Thread: "Pay to win"

Page 31 of 51 FirstFirst ...
21
29
30
31
32
33
41
... LastLast
  1. #601
    Mechagnome Piesor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Moonglade
    Posts
    504
    I do not care about the fact that you can boost too much from a "pay-to-win" perspective. Those players have to level through TBC anyway and have a harder time than other players since they have less gear. It just looks worse right now since we are still in the prepatch with lvl60 cap.

    What's more annoying: players get another incentive to reroll to a S-Tier class. The BGs are filled with Hunters and SL-Locks in greens and R13 spaulders. And when T6 content hits the servers most of those peoples will reroll to Rogue / Warrior to get their glaives. Hunter has always been my main and will also be my first lvl70 char. However I am already considering rolling a priest or shaman for raiding since I don't want the lootdrama with 4-8 hunters in a 25 man raid.

  2. #602
    who cares about boost while you can level fresh character in a week or two
    that also works on horde pala nad aly shama

  3. #603
    The Patient
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    211
    WoW Tokens and Blizzard's overall lack of shits given towards boosting communities have done a lot more to make WoW "pay to win" than a once-only level 58 character boost purchase has.

    Currently in WoW the only viable way to achieve Curve or KSM is to purchase boosts. It is damn near impossible to pug your way to the top because your lack of achievements and gear will get you rejected from every group you try to join. Boosting and elitism has created a literal catch-22 scenario.

    If Blizzard truly care about the integrity of their game, it's not the multiboxers they should be going after, it's the boosting communities. Especially when loads of them are now accepting real world money in some shape or form as part of their business model, in direct violation of the game's EULA.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Piesor View Post
    I do not care about the fact that you can boost too much from a "pay-to-win" perspective. Those players have to level through TBC anyway and have a harder time than other players since they have less gear. It just looks worse right now since we are still in the prepatch with lvl60 cap.

    What's more annoying: players get another incentive to reroll to a S-Tier class. The BGs are filled with Hunters and SL-Locks in greens and R13 spaulders. And when T6 content hits the servers most of those peoples will reroll to Rogue / Warrior to get their glaives. Hunter has always been my main and will also be my first lvl70 char. However I am already considering rolling a priest or shaman for raiding since I don't want the lootdrama with 4-8 hunters in a 25 man raid.
    As somebody who played Hunter throughout BC and Wrath, I'd encourage you not to play the class. Hunters do not get good until Cataclysm at the very earliest.

    In PvP you're gimped by the dead zone which can easily be manipulated by mages, warriors and rogues in 1v1 duels for a quick defeat. Hunters are the only ranged class with a minimum attack range.

    As for PvE, good luck getting a raid spot. You may be offered one if you're willing to go on bitch-duty and play Survival to stack Expose Weakness. Otherwise, more than one BM Hunter in a 10-man or two in a 25-man raid is seen as a liability. Especially when you'll be ordered to dismiss your pet or get /gkicked by idiot guild leaders retaining their Vanilla "pets are bad" mentality who don't understand that your pet will be doing much of the damage.

  4. #604
    Immortal sam86's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    WORST country on earth (aka egypt)
    Posts
    7,958
    Quote Originally Posted by deenman View Post
    the ods of you getting a bis item was in the ballpark of 0.01%,but ofc the ah was filled with those items,that someone could just buy with $$$$
    the chance of getting BiS for my protadin during Legion nighthold raid was if i raided non-stop for 4 years average, i calculated it myself, and it is why it killed my raiding desire in first place
    remember in legion we had many items that don't proc, tier sets, weapon, legos, and i think also trinkets? yet it takes average 4 years to complete full BiS for my pally, and if u are unlucky u can get to 10 years
    in comparison during wrath i actually got full set from crusade and icc raids, while got a couple of items from Ulduar (hm was hard and we didn't finish) and got best gear from non-hm ulduar, basically i was always near best gear, reason i didn't get best set in ulduar wasn't because it never dropped to me, but because I never was able to do the hardmode itself
    in wrath i had paladin and priest always raid-gear ready for guild, with rogue dps semi-ready, and all from raiding, in MoP (start of WF, was still ignored) I had a druid and a paladin, in Legion i was planning the same, saw the brutal reality for my paladin, decided to fuck it and enjoy the amazing class hall campaigns (unless u are priest), it did give me a LOT of fun, but a non-raiding fun

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Clbull View Post
    WoW Tokens and Blizzard's overall lack of shits given towards boosting communities have done a lot more to make WoW "pay to win" than a once-only level 58 character boost purchase has.

