"Pay to win"

[munkeyinorbit]

It should go without saying that the people who leveled to 60 naturally have the advantage over people buying a level 58 boost, going into TBC. They have more gold and access to raid gear. Also, they're level 60, not level 58. The level 58 players will have an inherent disadvantage due to the level difference, which will be compounded by the lower gear level.

So, on all levels, the idea that a level boost is P2W is wrong. You're literally paying money for a catch-up mechanism that doesn't even catch you up.

You're confused. It's not a comparison to lvl 60. It's a comparison to a lvl 1.

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You want to read between the lines, ill get the boost cause i cba to play anything related to classic, and that includes the 1-60 leveling, its that simple xd after so many years of wow leveling is a chore, nothing more, it was content when vanilla launched, thats about it.

That's fine. It's your money. Just don't delude yourself into thinking you're not part of the problem. By doing this you are P2W.

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Even if the game had zero endgame you still wouldn't "win" at lvl58, you would still have 12 levels to go.

While the other guy has 69 levels to go. When the other guy gets to 58 he will probably have worst gear than the P2W guy and likely be 12 levels behind. P2W guy has an advantage and it's gained by paying money.

[Snuffe]

I havent followed anything on tbc but, but you also start fresh at lvl 1 there? so if you wanna play tbc in the future, is it best if you just level a class right now in classic to then transfer it when tbc releases?so you have a 60 char at the start. ty

[Frozenbro]

While the other guy has 69 levels to go. When the other guy gets to 58 he will probably have worst gear than the P2W guy and likely be 12 levels behind. P2W guy has an advantage and it's gained by paying money.

Its p2w in your own strict definition, it wont give anyone an advantage in strict TBC content, it doesnt mess with tbc progression either, in fact it helps it overall cause more people will tackle TBC right off the bat so in a few days you will have a larger pool of raiders to choose from, cause thats honestly the only real part of the game, endgame, the only people who i see pissed about this are the classic purists that are full geared and think themselves as good players that deserve to cross the portal asap and no one else, when in fact they arent good since classic is that easy xd

[Jonnusthegreat]

I havent followed anything on tbc but, but you also start fresh at lvl 1 there? so if you wanna play tbc in the future, is it best if you just level a class right now in classic to then transfer it when tbc releases?so you have a 60 char at the start. ty

Yes if you play Classic you will have a choice to boost an equivalent character on BC servers on release for free.

[arkanon]

Yes if you play Classic you will have a choice to boost an equivalent character on BC servers on release for free.

Where did you come up with this theory? Oh wait, I think i have finally figured out your intentionally vague ramblings - you are comparing a lvl 60 character progressing into TBC with the server as "boosting" it to 60. Right. Obviously i knew you were intentionally being vague in an attempt to feel smart, but now I understand what you are trying to say. You are wrong, obviously, but at least I figured it out.

[Snuffe]

Yes if you play Classic you will have a choice to boost an equivalent character on BC servers on release for free.

aha, thanks.

[Kralljin]

They didn't "somehow" manage to level their characters -- they leveled them through Vanilla content because TBC didn't exist yet. By the time TBC was released, they were already fully leveled up.

During the timeframe of 07 and 08, TBC already existed, a timeframe i specifically lined out.

Look, this is a pointless discussion -- Boosts are coming whether you like it or not. They are coming for people like me, who don't want to slog through the shittiest part of WoW's history. Deal with it.

It's really funny how you are foaming at the mouth at this, when i literally said that despite being against boosts, it's not really hot issue for me.

I'm pointing out that boosts are against the spirit of the older iterations, that's just a fact and getting all pissed over people *rightfully* calling Blizzard out on that is just silly, especially then going on some rant how casuals kept WoW alive, when Classic & TBC do not need Millions of players to remain profitable.

[chiddie]

WRONG.

BC happened about 13 to 14 years ago.

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Didn't you read? He said "...token introduction to retail and paid realm transfers to both retail and classic." Not "...token introduction to retail or paid realm transfers to both retail and classic."

