Thread: "Pay to win"

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  1. #461
    Scarab Lord Eugenik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenJesus View Post
    You have a different definition of "winning". Thats fine. Looting illidans warglaives or getting gladiator isn't the only way for players to "win". This is an open-ended mmo.
    How many definitions of win are there? You cant just make up your own.
    Let's look at the test results. You are a horrible person. It says right here, you're a horrible person. We weren't even testing that. Don't let the horrible person thing get you down though. Science justified your parents choice to abandon you.

  2. #462
    Elemental Lord Soon-TM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eugenik View Post
    Buying power and saving time are synonymous?
    Thanks for purposefully misrepresenting my words. Right, technically they aren't synonymous, but both fall under the umbrella of P2W. The more convenient a MTX becomes, the closer it is to P2W, but don't worry, since MMOs can't be P2W ever anyway
    Current state of WoW lore:
    Quote Originally Posted by AwkwardSquirtle View Post
    Who'd have known that the Domination guy whose aesthetics are 80% chains wasn't into freedom. Nobody could have seen this coming.

  3. #463
    Scarab Lord Eugenik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    Thanks for purposefully misrepresenting my words. Right, technically they aren't synonymous, but both fall under the umbrella of P2W. The more convenient a MTX becomes, the closer it is to P2W, but don't worry, since MMOs can't be P2W ever anyway
    Lol at the irony.
    Let's look at the test results. You are a horrible person. It says right here, you're a horrible person. We weren't even testing that. Don't let the horrible person thing get you down though. Science justified your parents choice to abandon you.

  4. #464
    Quote Originally Posted by Ladey Gags View Post
    Who the fuck cares if it falls under your semantic definition of pay to win? It’s the fucking principle. Why the FUCK are you defending ANY amount of microtransaction practices? PLEASE tell me WHY you defend capitalist GREED? Do you not want video games to be what they used to be? Do you WANT to be fucked in the ass by greedy Bobby koticks? What the fuck?

    It’s like I’ve woken up in a fucking alternate reality where people are actually defending microtransactions. What the hell happened to you people?
    sounds like something a poor person would say, i'd pay for a full set of gear too if I could play the end game better

  5. #465
    Quote Originally Posted by Eugenik View Post
    Lol at the irony.
    The username eugenics and that sig... no wonder you support mtx.

  6. #466
    P2W in my opinion is something that gives you a competitive advantage against other players in content that matters.
    So in the case of WoW that would be in Arena/RBG, mythic+ and raids. There have never been and still isn't anything that you can buy from Blizzard that gives you a competitive advantage in these areas.

    Edit: I am wrong. You can buy a race change and races can give you an advantage, albeit a small one, in competitive end-game settings.

    In the case of the TBC boost I would rather call it Pay-to-avoid-hassle. You can to a small degree compare it with the tab-system in PoE where you can still play the game with the free tabs, but it is a goddam hassle.

  7. #467
    Scarab Lord Eugenik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenJesus View Post
    The username eugenics and that sig... no wonder you support mtx.
    Challenging your feelings doesnt mean I support anything. Thats a non sequitur. Try harder, homie.
    Let's look at the test results. You are a horrible person. It says right here, you're a horrible person. We weren't even testing that. Don't let the horrible person thing get you down though. Science justified your parents choice to abandon you.

  8. #468
    Quote Originally Posted by GreenJesus View Post
    You have a different definition of "winning". Thats fine. Looting illidans warglaives or getting gladiator isn't the only way for players to "win". This is an open-ended mmo. You are purposely defining "winning" in a way that fits your narrative. Id say skipping straight to end game allows you more weekly lockouts of gear which would inturn = pay to win.
    But it’s not skipping straight to the endgame. You are literally starting at the beginning of TBC. Which is the game being released.

    There is absolutely nothing about this boost that gives me an inherent advantage over someone of equal level. It’s not granting me extra power. It’s not granting me better stats, skills, or gear. It’s not even putting me ahead of anyone else playing TBC proper.