    Currently in WoW the only viable way to achieve Curve or KSM is to purchase boosts. It is damn near impossible to pug your way to the top because your lack of achievements and gear will get you rejected from every group you try to join. Boosting and elitism has created a literal catch-22 scenario.

    If Blizzard truly care about the integrity of their game, it's not the multiboxers they should be going after, it's the boosting communities. Especially when loads of them are now accepting real world money in some shape or form as part of their business model, in direct violation of the game's EULA.
    they won't, because that increases - a LOT - the token wow economy, they know what they doing, blizzard know and record every whisper we say in-game (can't remember why but a GM years like back in TBC showed me whisper i made to a friend), Bobby Kodick can't get his 30 million bonus on sub numbers alone
    And while token economy did drive a lot of players, it sadly still made far more profit from whales to give a fuck about half of population that left, that's how mobile games work, u have 90% of poor playerbase that exist to makes the whales feel satisfied with their superiority in game with their cash
    The beginning of wisdom is the statement 'I do not know.' The person who cannot make that statement is one who will never learn anything. And I have prided myself on my ability to learn
    Thrall
    http://youtu.be/x3ejO7Nssj8 7:20+ "Alliance remaining super power", clearly blizz favor horde too much, that they made alliance the super power

  5. #605
    Quote Originally Posted by sam86 View Post
    the chance of getting BiS for my protadin during Legion nighthold raid was if i raided non-stop for 4 years average, i calculated it myself, and it is why it killed my raiding desire in first place
    remember in legion we had many items that don't proc, tier sets, weapon, legos, and i think also trinkets? yet it takes average 4 years to complete full BiS for my pally, and if u are unlucky u can get to 10 years
    in comparison during wrath i actually got full set from crusade and icc raids, while got a couple of items from Ulduar (hm was hard and we didn't finish) and got best gear from non-hm ulduar, basically i was always near best gear, reason i didn't get best set in ulduar wasn't because it never dropped to me, but because I never was able to do the hardmode itself
    in wrath i had paladin and priest always raid-gear ready for guild, with rogue dps semi-ready, and all from raiding, in MoP (start of WF, was still ignored) I had a druid and a paladin, in Legion i was planning the same, saw the brutal reality for my paladin, decided to fuck it and enjoy the amazing class hall campaigns (unless u are priest), it did give me a LOT of fun, but a non-raiding fun

    - - - Updated - - -


    they won't, because that increases - a LOT - the token wow economy, they know what they doing, blizzard know and record every whisper we say in-game (can't remember why but a GM years like back in TBC showed me whisper i made to a friend), Bobby Kodick can't get his 30 million bonus on sub numbers alone
    And while token economy did drive a lot of players, it sadly still made far more profit from whales to give a fuck about half of population that left, that's how mobile games work, u have 90% of poor playerbase that exist to makes the whales feel satisfied with their superiority in game with their cash
    trinkets did titanforge,also wile weapons didnt,the relics you used in weps ofc they titanforged

  6. #606
    Quote Originally Posted by WowIsDead64 View Post
    Define "win" first. Do you really think, that only something like Mythic WF - is true "win"? Where is that red line, game devs can't cross? Winning has another meaning, that has nothing to do with competitive content - completing game. If you complete content and have nothing else to do - you win. For me P2W - is when you can skip content for $$$. And level boost is exactly this.

