Thread: "Pay to win"

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  1. #381
    Quote Originally Posted by munkeyinorbit View Post
    There is a huge advantage in "strictly" TBC. Player 1 logs into TBC. Buys a boost. Has a lvl 58 in full dungeon blue quality gear.
    Player 2 logs in 2 weeks before launch. Gets all the way to lvl 58 by the time BC launches. Struggles to find people to run dungeons while leveling as the game is lvl 60 or empty. He's in greens with an occasional blue.

    Who has the advantage? Anything but the P2W player is people refusing to admit that they are wrong. Player 1 purchased their gear with money.

    Now I expect a lot of goal post moving and mental gymnastics for your justification of your argument but that fact is I have taken your "strict" definition of what content is and proven you objectively wrong.
    The person with the advantage is the person playing classic who lucked out that Blizzard decided to do progression servers to TBC and can bring his 6 level 60s with 70k gold and T3 epics for playing different game than TBC classic.

  2. #382
    Quote Originally Posted by Jabakaga View Post
    Some of us have family and kids and work, we longer are living in our mothers basement. So no it will take months to level through vanilla I wasn't gonna play TBCC until they I read they were offering boost.
    Exactly. For many people they may have first played TBC back in University or in highschool when they had more free time.

    However when you have a real job or family to take care of, it's not exactly easy to keep to video game hours.

  3. #383
    Quote Originally Posted by Selvari7 View Post
    Exactly. For many people they may have first played TBC back in University or in highschool when they had more free time.

    However when you have a real job or family to take care of, it's not exactly easy to keep to video game hours.
    I think if you polled a majority of the #NoChanges crowd you'd find out a lot of them are younger than 21.

    I'll let you do the math on that one.

  4. #384
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnusthegreat View Post
    It's less of an advantage than copying a Classic character. You are actually paying money for less of an advantage.

    Your analogy is horrendously wrong. A more accurate analogy would be paying 10 bucks to start your character at level 10 in dota, and all players that played dota 1 automatically start level 12 (completely forgiving the genre inequity of levels).
    xD

    So a guild that can skip leveling is actually at a disadvantage compared to a guild that can not? Why don't you ask a World First guild what they think about that? xD

    But hey man, you are the first one telling me that character level boosting is pay to lose. You do you, I guess.

  5. #385
    The rule of thumb is if it takes 24 hours grind to get that, it is "PAY to WIN" !

    The actual time can vary by person.
    I personally value my time 2 dollars per hour.

    This doesn't mean that I will buy the service. I don't want to encourage the greedy of the company.
    I simply will not level a character because the service exists. In other words, I don't play this "game".

    Nothing good will come out of the "classic server" because it requires lots of grind.
    I predict that either not many people play it or Blizzard will sell the boost service.
    Last edited by xenogear3; 2021-02-24 at 09:56 AM.

  6. #386
    I am Murloc! Mister K's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xanjori View Post
    Literally cannot use it on draenei or belf.

    Why is it that everyone whining about this literally hasn't even read how it works?
    Because the world is filled with people that lack screws in their heads (putting it lightly).

    Not a problem, move along.
    -K

  7. #387
    Quote Originally Posted by munkeyinorbit View Post
    There is a huge advantage in "strictly" TBC. Player 1 logs into TBC. Buys a boost. Has a lvl 58 in full dungeon blue quality gear.
    Player 2 logs in 2 weeks before launch. Gets all the way to lvl 58 by the time BC launches. Struggles to find people to run dungeons while leveling as the game is lvl 60 or empty. He's in greens with an occasional blue.

    Who has the advantage? Anything but the P2W player is people refusing to admit that they are wrong. Player 1 purchased their gear with money.

    Now I expect a lot of goal post moving and mental gymnastics for your justification of your argument but that fact is I have taken your "strict" definition of what content is and proven you objectively wrong.
    Well, yes, very strictly and out of context speaking, this is a pay to win mechanic. However, the P2W booster has the upper hand only until finishing a handful of HFP quests. The whatever green/blue/lower tier epic, gear you might've had, will be going down the drain as quickly as with any other xpac as almost every other quest you finish will be shoving new items in your face. View this within any reasonable context, however, and we have absolutely nothing.
    Unless of course we're in the quite likely miniscule minority competing over "who's having the best non-dungeon-geared player for early HFP questing." Serious times for those.

  8. #388
    why does it matter to you if OTHER people "skip content" lol ? If people wanted to enjoy classic leveling, they would do it. But people like me dont want to levelup for a month in a "re release"...

    lvl 58 blues are worthless compared to lvl 58+ GREENS from hellfire peninsula, were we playing the same game ? You'll replace all your gear after a few quests

  9. #389
    i'm guessing they'll do these premades during the pre-patch so, you'll have the paladins and shamans getting levelled up, ppl who don't want to pay for a 58 levelling up. but depending on the length of the pre-patch, you could easily get a 58 to 60 and do its professions before the gate opens. if the pre-patch period is 2 weeks or more then you would have enough time to level from 1-60 and do profs to 300 at least gathering deffo. i'm sure there will be many ppl who use a boosted 58 and some of those may even miss the pre-patch and still be 58 when you can go through the dark portal. the boost probably isn't going to make much difference compared to the amount of ppl who will simply choose to level up during that period. those who play through the whole pre-patch should easily be 60 and ready by the end of it.

    I think its just not going to matter since there will be some sort of focused effort prior to the gate opening to level toons and paying for a 58 is only going to be worth it if you really just don't have the time to play either at all, or, simply during that levelling rush. since there will most likely be so many groups going it should be a breeze to level up. it'll still take a while ofc but there likely won't be a shortage of groups. the way I see it is its going to be, either you level up a character from 1-60 and just enjoy that for what it is, or buy a boosted 58, get to 60, do your profs and then wait for the gate to open like all the mains will be.
    Last edited by Heathy; 2021-02-24 at 11:06 AM.

