Thread: "Pay to win"

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  1. #401
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnusthegreat View Post
    I don't understand, if it's an in-game advantage, why wouldn't the best characters in the world use it? Sounds like it must be a disadvantage to me, otherwise everyone seriously considering world first would do it.
    Yes, of course you don't understand. That's why we have this talk.

    So Jimmy wants to get WF and gets a boost and starts grinding endgame progression right away. And Bob does not buy the boost he spends time leveling. Now Jimmy is fully geared and progressed through the raid a couple of times and actually got a shot at WF. Meanwhile, Bob is now where Jimmy started. Who is having a better chance at WF? Did Jimmy pay to have a better progression than Bob? Is Jimmy right now actually having a disadvantage compared to Bob? Man, this must be difficult for you.

  2. #402
    Quote Originally Posted by Clozer View Post
    Yes, of course you don't understand. That's why we have this talk.

    So Jimmy wants to get WF and gets a boost and starts grinding endgame progression right away. And Bob does not buy the boost he spends time leveling. Now Jimmy is fully geared and progressed through the raid a couple of times and actually got a shot at WF. Meanwhile, Bob is now where Jimmy started. Who is having a better chance at WF? Did Jimmy pay to have a better progression than Bob? Is Jimmy right now actually having a disadvantage compared to Bob? Man, this must be difficult for you.
    So then, you believe Jimmy, one of the best players in the world, and others like him, are planning on paying for a character boost, because that is the best possible way to prepare for BC launch? And that endgame progression starts at level 58? And that every single person in the world that does not pay for a character boost is at a disadvantage as compared to Jimmy, because Jimmy paid to win? This sounds like you believe that WF guilds will be paying to boost characters because it is a direct in game advantage over others that don't pay for this boost?
    Last edited by Jonnusthegreat; 2021-02-24 at 10:38 PM.

  3. #403
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnusthegreat View Post
    So then, you believe Jimmy, one of the best players in the world, and others like him, are planning on paying for a character boost, because that is the best possible way to prepare for BC launch? And that every single person in the world that does not pay for a character boost is at a disadvantage as compared to Jimmy, because Jimmy paid to win?
    What does this have to do with BC launch or anyone already playing? Jimmy and Bob obviously both just started playing. Who is having the advantage? That is the point.

    Obviously, someone playing for years and has tons of preparation will have an even bigger advantage compared to Jimmy and Bob, but Jimmy still bought an in-game advantage with real money compared to Bob. Your whole logic is complete nonsense.

    It's like saying you can't pay to win in one of those shitty mobile games, since there already exists that one guy who unlocked everything already.

  4. #404
    Quote Originally Posted by Clozer View Post
    What does this have to do with BC launch or anyone already playing? Jimmy and Bob obviously both just started playing. Who is having the advantage? That is the point.

    Obviously, someone playing for years and has tons of preparation will have an even bigger advantage compared to Jimmy and Bob, but Jimmy still bought an in-game advantage with real money compared to Bob. Your whole logic is complete nonsense.

    It's like saying you can't pay to win in one of those shitty mobile games, since there already exists that one guy who unlocked everything already.
    To be clear, when BC launches, everyone has just started playing. It is a new game. On server launch, everyone has 0 days played of BC.

    If the world first players do not boost, it is NOT an advantage.

    They won't.

    Because it's not.

  5. #405
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnusthegreat View Post
    To be clear, when BC launches, everyone has just started playing. It is a new game. On server launch, everyone has 0 days played of BC.

    If the world first players do not boost, it is NOT an advantage.

    They won't.

    Because it's not.
    Who is having an advantage Jimmy or Bob. Stop evading the obvious. Thanks.

  6. #406
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Since Arthas used Frostmourne, which is a Runeblade, and Frostmourne's power eminates from those runes, that made him a Runemaster by default.

  7. #407
    Quote Originally Posted by Clozer View Post
    Who is having an advantage Jimmy or Bob. Stop evading the obvious. Thanks.
    Neither Jimmy nor Bob are capable of world first, because they are both disadvantaged. It is Caroline, who received a free boost to 60 for playing a different game.

  8. #408
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnusthegreat View Post
    Neither Jimmy nor Bob are capable of world first, because they are both disadvantaged. It is Caroline, who received a free boost to 60 for playing a different game.
    "It's like saying you can't pay to win in one of those shitty mobile games, since there already exists that one guy who unlocked everything already."

    I think we all know by now. Thank you. ^^

  9. #409
    Quote Originally Posted by Clozer View Post
    "It's like saying you can't pay to win in one of those shitty mobile games, since there already exists that one guy who unlocked everything already."

    I think we all know by now. Thank you. ^^
    Nothing from BC is unlocked with either of the boosts. Yes, we all know this.

  10. #410
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnusthegreat View Post
    Nothing from BC is unlocked with either of the boosts. Yes, we all know this.
    True, as long as you can't directly buy a World First kill you can not pay to win. Buying all these ingame advantages with real money is worthless as long as you are not the world first.