    For example. When you buy character for $$$ in FPS game instead of grinding it - it's not P2W, because getting that character isn't content. You'll play this game anyway, but get more fun, when playing on that character. But leveling IS CONTENT. Getting new max level character faster, than other player - IS ADVANTAGE.

    Even shorter - you pay for not playing the game, so it turns into souvenir shop.
    I guess different strokes for different folks. To be honest I think it would be better perceived if boosts were only allowed for people with max level characters. Would you feel like this was viable if you had a max level character? Also, if you grind out a toon from 1-max level by aoe grinding or only doing dungeon grinds, do you think that's pay to win as well? Because by doing the leveling process this way you skip 90% of the content. I mean do you feel differently about it in the same regard I guess is what I am asking.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Clbull View Post
    WoW Tokens and Blizzard's overall lack of shits given towards boosting communities have done a lot more to make WoW "pay to win" than a once-only level 58 character boost purchase has.

    Currently in WoW the only viable way to achieve Curve or KSM is to purchase boosts. It is damn near impossible to pug your way to the top because your lack of achievements and gear will get you rejected from every group you try to join. Boosting and elitism has created a literal catch-22 scenario.

    If Blizzard truly care about the integrity of their game, it's not the multiboxers they should be going after, it's the boosting communities. Especially when loads of them are now accepting real world money in some shape or form as part of their business model, in direct violation of the game's EULA.

    - - - Updated - - -



    As somebody who played Hunter throughout BC and Wrath, I'd encourage you not to play the class. Hunters do not get good until Cataclysm at the very earliest.

    In PvP you're gimped by the dead zone which can easily be manipulated by mages, warriors and rogues in 1v1 duels for a quick defeat. Hunters are the only ranged class with a minimum attack range.

    As for PvE, good luck getting a raid spot. You may be offered one if you're willing to go on bitch-duty and play Survival to stack Expose Weakness. Otherwise, more than one BM Hunter in a 10-man or two in a 25-man raid is seen as a liability. Especially when you'll be ordered to dismiss your pet or get /gkicked by idiot guild leaders retaining their Vanilla "pets are bad" mentality who don't understand that your pet will be doing much of the damage.
    I guess I was and I'm in better guilds than you regarding hunters. BM hunters carry one of the highest dps consistencies through all of TBC and do very well in WOTLK. In TBC for PVE they will top dps charts on most raid encounters for the expansion if played correctly and should be played correctly given the ease of operation. As far as PVP I don't disagree but they get better for PVP in WOTLK.

  7. #607
    Quote Originally Posted by Grimreaper View Post
    Paying real life money to gain an in-game advantage is the litteral definition of pay2win, regardless of how small or minor the advantage is. Skipping the lvling process up to level 58 certainly qualifies, thats 2-3 months for a casual player.
    What are you winning, though? Do you get a million dollars because you got to the same level everyone else does, just faster? Can you one-shot raid bosses because you boosted, whereas somebody who didn't can't?

    If you're going to call something "pay to win", there has to be a "win" after the pay. So where is the actual win?
    Still calling them out, one infraction at a time.

  8. #608
    Quote Originally Posted by Ringthane View Post
    What are you winning, though? Do you get a million dollars because you got to the same level everyone else does, just faster? Can you one-shot raid bosses because you boosted, whereas somebody who didn't can't?

    If you're going to call something "pay to win", there has to be a "win" after the pay. So where is the actual win?
    Every time I ask the same question I get the answer that bypassing content is the "win." Different opinions, which I am cool with them having but don't share. Further I have played the content from vanilla to SLs numerous times across numerous toons and would bypass it 1000 times after having completed it 1 times EVERY TIME. I personally think they should add an achievement that requires you complete all the story lines not associated with raids and gives you access to boost or pay to boost as many toons as you want. Just my opinion.

  9. #609
    Good news! That pay to win boost I bought lasted all of two hours before every single piece of gear I got was replaced by quest items and dungeon drops. So much winning for me!

