Thread: "Pay to win"

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  1. #741
    Quote Originally Posted by Eugenik View Post
    Your anecdotal experiences mean nothing to this conversation, I hope you understand that. Many p2w elements allow players to bypass roadblocks, time sinks, or inconveniences with real money. Wow retail and classic both offer that in the way of level boosts. How you feel about it its inconsequential to the facts at hand.
    And your obtuse revisions to the definition of "pay to win" are equally anecdotal. What, is your abrasive dismissal of in game experience supposed to drive your point home? Lmao. I've played p2w games, and it's clear the impact it has in-game.

  2. #742
    Boost is more then fine, there are plenty of players myself included that did not or want to play vanilla, but would love to play TBC with our friends now we dont have to spend 2 months leveling we can get right to the good stuff and this helps with server population as well which is an over all win for the health of the game.

  3. #743
    Scarab Lord Eugenik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prag View Post
    And your obtuse revisions to the definition of "pay to win" are equally anecdotal.
    Using real money to bypass time sinks and/or gain power is not a revision, that is the definition.. Youre just delusional and white knighting for a company you like.
    Let's look at the test results. You are a horrible person. It says right here, you're a horrible person. We weren't even testing that. Don't let the horrible person thing get you down though. Science justified your parents choice to abandon you.

  4. #744
    The Unstoppable Force Super Kami Dende's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkeon View Post
    Buying any power for money is P2W. That has been my stance since always.

    Good try.
    Just because it is your stance doesn't mean it is the definition. It just means your stance is incorrect and you refuse to change it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    Not the same thing because you actually need to be logged into the game. The character boost just requires you to spend money and you are IMMEDIATELY level 58.
    Ironically you need to be logged into the game to activate the Boost.

  5. #745
    Bloodsail Admiral Xykotic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prag View Post
    You waited an hour for someone to answer that a 58 will beat a level 1 in a duel?

    I’d ask what you think was won, but given your definition, I’ll pass.
    So since winning any game is pointless, letting people cheat is fine?

  6. #746
    Everyone is paying for their sub to play. Hence - Pay to win.

  7. #747
    Quote Originally Posted by Eugenik View Post
    Using real money to bypass time sinks and/or gain power is not a revision, that is the definition.. Youre just delusional and white knighting for a company you like.
    Your refusal/inability to acknowledge nuance in a complicated circumstance (see: hundreds of replies here alone) != me white knighting. Not surprising you’d label someone that based on a single topic.

    When Cata launched with the first DE, I was able to play at exactly 12am, while box buyers had to wait to pick it up and install. According to your definition, that’s p2w. I was way ahead of my guildies by the time they installed and got through server queues.

    Tons of AAA titles on PSN let me buy the CE/Deluxe and start playing a day ahead. Apparently that’s p2w.

    Your incredibly narrow definition is convenient to your argument but fails on simple tests.

    And before you try to reply with “but…”, just remember: any real money to bypass time sinks is p2w, because apparently context just complicates the conversation for you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xykotic View Post
    So since winning any game is pointless, letting people cheat is fine?
    Time is finite. Do you really want to waste it asking this kind of a question?

  8. #748
    Quote Originally Posted by anon5123 View Post
    Getting a single character to level 58 is not "winning" WoW.

    That is all.
    This depends entirely on what an individual would consider "winning" in WoW.

    If someone views getting to max level as "winning" it certainly IS pay to win.

  9. #749
    Quote Originally Posted by panda040 View Post
    If someone views getting to max level as "winning" it certainly IS pay to win.
    "well if your goal is to just kill 1 raid boss, that means you won the game!"

    lmao

  10. #750
    Scarab Lord Eugenik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prag View Post
    Your refusal/inability to acknowledge nuance in a complicated circumstance (see: hundreds of replies here alone) != me white knighting. Not surprising you’d label someone that based on a single topic.

    When Cata launched with the first DE, I was able to play at exactly 12am, while box buyers had to wait to pick it up and install. According to your definition, that’s p2w. I was way ahead of my guildies by the time they installed and got through server queues.

    Tons of AAA titles on PSN let me buy the CE/Deluxe and start playing a day ahead. Apparently that’s p2w.

    Your incredibly narrow definition is convenient to your argument but fails on simple tests.

    And before you try to reply with “but…”, just remember: any real money to bypass time sinks is p2w, because apparently context just complicates the conversation for you.
    Lolwut? You should look up the definition of non-sequitur while you look up p2w, because youre way off and none of this is relevant..
    Let's look at the test results. You are a horrible person. It says right here, you're a horrible person. We weren't even testing that. Don't let the horrible person thing get you down though. Science justified your parents choice to abandon you.

  11. #751
    Old God Vash The Stampede's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prag View Post
    You feeling personally injured by other people being level 58 through the boost is a YOU problem.
    I think you're misinterpreting the issue here. It's a game and the playing field is unfair.
    It’s created exactly zero problems for the community.
    The number on this thread says otherwise.
    No apocalyptic botting sprees, or sudden saturation of profession CDs. Just a bunch of Warriors/Mages switching to Hunters/Warlocks.
    That's very specific.
    Expecting Activision to not do Activision things, pretending Classic was some return to Indie Blizzard, and trying to reshape the definition of p2w is also a YOU issue.
    Is this a meme reference?