  10. #390
    Quote Originally Posted by ifrah View Post
    Well, yes, very strictly and out of context speaking, this is a pay to win mechanic. However, the P2W booster has the upper hand only until finishing a handful of HFP quests. The whatever green/blue/lower tier epic, gear you might've had, will be going down the drain as quickly as with any other xpac as almost every other quest you finish will be shoving new items in your face. View this within any reasonable context, however, and we have absolutely nothing.
    Unless of course we're in the quite likely miniscule minority competing over "who's having the best non-dungeon-geared player for early HFP questing." Serious times for those.
    It solely depends on your concept or winning. An insta level 58 in TBC only “wins” the 1-58 leveling part.

    How much “winning” this is is up to anyone’s mind.

  11. #391
    Quote Originally Posted by tangers58 View Post
    I'm sorry but your feelings are not factual. It is pay to win.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Anytime you are handing blizzard cash to do part of the game for you it is pay to win. That is what pay to win is. It is what pay to win has always been.
    No, it's not pay to win. Paying to win would be buying loot directly from Blizzard. Just because you're too weak to resist buying gold to opt out of joining a guild and clearing the content yourself, does not make the game pay to win. You don't win anything by getting loot anyways, and it's plain as day obvious when someone's boosted themselves through content.. The game cannot be pay2win, when every metric used to determine who's winning at the game easily and instantly rules out people who've been boosted.

  12. #392
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ludvig View Post
    They could just add fresh TBC servers if the concern is that classic players will have an edge. Servers that you can't migrate your classic characters to. They could do much better decisions than this garbage but they just have to choose the extremely greedy and embarrassing one and the retail players sit and cheer. Blizzard just keeps putting straws on the camel's back, they can't help their own greed. It's the right decision in your mind, certainly not in mine or literally any of the people I know who play the game.

    Even the lead game designer for vanilla-wotlk WoW facepalmed and laughed at the option.
    If you are still giving them your currency, then thats all they care about. It matters not how much or how many complain. Currency talks, everything else gets ignored.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludvig View Post
    I'm only calling out p2w stuff for being what they are.
    And Blizzard is ignoring you because you still give them your time and currency.

    --- Want any of my Constitutional rights?, ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
    I come from a time and a place where I judge people by the content of their character; I don't give a damn if you are tall or short; gay or straight; Jew or Gentile; White, Black, Brown or Green; Conservative or Liberal. -- Note to mods: if you are going to infract me have the decency to post the reason, and expect to hold everyone else to the same standard.

  13. #393
    Quote Originally Posted by Seranthor View Post
    And Blizzard is ignoring you because you still give them your time and currency.
    I'm not subbed atm but sure. I also seriously doubt anyone important at Blizz spends time on these forums.

  14. #394
    Quote Originally Posted by SmokesTooMuch View Post
    I love that both sides of this argument are literally just people with their hands over their ears, screaming at each other that their opinion and only theirs is correct.

    LA LA LA LA LA I CANT HEAR YOU LA LA LA LA LA lol
    le enlightened centrist

  15. #395
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ludvig View Post
    I also seriously doubt anyone important at Blizz spends time on these forums.
    Herein is probably the best reason of all not to squander one's time howling at the moon over P2W on a fan forum.

    --- Want any of my Constitutional rights?, ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
    I come from a time and a place where I judge people by the content of their character; I don't give a damn if you are tall or short; gay or straight; Jew or Gentile; White, Black, Brown or Green; Conservative or Liberal. -- Note to mods: if you are going to infract me have the decency to post the reason, and expect to hold everyone else to the same standard.

  16. #396
    Quote Originally Posted by Clozer View Post
    xD

    So a guild that can skip leveling is actually at a disadvantage compared to a guild that can not? Why don't you ask a World First guild what they think about that? xD

    But hey man, you are the first one telling me that character level boosting is pay to lose. You do you, I guess.
    I guess I am the first one to tell you that the World First guild will have zero characters in the raid that levelled through a paid character boost in BC.

    I didn't think I would need to tell anyone that. It's pretty obvious why.

  17. #397
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnusthegreat View Post
    I guess I am the first one to tell you that the World First guild will have zero characters in the raid that levelled through a paid character boost in BC.

    I didn't think I would need to tell anyone that. It's pretty obvious why.
    Dude, you literally think that having a character boost gives you a disadvantage compared to someone who has to spend weeks leveling. This is too stupid.

  18. #398
    Quote Originally Posted by Clozer View Post
    Dude, you literally think that having a character boost gives you a disadvantage compared to someone who has to spend weeks leveling. This is too stupid.
    Do you think that every character in the world first Karazhan kill will a paid boost character? Or do you think it will be zero characters?

    By your logic, you clearly think that players in the best guild in the world will do the paid boost. This is beyond stupid.

  19. #399
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnusthegreat View Post
    Do you think that every character in the world first Karazhan kill will a paid boost character? Or do you think it will be zero characters?

    By your logic, you clearly think that players in the best guild in the world will do the paid boost. This is beyond stupid.
    No by my logic, Jimmy who used an ingame character level boost will have way better gear and more raid progress at any given timeframe than Bob who didn't. Literially pay to win.

  20. #400
    Quote Originally Posted by Clozer View Post
    No by my logic, Jimmy who used an ingame character level boost will have way better gear and more raid progress at any given timeframe than Bob who didn't. Literially pay to win.
    I don't understand, if it's an in-game advantage, why wouldn't the best characters in the world use it? Sounds like it must be a disadvantage to me, otherwise everyone seriously considering world first would do it.

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