't pay for a boost. You aren't required to buy one. YOua re trying to dictate that others play your way when you can simply not boost and play your way while those that boost play their way.
    I think he was being sarcastic

  10. #670
    Honestly this thread is a lot of fun. But I'm still waiting for 1 question to be answered:
    What is the downside of a lvl58 character boost?
    We can even pretend that it's p2w if you want since that's the most uninteresting non-answer, so seriously what's the actual downside?

  11. #671
    Quote Originally Posted by Prag View Post
    I literally quoted a lead producer/director/engineer from the official TBC Classic page and a Blue from the official forums
    Because Blizzard is an unbiased party in that aspect?

    I still argue that Blizzard themselves fall into the same logical fallacy, they argue in this post that TBC experience starts at 58, but want everyone who hasn't played Classic or is not willing to purchase starts off at one, because [reasons].
    Either the TBC experience starts at 58 and subsequently everyone who wants to play TBC should have access to a 58 or nobody that doesn't already have a max level character gets access to one.
    But Blizzard drives this "actually the experience this server is supposed to deliver starts at 58, but you'll have to start at 1 unless you pay us", because they can and make money off it, plain and simple.
    Quote Originally Posted by Prag View Post
    and drew an obvious comparison to boosts offered when purchasing an expansion.
    A small difference being that a character boost is a bonus on top of that expansion itself (at least for WoD & Legion), TBC does not come with an extra fee, they charge you money because they know people will pay for it.

    And obviously the fact that Blizzard also withheld such a service for a multitude of expansions until recently.
    Quote Originally Posted by Prag View Post
    That in no way means I support WoW tokens, race/faction changes, etc.
    The crux is that the very arguements you've applied can also be applied on those.
    You want to argue "no, that's different!", i really don't think it is when you argue thatTBC is being designed to be "consistent" with retail and thus follows the modern approach that is guided by "engagement metrics".
    I sure as shit know some prime candidates for the WoW token once they enter Outland with virtually nothing, not even an epic mount or a profession to farm gold in an economy that's about to become even more inflated.

    Quite frankly, i don't even understand why this is the hill you want to die on.
    It's a self explaining case and it's pretty obvious to me that because this is such a critical element for you to access TBC, you try your hardest to justify it, when in reality the boost simply cannot be reunited with the spirit of the game.

    And if we're you, i'd just leave it at what i said earlier: say that you don't care, you just want to skip classic leveling and are willing to pay for it.
    Boom, no further need of trying to fit a square peg into a round hole, just say you want those edges off the square so its suits you.
    Last edited by Kralljin; 2021-03-03 at 09:52 PM.

  12. #672
    The Lightbringer Lollis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    And on top of that displays a certain willingless to pay real money for ingame services (especially to skip "boring stuff") meaning not everybody within that audience has necessarily an aversion for RMT.
    There is a big, big difference in paying to skip 7 days of torturous boredom in a fucking terrible levelling system and paying for gold.

    I don't know about others, but I actually liked farming stuff and watching my gold go up as I got closer to that epic flying.

    Doing 1-60 though? Now that was shit. I somehow managed to do it twice in actual vanilla and then once again on a draenei shaman in tbc. The levelling in Azeroth—especially after playing through TBC zones—was just fucking awful, and classic is right there to prove it.

    TBC levelling is pretty bad compared to newer content now, but old Azeroth was just a whole other level of dogshit.
    Speciation Is Gradual

  13. #673
    Half the people in this thread could start an argument with themselves in an empty house.
    Garbagelands xD

  14. #674
    Quote Originally Posted by Lollis View Post
    I don't know about others, but I actually liked farming stuff and watching my gold go up as I got closer to that epic flying.
    And it is, as you implied, a personal preference of yours and i don't think it's long shot to that a lot of those have a different feeling about this.

    Because those people that will take the boost enter Outland literally broke, they still have to even acquire the epic mount, which is around 600g in TBC, then they still need to pay for all the skills they're learning (which aren't cheap as anybody that has leveled in Classic will attest), while you have to save most of your gold for flying and epic flying in the back.

    Disregarding that leveling a gathering profession is also an undertaking and leveling a crafting profession will also take some gold during TBC launch, especially the Outland portion, partially due to the inflated economy.
    Without any gathering profession, you will also struggle to enter the market, because farming Primal Elements in early TBC will be a real test of patience.

    Sorry, i'm not buying it that the vast majority of those people that hate on Classic leveling for being too boring or monotenous will suddenly make a complete 180° when it comes to goldfarming and find joy in it, especially when that very first step to farm gold (if they choose a gathering profession that is) ironically involves going back to the world they skipped.

  15. #675
    Quote Originally Posted by ArthasDidNothingWrong View Post
    Oh no the botter hit end level 2 weeks earlier than he would have without a boost.
    You do realize that's two additional weeks of revenue for goldfarmers?