Stop misrepresenting people to fit your agenda.

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Your wrong there buddy. Leveling is content. The boost is to skip content and give you a power increase. That's pay to win.

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The game starts at level 1. You don't create a character and they are lvl 58. It's not a DK pre SL. It is P2W. You get your advantage from skipping the leveling and getting a power increase with the set of blues.

You don’t get ANY advantage because the expansion starts literally at level 58.

You win the useless 1-58 part, no less, no more. It’s a time saving? Of course it is, they did it EXACTLY because it’s a time saver for ppl who want to play TBC but cannot bother to waste months leveling in a dead world.

You have a curious idea of what winning is.

[Echocho]

You don’t get ANY advantage because the expansion starts literally at level 58.

You win the useless 1-58 part, no less, no more. It’s a time saving? Of course it is, they did it EXACTLY because it’s a time saver for ppl who want to play TBC but cannot bother to waste months leveling in a dead world.

You have a curious idea of what winning is.

Eactly. It's like getting to the chess tournament 5 hours early. You still have to participate in the actual tournament and be better than everyone else in order to win.

[Ludvig]

aha, thanks.

This actually isn't true. When TBC releases, you login to your same classic character and can now do TBC content. But you will have a choice to transfer a snapshot of the character back to a classic realm or pay to get a copy of it on a classic realm.

[munkeyinorbit]

Its p2w in your own strict definition, it wont give anyone an advantage in strict TBC content, it doesnt mess with tbc progression either, in fact it helps it overall cause more people will tackle TBC right off the bat so in a few days you will have a larger pool of raiders to choose from, cause thats honestly the only real part of the game, endgame, the only people who i see pissed about this are the classic purists that are full geared and think themselves as good players that deserve to cross the portal asap and no one else, when in fact they arent good since classic is that easy xd

There is a huge advantage in "strictly" TBC. Player 1 logs into TBC. Buys a boost. Has a lvl 58 in full dungeon blue quality gear.
Player 2 logs in 2 weeks before launch. Gets all the way to lvl 58 by the time BC launches. Struggles to find people to run dungeons while leveling as the game is lvl 60 or empty. He's in greens with an occasional blue.

Who has the advantage? Anything but the P2W player is people refusing to admit that they are wrong. Player 1 purchased their gear with money.

Now I expect a lot of goal post moving and mental gymnastics for your justification of your argument but that fact is I have taken your "strict" definition of what content is and proven you objectively wrong.

[Jonnusthegreat]

Where did you come up with this theory? Oh wait, I think i have finally figured out your intentionally vague ramblings - you are comparing a lvl 60 character progressing into TBC with the server as "boosting" it to 60. Right. Obviously i knew you were intentionally being vague in an attempt to feel smart, but now I understand what you are trying to say. You are wrong, obviously, but at least I figured it out.

It's not wrong. You can get a character above level 1 on BC on launch day without ever playing BC or paying for a boost. That is an in-game advantage over others that was not earned by playing BC. Fortunately, it doesn't affect BC content much.

[Frozenbro]

There is a huge advantage in "strictly" TBC. Player 1 logs into TBC. Buys a boost. Has a lvl 58 in full dungeon blue quality gear.
Player 2 logs in 2 weeks before launch. Gets all the way to lvl 58 by the time BC launches. Struggles to find people to run dungeons while leveling as the game is lvl 60 or empty. He's in greens with an occasional blue.

Who has the advantage? Anything but the P2W player is people refusing to admit that they are wrong. Player 1 purchased their gear with money.

Now I expect a lot of goal post moving and mental gymnastics for your justification of your argument but that fact is I have taken your "strict" definition of what content is and proven you objectively wrong.

The argument lies in what blizz thinks matters for the release and what the community thinks matters, and the fact is, everything you mentioned doesnt matter, its trivial filler content that no one cares about, the guy who paid a boost is just skipping trash filler content to have gear thats gonna be replaced in days, while the guy leveling is gonna reach 60 with equal trash gear and start replacing all that gear, just like the boosted guy, the boosted gear wont help you pvp properly and wont let you raid properly, same with the gear of the guy that lvled, thats all.