  10. #610
    Quote Originally Posted by Thestrawman View Post
    Good news! That pay to win boost I bought lasted all of two hours before every single piece of gear I got was replaced by quest items and dungeon drops. So much winning for me!
    The guy that started at the same time as you is having so much fun kiting one Quilboar at a time in the barrens. He is one who truly won.

  11. #611
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkeon View Post
    The guy that started at the same time as you is having so much fun kiting one Quilboar at a time in the barrens. He is one who truly won.
    It's not hard to level and gear in classic or TBC btw, I wish folks would stop making it out to be that. Without boosting I leveled a shaman on alliance with an average of more than a level per hour for the trip. Ran some raids with my guild this week for gear and will be in a good spot for TBC. My hourly through the first 30 levels was less than an hour per level (2 levels per average for the first 15 levels). I didn't buy myself anything other than bags with my level 60 toons. I ended the leveling trip with almost 500g in my bag, blues in everyone spot except my neck and 1 ring and reputations in numerous factions almost or past honored. Also mining is maxed and am in a good spot for jewel crafting to go up quickly. My cooking is maxed as is first aid. All that in less than 2 weeks.

    I would say in a guild with over 400 active people playing not a single boosted player that has boosted in the last 2 weeks are as far progressed as I am and I did this part time when I got home from work every evening. Pay-to-win is so a thing....

  12. #612
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkeon View Post
    The guy that started at the same time as you is having so much fun kiting one Quilboar at a time in the barrens. He is one who truly won.
    This guy copied classic 60-level toon in most cases. Even if this guy started a new 1-lvl character, he can level it in a week or so (I leveled my current main during actual TBC in something like 5-6 days), before any serious raiding activily.

    And if we talk about completely new player - he do not need to be competitive, and can experience a full leveling adventure while slowly learning the game/class. At least when I start to play any new MMO, I am not using any boosts in any cicrcuimstances on my first/main character, because I want to feel the game, story, learn the class, etc. I can use it on alt then, but I doubt it can be considered as "win".

    So, no win in any situation.

  13. #613
    Quote Originally Posted by GreenJesus View Post
    Idk. Skipping 100+ hours at least of gameplay feels like pay to win to me.
    Sounds like efficient use of time and money. Fuck sitting at a pc for 100 hours.

  14. #614
    Quote Originally Posted by Jinpachi View Post
    Sounds like efficient use of time and money. Fuck sitting at a pc for 100 hours.
    "Brand new offer! For an additional $99.99 you can skip the entire game completely and use your time even more efficiently!"

  15. #615
    Quote Originally Posted by iinverse View Post
    "Brand new offer! For an additional $99.99 you can skip the entire game completely and use your time even more efficiently!"
    Which, according to your own description on the previous post, wouldn't be considered P2W.

  16. #616
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkeon View Post
    Which, according to your own description on the previous post, wouldn't be considered P2W.
    Yep. How can you win if you just skip the game? )

  17. #617
    I didn't play Classic Vanilla. Just bought the boost. Started playing retail in BC, so i'm trying to recreate my first character.

    If the character boost system had never been implemented then I would have just never touched the game.

    Idk how people can't see that the boost is actually a good implementation for the growth of the community. It attracts more players.

  18. #618
    Quote Originally Posted by Ragnarohk View Post
    I didn't play Classic Vanilla. Just bought the boost. Started playing retail in BC, so i'm trying to recreate my first character.

    If the character boost system had never been implemented then I would have just never touched the game.

    Idk how people can't see that the boost is actually a good implementation for the growth of the community. It attracts more players.
    I’ve gone out of my way to not play TBC because of how heavily I disagree with their MTX.

  19. #619
    Quote Originally Posted by Zypherz View Post
    I’ve gone out of my way to not play TBC because of how heavily I disagree with their MTX.
    And I'm only playing because of the boost /shrug

  20. #620
    Quote Originally Posted by matheney2k View Post
    And I'm only playing because of the boost /shrug
    My point was that it goes both ways.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •