Thread: "Pay to win"

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  1. #841
    Quote Originally Posted by roahn the warlock View Post
    It objectively is pay to win.

    That is all.
    You objectively do not know what either "objectively" means or what "pay to win" means. That is all.

  2. #842
    Immortal roahn the warlock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrollHunter3000 View Post
    You objectively do not know what either "objectively" means or what "pay to win" means. That is all.
    It means paying for an advantage. If you can explain how an instant lvl 58, a mount, bags, and gold in TBC is not an advantage. (Especially when TBC had no catchup mechanic until Kara) I will send you a box of cookies, personally.

    Do I care about competitive raiding or Arena in TBC? No, I do not, who cares who's glad or server firsts Magtherdon. but to go around saying it isn't P2W is laughable. At least own it.

    Example. Clash of Clans, you can buy boosts to high level crap, or you can grind for it. Pay to win. It doesn't literally mean you win, lol. Feel free to argue how big of a P2W advantage it is, but don't go saying it isn't because it's not a major advantage. That's just splitting hairs.
    Last edited by roahn the warlock; 2021-06-20 at 10:30 PM.
    It was never Hardcore Vs Casual. It was Socialites Vs. Solo players
    Quote Originally Posted by ringpriest View Post
    World of Warcraft started life as a Computer Roleplaying Game, where part of the fun of the game experience was pretending to be your character. Stuff like applying poisons and eating food enhanced the verisimilitude of the experience of playing a fantasy character in another world. Now that game has changed to become a tactical arcade lobby game.

  3. #843
    Quote Originally Posted by kail View Post
    Yes when the treadmill of mythic runs came that was it..

  4. #844
    Quote Originally Posted by roahn the warlock View Post
    It means paying for an advantage. If you can explain how an instant lvl 58, a mount, bags, and gold in TBC is not an advantage. I will send you a box of cookies, personally.
    lmao less than 20g worth of shit gear and 12 slot bags along with 25 actual gold and only 60% mount speed. HUGE advantage. ABSOLUTE insane advantage. I can't believe what an adv.. oh I literally just made 2000g in the last day from prospecting ore and selling gems.

    Guess that 25g on my boosted character really helped me out. Fucking retard.

    Quote Originally Posted by roahn the warlock View Post
    Do I care about competitive raiding or Arena in TBC? No, I do not, who cares who's glad or server firsts Magtherdon. but to go around saying it isn't P2W is laughable. At least own it.

    Example. Clash of Clans, you can buy boosts to high level crap, or you can grind for it. Pay to win. It doesn't literally mean you win, lol.

    How the fuck does buying a level 58 boost help you with any of those things? Are you fucking dense?
    Last edited by TrollHunter3000; 2021-06-20 at 10:30 PM.

  5. #845
    Immortal roahn the warlock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrollHunter3000 View Post
    lmao less than 20g worth of shit gear and 12 slot bags along with 25 actual gold and only 60% mount speed. HUGE advantage. ABSOLUTE insane advantage. I can't believe what an adv.. oh I literally just made 2000g in the last day from prospecting ore and selling gems.

    Guess that 25g on my boosted character really helped me out. Fucking retard.

    How the fuck does buying a level 58 boost help you with any of those things? Are you fucking dense?
    Someone's never been a progression raider before. And you failed. it may not be a HUGE advantage. But it is an advantage. lol.
    It was never Hardcore Vs Casual. It was Socialites Vs. Solo players
    Quote Originally Posted by ringpriest View Post
    World of Warcraft started life as a Computer Roleplaying Game, where part of the fun of the game experience was pretending to be your character. Stuff like applying poisons and eating food enhanced the verisimilitude of the experience of playing a fantasy character in another world. Now that game has changed to become a tactical arcade lobby game.