Now if you ask me, if they offered a free 58 boost for every account without a lvl 58+, im all for it, but if its paid and they dont add anything else but this, ill accept this compromise cause im not leveling in classic just to play TBC, my standards are higher.

[Kyanion]

That's fine. It's your money. Just don't delude yourself into thinking you're not part of the problem. By doing this you are P2W.

Oh no! Someone on the internet thinks this is p2w so his character must be stopped from going to TBC! They are part of no 'problem'. They are not winning anything. They are instead getting to play TBC with other people who are going into that expansion. What ever 'advantages' you think they are getting would be instantly nullified as they get a couple levels and new gear. Too bad they'll also be really slow on a slow mount they can't do anything about for quite a while. So I guess that time loss doesn't matter to you.

[chiddie]

There is a huge advantage in "strictly" TBC. Player 1 logs into TBC. Buys a boost. Has a lvl 58 in full dungeon blue quality gear.
Player 2 logs in 2 weeks before launch. Gets all the way to lvl 58 by the time BC launches. Struggles to find people to run dungeons while leveling as the game is lvl 60 or empty. He's in greens with an occasional blue.

Who has the advantage? Anything but the P2W player is people refusing to admit that they are wrong. Player 1 purchased their gear with money.

Now I expect a lot of goal post moving and mental gymnastics for your justification of your argument but that fact is I have taken your "strict" definition of what content is and proven you objectively wrong.

There is no advantage because despite what you think TBC, exactly like all the other exp, is almost all about max level activities.

The only thing you win is getting to level 70 X time before the guy that started at level 1. Is it a “win”? That depends on your concept of “win”.

[Jonnusthegreat]

That's fine. It's your money. Just don't delude yourself into thinking you're not part of the problem. By doing this you are P2W.

It's not P2W, but it is a microtransaction. People that do this are part of the microtransaction problem, but not the P2W problem.

[Clozer]

It's not P2W, but it is a microtransaction. People that do this are part of the microtransaction problem, but not the P2W problem.

How is buying an ingame advantage with real money not p2w? Imagine you can pay 10 bucks in dota and start at level 10 instead of 1. LOL.

[Jonnusthegreat]

How is buying an ingame advantage with real money not p2w? Imagine you can pay 10 bucks in dota and start at level 10 instead of 1. LOL.

It's less of an advantage than copying a Classic character. You are actually paying money for less of an advantage.

Your analogy is horrendously wrong. A more accurate analogy would be paying 10 bucks to start your character at level 10 in dota, and all players that played dota 1 automatically start level 12 (completely forgiving the genre inequity of levels).

[Argorwal]

There is a huge advantage in "strictly" TBC. Player 1 logs into TBC. Buys a boost. Has a lvl 58 in full dungeon blue quality gear.
Player 2 logs in 2 weeks before launch. Gets all the way to lvl 58 by the time BC launches. Struggles to find people to run dungeons while leveling as the game is lvl 60 or empty. He's in greens with an occasional blue.

Who has the advantage? Anything but the P2W player is people refusing to admit that they are wrong. Player 1 purchased their gear with money.

Now I expect a lot of goal post moving and mental gymnastics for your justification of your argument but that fact is I have taken your "strict" definition of what content is and proven you objectively wrong.

The person with the advantage is the person playing classic who lucked out that Blizzard decided to do progression servers to TBC and can bring his 6 level 60s with 70k gold and T3 epics for playing different game than TBC classic.

[Selvari7]

Some of us have family and kids and work, we longer are living in our mothers basement. So no it will take months to level through vanilla I wasn't gonna play TBCC until they I read they were offering boost.

Exactly. For many people they may have first played TBC back in University or in highschool when they had more free time.

However when you have a real job or family to take care of, it's not exactly easy to keep to video game hours.