  9. #469
    Immortal sam86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    Most P2W schemes involve having cool things (straightforward access to BC content, in this case) behind either a pay wall or a time/grind wall. Since by definition you can't "win" in a MMO, other than maybe high level PvP, that would imply that MMOs can't be P2W ever. Imagine if they sold endgame gear in the store: by your logic, that wouldn't be P2W either, because in a very narrow sense, you aren't "winning" anything by buying it.
    but they do that already (or did? I think SL they removed it)
    U can buy tokens for real life gold, buy from BMAH best gear when it get released, and bam u are better than 99% of wow players without even setting a foot inside a raid
    not to mention u can always buy tokens for gold, buy a hc raid boost, and get 2nd best gear with just being online and probably /follow the healer in end of raid, yeah not top but still some of best gear, and all it needed from u is just hard cold cash, zero effort
    So yeah u don't get the best gear possible (mythic raiding), but u still get 2nd best with just paying cash non stop, how is that not p2w? compare it to 50% of world players who live in fucked up 3rd world countries, sub price is already 1/4 of their salary, they have to bust their ass to work daily to not die from starvation, they can't afford boost, and they can barely raid, will at most achieve same status as the p2w player after months of actual hard effort
    that scenario didn't even exist pre-token era, gold hoarding had weak to no value back when gold didn't give u any reward outside of potions and flasks and repair bills, something that even least free hardcore raider can get by just doing dailies once a week at most (if he even needs that)
    The beginning of wisdom is the statement 'I do not know.' The person who cannot make that statement is one who will never learn anything. And I have prided myself on my ability to learn
    Thrall
    http://youtu.be/x3ejO7Nssj8 7:20+ "Alliance remaining super power", clearly blizz favor horde too much, that they made alliance the super power

  10. #470
    Quote Originally Posted by GreenJesus View Post
    Not having to level a character for 2 months? Seems pretty damn winning to me. Like seriously consider that. The boost saves average player probably 150 hours normally leveling and questing. Assume they play 2 hours a day. That would actually be like 2.5 months. That doent even take into account people don't play every day, they might play retail as well and don't play classic every day, etc etc.

    Just because you aren't looting Ilidans warplaives and getting gladiator doesn't mean you aren't winning.
    Explain to me how a boosted character have an advantage over a character lvled from 1 att lvl 70? Keep in mind that the lvl 1 character easily could ding 70 before the boosted one.

    P2W is paying to get advantage over other players. Slipping a few lvls in a game where a majority have Raid Gear at lvl 60 now is not an advantage over other players.

  11. #471
    Immortal sam86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smash Adams View Post
    There is absolutely nothing about this boost that gives me an inherent advantage over someone of equal level.
    how exactly that? u both work, u both have 2 hours only to play a day, u are already doing hcs and getting badges while he still didn't get to outland in first place
    how is that not advantage? saving time IS advantage, raid spots are limited and u'll get to raid and top gear while he has to fight with 1502 of non p2w players to find a raid spot, assume he picked a class that is needed in first place
    The beginning of wisdom is the statement 'I do not know.' The person who cannot make that statement is one who will never learn anything. And I have prided myself on my ability to learn
    Thrall
    http://youtu.be/x3ejO7Nssj8 7:20+ "Alliance remaining super power", clearly blizz favor horde too much, that they made alliance the super power

  12. #472
    Scarab Lord crakerjack's Avatar
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    How is it that people still don’t know the definition of pay to win? What unobtainable in game advantage is being purchased? People just love to cry.
    Most likely the wisest Enhancement Shaman.

  13. #473
    Immortal sam86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Askyl View Post
    Explain to me how a boosted character have an advantage over a character lvled from 1 att lvl 70? Keep in mind that the lvl 1 character easily could ding 70 before the boosted one.
    explain to me how exactly it is start on same footage when both played for just 1 second, one is already 58 and other is lvl 1? how exactly are they same value?
    p2w is any advantage that real money gives, regardless u can achieve it later with invest lot of money or not, most p2w games btw do that: pay now to get service fast or just grind it slowly without paying