  11. #411
    Quote Originally Posted by Clozer View Post
    True, as long as you can't directly buy a World First kill you can not pay to win. Buying all these ingame advantages with real money is worthless as long as you are not the world first.
    No, spending real money to achieve an advantage in game that is unavailable to players that don't spend real money to receive is the definition of pay to win.

    That is not the case here.

  12. #412
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnusthegreat View Post
    No, spending real money to achieve an advantage in game that is unavailable to players that don't spend real money to receive is the definition of pay to win.

    That is not the case here.
    True, buying a level 10 boost in Dota is therefore not pay to win, since you can obviously level to 10 naturally. They should start selling those.

  13. #413
    Quote Originally Posted by Clozer View Post
    Yes, of course you don't understand. That's why we have this talk.

    So Jimmy wants to get WF and gets a boost and starts grinding endgame progression right away. And Bob does not buy the boost he spends time leveling. Now Jimmy is fully geared and progressed through the raid a couple of times and actually got a shot at WF. Meanwhile, Bob is now where Jimmy started. Who is having a better chance at WF? Did Jimmy pay to have a better progression than Bob? Is Jimmy right now actually having a disadvantage compared to Bob? Man, this must be difficult for you.
    Bob already knows he cannot compete for WF without a boost, what are you talking about?

    If we are instead talking about getting to 70 asap of course Jimmy has a huge advantage with the boost. But this is the purpose of the boost.

  14. #414
    Quote Originally Posted by Clozer View Post
    True, buying a level 10 boost in Dota is therefore not pay to win, since you can obviously level to 10 naturally. They should start selling those.
    Starting at level 10 is still a disadvantage, as compared to all the players that played Dota 1 and start at level 12.

    Allowing some players to skip content, but not others, while offering a sub-optimal boost for money is simply a cash grab.

  15. #415
    Quote Originally Posted by chiddie View Post
    Bob already knows he cannot compete for WF without a boost, what are you talking about?

    If we are instead talking about getting to 70 asap of course Jimmy has a huge advantage with the boost. But this is the purpose of the boost.
    But jonnus said Jimmy is having a disadvantage compared to Bob?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnusthegreat View Post
    Starting at level 10 is still a disadvantage, as compared to all the players that played Dota 1 and start at level 12.

    Allowing some players to skip content, but not others, while offering a sub-optimal boost for money is simply a cash grab.
    Indeed, they should start selling gear. Obviously, you can earn gear by doing raids yourself, so it's fine.

  16. #416
    Quote Originally Posted by Clozer View Post
    Indeed, they should start selling gear. Obviously, you can earn gear by doing raids yourself, so it's fine.
    When Blizzard allows players to buy gold with real money (token), then pay to win is in game. Nothing on Classic servers is pay to win so far.

    Quote Originally Posted by Clozer View Post
    But jonnus said Jimmy is having a disadvantage compared to Bob?
    This was never stated by me; you have imagined it, much like most of your argument.

  17. #417
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnusthegreat View Post
    When Blizzard allows players to buy gold with real money (token), then pay to win is in game. Nothing on Classic servers is pay to win so far.

    This was never stated by me; you have imagined it, much like most of your argument.
    But you can earn gold yourself? Why is buying gold p2w? You forgot:

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnusthegreat View Post
    No, spending real money to achieve an advantage in game that is unavailable to players that don't spend real money to receive is the definition of pay to win.

    That is not the case here.
    The player who didn't buy gold still has access to gold.

  18. #418
    Quote Originally Posted by Clozer View Post
    But you can earn gold yourself? Why is buying gold p2w? You forgot:



    The player who didn't buy gold still has access to gold.
    Gold can directly increase a player's power by purchasing items. Spending real money is not earning it in game. I did not forget. This is you not understanding the language of logic. There is more than one thing that is pay to win.

    This statement was about boosts, not gold. Since there is a free boost available that is not earned by playing the game, a real money (and worse) boost is not pay to win.
    Last edited by Jonnusthegreat; 2021-02-24 at 11:51 PM.

  19. #419
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnusthegreat View Post
    Gold can directly increase a player's power by purchasing items. Spending real money is not earning it in game. I did not forget. This is you not understanding the language of logic. There is more than one thing that is pay to win.

    This statement was about boosts, not gold. Since there is a free boost available that is not earned by playing the game, a real money (and worse) boost is not pay to win.
    Buying a level boost does not increase player's power?

    Since you start dismantling your own arguments, I'll soon stop here.

  20. #420
    Quote Originally Posted by Clozer View Post
    Buying a level boost does not increase player's power?

    Since you start dismantling your own arguments, I'll soon stop here.
    If you buy the boost nothing guarantees that you gonna clear the raids in time, you just get into tbc starting point, meanwhile gold does xd its quite simple but i guess this escapes your little mind.

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