  6. #846
    Quote Originally Posted by roahn the warlock View Post
    Someone's never been a progression raider before. And you failed. it may not be a HUGE advantage. But it is an advantage. lol.
    ????????????? You're going to tell me I've never been a progression raider before when your dumb fuck ass over here thinks 25 gold and a 60% mount is an advantage?

    I like how you want me to explain to you how it's not an advantage. You're basically asking me to prove a negative, impossible. Why don't you give me a singular argument to how having this level 58 boost is any sort of advantage at all in either rated pvp or progression raiding.

  7. #847
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prag View Post
    That’s just validating my point. I don’t know where we went wrong where we classify not having to spend 9g on a mount - which is less than one quest at max level - in the same category as traditional pay-to-win items like special ammo/weapons/armor.

    It’s the same thing. The outrage for Steed was more “I don’t like the shop”, and “p2w” was just a provocative and convenient thing to add fuel to the discussion.

    I’m not saying there’s no advantage and that these aren’t pay-for-time-saved services. I’m challenging the part where people correlate that to winning.
    There are degrees.. hasve you ever heard of nuance? Jesus christ, it shouldnt be that hard of a concept to grasp.. Is buying armor/weapons/ammo p2w? Yes. Is buying a boost p2w? Yes. Are they on the same spectrum? Yes. Are they identical? No.
    Let's look at the test results. You are a horrible person. It says right here, you're a horrible person. We weren't even testing that. Don't let the horrible person thing get you down though. Science justified your parents choice to abandon you.

  8. #848
    To me, "winning" WoW is being among the top players of your class, beating the most difficult bosses as part of top 100, earning Gladiator and being first with having the latest, hardest-to-get shit because YOU played your way there.

    Sorry, there's nothing you can buy in this game, official or through RMT, that'd make you a winner by my standards. Bags? A mount? Level 58? LOL! That's not "winning", that's fucking time-saving.

    So no, WoW is not P2W. Identifying people buying services by other players to get X mount, X ilvl or X achievement is easy as hell. They ain't winners, they're whales. P2Whale at best.

    If someone's of the idea that I don't know... Gathering 10k pet charms, or having the AH vendor mount, or merely reaching a certain level (literally the most basic-ass part of the game) is "winning", then so be it. They can go around professing how they consider Pet Battle champions and players with max level characters, winners at WoW.
    Last edited by SensationalBanana; 2021-06-20 at 11:10 PM.

  9. #849
    Quote Originally Posted by Queen of Hamsters View Post
    To me, "winning" WoW is being among the top players of your class, beating the most difficult bosses as part of top 100, earning Gladiator and being first with having the latest, hardest-to-get shit because YOU played your way there.

    Sorry, there's nothing you can buy in this game, official or through RMT, that'd make you a winner by my standards. Bags? A mount? Level 58? LOL! That's not "winning", that's fucking time-saving.

    So no, WoW is not P2W. Identifying people buying services by other players to get X mount, X ilvl or X achievement is easy as hell. They ain't winners, they're whales. P2Whale at best.

    If someone's of the idea that I don't know... Gathering 10k pet charms, or having the AH vendor mount, or merely reaching a certain level (literally the most basic-ass part of the game) is "winning", then so be it. They can go around professing how they consider Pet Battle champions and players with max level characters, winners at WoW.
    Hey don't be down on the pet battlers and mount collectors. They're legit ways to play and totally understand them being a bit miffed that to complete the game in their chosen way requires a swipe of the credit card. What I don't have patience for is people complaining that boosting a character to the start of a new expansion is winning in any way, shape or form.

  10. #850
    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    Hey don't be down on the pet battlers and mount collectors. They're legit ways to play and totally understand them being a bit miffed that to complete the game in their chosen way requires a swipe of the credit card. What I don't have patience for is people complaining that boosting a character to the start of a new expansion is winning in any way, shape or form.

    Well sure, I get that people can get miffed, but in the end nobody can ever "win" at that shit without either a) working to get every available mount in-game or b) paying their way to each and every pixel counting for the achievement. That'd be a LOT of money.

    Neither one would be "winning" at the collector's game in my book. I am a pet and mount collector, people having store/tcg/promotion mounts as well as 10+ mounts no longer obtainable on me, don't bother me at all. Especially now that store stuff can be purchased with in-game gold. At 450 unique ones (when I quit months ago) no new player could buy store mounts/TCG mounts and even get close.

    And agreed, the whole "boosting is winning!"-argument is... Tired.

  11. #851
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    Seems to me more you're moving the goalpost, but thanks for enlightening the more than obvious options.
    over 800 fucking posts in the thread, sue me for not reading them all. And even with the obvious options, people still gotta be bitches about it and cry on these forums.

  12. #852
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    Quote Originally Posted by Queen of Hamsters View Post
    To me, "winning" WoW is being among the top players of your class, beating the most difficult bosses as part of top 100, earning Gladiator and being first with having the latest, hardest-to-get shit because YOU played your way there.
    Thats not how other games operate as p2w. It doesnt literally mean "to win" and your getting hung up on that. When cash shops offer time gated skips for money, or armor/weapons that increase power, theyre considered p2w. Is New World not p2w because youre not winning the game?
    Let's look at the test results. You are a horrible person. It says right here, you're a horrible person. We weren't even testing that. Don't let the horrible person thing get you down though. Science justified your parents choice to abandon you.

  13. #853
    Quote Originally Posted by anon5123 View Post
    >months later
    >people still buttmad about an optional one-time-per-account boost

    it's the seethe that keeps on seething
    I'm honestly not that against the one time boost in tBC. I understand it helps a lot of ppl who missed out or hated the vanilla leveling process and want to experience tBC alone. Best implementation would be a free one for any account that doesn't have a lv 60 in a server but Blizzard wanted that extra income so it was a financial success.

    I do worry if they expand it to unlimited boosts tbh. It is technically power/advantage behind a paywall.
    The wise wolf who's pride is her wisdom isn't so sharp as drunk.

  14. #854
    I would just like to say again that if this was a conversation about literally any other MMO, everyone would call it p2w. But suddenly it stops being p2w when Blizzard does it.

  15. #855
    Quote Originally Posted by Jinpachi View Post
    over 800 fucking posts in the thread, sue me for not reading them all.
    I didn't complain you about not reading them, i am pointing out that your opinion contributes nothing of value to any of those threads and essentially is just an insult to those that do not like the cashshop.

    If that was your goal, whatever floats your boat.

  16. #856
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    I didn't complain you about not reading them, i am pointing out that your opinion contributes nothing of value to any of those threads and essentially is just an insult to those that do not like the cashshop.

    If that was your goal, whatever floats your boat.
    nOtHiNg oF vAlUe. People can be insulted, they don't pay my bills and i don't give a fuck what they think. bitches gonna bitch, and I'll pay for what i want in-game if i don't feel like sinking the time into it. My days of raiding 30+ hours a week are long gone.

  17. #857
    Quote Originally Posted by Jinpachi View Post
    People can be insulted, they don't pay my bills and i don't give a fuck what they think.
    That's a pretty low bar, you know?

    "Fuck you, you're not paying my bills, i am allowed to insult you!".

  18. #858
    The Unstoppable Force Super Kami Dende's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    I would just like to say again that if this was a conversation about literally any other MMO, everyone would call it p2w. But suddenly it stops being p2w when Blizzard does it.
    FFXIV has Expac Boosts as well. It's also not P2W there.

  19. #859
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Kami Dende View Post
    FFXIV has Expac Boosts as well. It's also not P2W there.
    I am a huge fan of FFXIV.

    I call the boosts in that game p2w too.

  20. #860
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    I am a huge fan of FFXIV.

    I call the boosts in that game p2w too.
    What are you winning with a boost? The term has lost all meaning at this point.

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