    It’s one thing to be like “I don’t like this”, but this whole “go back to retail/another game” while you refuse to just accept that, despite its faults, it’s an enjoyable game.
    Less enjoyable.
    You wanna complain? Fine.
    Actually yes.
    But to take ownership of a game based on what it was like FOURTEEN YEARS and literally hundreds of employees ago is a little too “get off my lawn” to take seriously.
    I don't see a problem with this. If Activision wants to ruin their future by catering to more whales then it'll be a short lived profitable experience. After WOTLK nobody will have any reason to continue to play classic, because the community feels that Cataclysm and up is when WoW declined. Fix these issues now or forever file for bankruptcy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    Not the same thing because you actually need to be logged into the game. The character boost just requires you to spend money and you are IMMEDIATELY level 58.
    58 is about 58 times more powerful than level 1. That's simple P2W math.

  12. #752
    Quote Originally Posted by anon5123 View Post
    "well if your goal is to just kill 1 raid boss, that means you won the game!"

    lmao
    I know, it sounds ridiculous but that is the truth. MMO's have no defined ending, therefore, it's up to the player to determine what "winning" is. For most i would assume its getting BiS and clearing endgame content and or full pvp gear with a high rank. Both of which can be achieved with real life money in retail at this point, sadly.

  13. #753
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Kami Dende View Post
    Just because it is your stance doesn't mean it is the definition. It just means your stance is incorrect and you refuse to change it.

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    Ironically you need to be logged into the game to activate the Boost.
    I love how the only thing you can do is nitpick one part of my comment. Which just further proves that paid character boosts are absolutely p2w.

  14. #754
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkeon View Post
    Buying any power for money is P2W. That has been my stance since always.

    Good try.
    So a game that charges you to skip a half hour grind is as much pay2win as one that let's you buy a cash-only amulet that doubles your damage output?

  15. #755
    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    So a game that charges you to skip a half hour grind is as much pay2win as one that let's you buy a cash-only amulet that doubles your damage output?
    There are varying degrees of P2W and both of your examples could easily apply. Paying to skip is an advantage, especially for an MMO game. Time is a resource in a grindy game like WoW, the boost is pretty much buying extra time over someone leveling to 58.
    The wise wolf who's pride is her wisdom isn't so sharp as drunk.

  16. #756
    Quote Originally Posted by Stardrift View Post
    I find wow is P2W while having used the boost and have no problems with it, or desire to see it changed lol

    I paid IRL cash to skip a large portion of the game. P2W.
    True anti p2wers only play xp cap lvl 20 bgs.

  17. #757
    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    So a game that charges you to skip a half hour grind is as much pay2win as one that let's you buy a cash-only amulet that doubles your damage output?
    If you're able to use real money to purchase any kind of character power then it's p2w.

  18. #758
    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    So a game that charges you to skip a half hour grind is as much pay2win as one that let's you buy a cash-only amulet that doubles your damage output?
    Nope, that's why I mentioned that there games with much worse practices than WoW's. Doesn't change the fact that you are buying power and time on WoW. Which is the discussion at hand. (Well, in general, I guess this one is more aimed towards the boost in Classic, but you know what I mean).

  19. #759
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    If you're able to use real money to purchase any kind of character power then it's p2w.
    So you don't bother distinguishing then? Even if someone's character is actually a lot weaker due to RNG or a lack of time to play, you consider them to be just as much pay-2-win as you would if someone had bought a character with all the top gear and a +50% damage buff that can only be bought for real cash. Even if you can out-compete another character in PvP or PvE you still consider yourself a loser because they saved a couple of dozen hours in the levelling process?

  20. #760
    Quote Originally Posted by Vash The Stampede View Post
    HA! NO! WoW has many methods to gain power and those two are the most relevant. Factions which can get you gear, and pvp can reward you with gear. Spec and macros also play a huge role. As a Ret Paladin I plan to abuse Seal twisting and spec a certain way that no whale is going to know about. You won't function very well as a Paladin without same basic macros. This is not something you can do on Shadowlands since there's no spec and macros don't give you as much of an advantage as it did in TBC.

    As someone who's played on private servers I can tell you I know exactly how it feels to boost to 58 because private servers have done it. Though its a feature everyone got, and not those who payed money for it. Where you think Activision got the idea of giving alliance Paladins Seal of Blood and starting players off at level 58 from? It's a huge advantage that nobody would avoid abusing.


    I get it but you're not a special snow flake to get it because you decided to pull out moms credit card. You want to boost to 58 then let everyone do it for free. Even Steven.

    You're not listening to why it's making it harder.
    1. Harder to group with players to do 1-60 dungeons.
    2. People taking my ore because they're too high of a level for mobs to attack.
    3. Huge PvP advantage against leveling players because 58 > 35.
    4. By the time leveling players hit 70 the boosted guys won't do dungeons with them because they already ran them.
    5. Encouraging more bots because those people don't pay $15 per month.
    6. Ruining the economy because of said bots.

    Yep!
    LOL, Moms credit card? I pulled out my own wallet I have paid my own way since I was 14. I started playing when I was 17 My time is more important than $60.00 when It takes me months to level to 58, hell Im only lvl 62.5 currently in BCC because of play time constraints.

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