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by crakerjack View Post
    How is it that people still don’t know the definition of pay to win? What unobtainable in game advantage is being purchased? People just love to cry.
    time, since ur time has no value for u, for me he is saving more time just because he payed more in a sub-based game already is ridiculous
    The beginning of wisdom is the statement 'I do not know.' The person who cannot make that statement is one who will never learn anything. And I have prided myself on my ability to learn
    Thrall
    http://youtu.be/x3ejO7Nssj8 7:20+ "Alliance remaining super power", clearly blizz favor horde too much, that they made alliance the super power

  14. #474
    Scarab Lord Eugenik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sam86 View Post
    explain to me how exactly it is start on same footage when both played for just 1 second, one is already 58 and other is lvl 1? how exactly are they same value?
    p2w is any advantage that real money gives, regardless u can achieve it later with invest lot of money or not, most p2w games btw do that: pay now to get service fast or just grind it slowly without paying

    - - - Updated - - -


    time, since ur time has no value for u, for me he is saving more time just because he payed more in a sub-based game already is ridiculous
    Essentially youre paying either way. Someone already said theyd expect a new player to spend 2 hours a day leveling, on average and if theyre questing, could take 2-2.5 months. How much of that time is spent on sub money? Is it comparable to the cost of a boost?
    Let's look at the test results. You are a horrible person. It says right here, you're a horrible person. We weren't even testing that. Don't let the horrible person thing get you down though. Science justified your parents choice to abandon you.

  15. #475
    Quote Originally Posted by sam86 View Post
    how exactly that? u both work, u both have 2 hours only to play a day, u are already doing hcs and getting badges while he still didn't get to outland in first place
    how is that not advantage? saving time IS advantage, raid spots are limited and u'll get to raid and top gear while he has to fight with 1502 of non p2w players to find a raid spot, assume he picked a class that is needed in first place
    Keywords in my statement: “of equal level”

    Besides, the game is not a race. If you choose to level through, the same endgame will be waiting for you. I will not have an advantage inside of any dungeons or raids.

  16. #476
    Quote Originally Posted by GreenJesus View Post
    Not having to level a character for 2 months? Seems pretty damn winning to me. Like seriously consider that. The boost saves average player probably 150 hours normally leveling and questing. Assume they play 2 hours a day. That would actually be like 2.5 months. That doent even take into account people don't play every day, they might play retail as well and don't play classic every day, etc etc.

    Just because you aren't looting Ilidans warplaives and getting gladiator doesn't mean you aren't winning.
    Who takes 2 months to level to 58 these days though? My first 60 was done in half that, not even playing all day every day.

  17. #477
    Apparently even buying a mount is p2w.
    - Look at my mount, now show me yours
    - Didn’t buy it
    - Hahaha I win
    - Fuck this piece of shit greedy company, I remember they had a soul in 1995

  18. #478
    Scarab Lord Eugenik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xuros View Post
    Who takes 2 months to level to 58 these days though? My first 60 was done in half that, not even playing all day every day.
    Well, you were probably playing more than 2 hours a day. Unlike the example he used.
    Let's look at the test results. You are a horrible person. It says right here, you're a horrible person. We weren't even testing that. Don't let the horrible person thing get you down though. Science justified your parents choice to abandon you.

  19. #479
    Quote Originally Posted by GreenJesus View Post
    You have a different definition of "winning". Thats fine. Looting illidans warglaives or getting gladiator isn't the only way for players to "win". This is an open-ended mmo. You are purposely defining "winning" in a way that fits your narrative. Id say skipping straight to end game allows you more weekly lockouts of gear which would inturn = pay to win.
    I mean, you can define it that way of course, but then every micro transaction is either cosmetic or p2w and that would just make the conversation around them less precise.

    There is a lot of good f2p games that let you safe time or give you convenience for money.

    The are no good p2w games (pay for power).

    Wow is clearly part of the first group. It just shouldn't really have any micro transaction because it's not a f2p game.
    "And all those exclamation marks, you notice? Five?
    A sure sign of someone who wears his underpants on his head."

  20. #480
    Quote Originally Posted by Eugenik View Post
    Thanks for sharing your feelings. In your mind, what are you winning?
    What are you winning if you get cutting edge? A sense of achievement? Gear? It’s not different. You’re paying to avoid effort, the relevance of the reward is subjective.

    Real money should never be able to be used as any form of time-skip in any game.

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