    Especially because they no longer have to worry less about any account being banned, they can resort to extremely aggresive farming strats to make more gold/h.
    If they got too cocky and all of their accounts get banned in Classic, they have to level those again, which leads to days without any income.

    With the boost, you will always have bots at the ready to farm, they'll be back on day one even after the most brutal ban waves because unless Blizzard charges an outrageous amount for the boost, every bot will break even within days.

    It also makes the detection of those network far more difficult, if you have botaccount that perma boosts all other bot accounts in Classic, you can easily link one of those bots back those others once you detect one of them, you can ban the entire network of a goldfarmer in one fell swoop.

    With the boost, it's virtually impossible, because every bot is an individual.

    It's basic business, really, you invest more but receive revenue sooner, which is crucial when a bot only has limited lifespan until the next banwave anyway.
    Last edited by Kralljin; 2021-03-03 at 11:31 PM.

  16. #676
    Herald of the Titans Dartz1979's Avatar
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    Ok heres my question.. a 58 boost with blues and level 40 mount will the boost have some gold to work with?
    You can't take what ya can't see... *rolls d20* You rolled a natural 20* The skill of stealth is successful.

    Duelingnexus name: Jaina1337
    Blizzard Battle Tag: Jaina1337#1396

  17. #677
    So the exact same thing they offer for the new expansions, basically, for the exact same reason?
    Quote Originally Posted by Daevelian View Post
    So this is how far the Lore forum has fallen? Eesh.
    I take it back, BfA is not the lowest the games lore could have gone, this thread proves that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    And just like the thread before it, let's back away from sexualizing Azshara and return to the original topic at hand.

  18. #678
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    You do realize that's two additional weeks of revenue for goldfarmers?
    Nothing changes though. Botters are still going to bot, regardless of a one-time level boost.

    It's not "two weeks" either. Bots can play 24/7 without ever stopping or slowing down, so they can go from 1-58 in about 3 or 4 days real time, with all the exp nerfs TBC has.

  19. #679
    Quote Originally Posted by ArthasDidNothingWrong View Post
    What the difference of two weeks when they aren’t even being banned at all?
    They get banned, not frequently enough however to make the endeavor not profitable.
    And the boost makes them even harder to detect, right now one can at least use dungeon boosting to link them all together, with the boost you have to go after each bot manually.
    Quote Originally Posted by ArthasDidNothingWrong View Post
    If we start banning the bots more frequently then the boost will no longer be valuable to them anyway, seeing as how they are only getting caught at end level. So it would be cheaper for them to just level it up in the first place.
    Yeah, *if* is unfortunately the keyword here.
    Quote Originally Posted by anon5123 View Post
    It's not "two weeks" either. Bots can play 24/7 without ever stopping or slowing down, so they can go from 1-58 in about 3 or 4 days real time, with all the exp nerfs TBC has.
    96 hours for 1-58 is pretty damn quick even with the TBC nerfs, especially for a bot that levels at a slower pace than someone that levels manually.

    That aside, i wasn't the one who made the two week claim, so you're replying to the wrong person in that aspect.

  20. #680
    Quote Originally Posted by ArthasDidNothingWrong View Post
    The boost would only make them “more undetectable” if there were actually people out in the world to report them lol. Also how do you even detect a bot in a dungeon boosting? You don’t lol. Yeah let’s just report every guileless player that’s level 34 in a dungeon, that’ll get um. That’s not how reality works.
    Bot gets boosted.
    Bot goes out into the world.
    Bot gets reported / detected by the system.
    System checks it.
    System sees that said character is seemingly committed to one activity without any interaction with other players or game elements.
    =>Conclusion, that's a bot.
    Now, you can search further:
    System checks how the character has leveled.
    System sees character has been boosted, from one to 60 by the same character.
    System checks the boosting character.
    System sees character has never advertised any services, nor any interaction with other players.
    System checks other characters that have been boosted by the character above.
    System sees all of them are pursuing a similiar activity as the initially reported character.

    You now have a list of multiple characters that with a high likelihood are bots, you can catch one, you can catch more, with boost, you can't link any of those characters to, you gotta go after all those manually, which is a huge pain.

    How do you think Blizzard reaches numbers such as banning thousands of accounts per day?
    I don't think all of them trip some detection from Blizzards anti cheat software, the botters are smarter than that.
    Quote Originally Posted by ArthasDidNothingWrong View Post
    They level just as quickly if not quicker than most what do you mean lol. They can dungeon boost endlessly and fly hack to areas in an instant.
    30 instances per day lockout prevent "endless" boosting and said dungeon boosting makes them also more likely in getting banned, due to above methodology.

    And using tools such as fly hack is always a double edged sword, it also make them getting detected far more likely and getting an account autobanned during the leveling phase is always a loss for the botter as they've already invested the monthly sub into that account without any revenue.
    Last edited by Kralljin; 2021-03-04 at 12:44 AM.

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