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  1. #1

    TK and SSC must be launch content

    Phase 2 release of tier 5 will break up the TBC experience. Tier 4 does not stand up on it's own. TBC is defined by the long winding road that was the raiding and attunement journey. It would be better to release TBC classic later and have all launch content available as it was in January 2007.

    And if anyone thinks this would obsolete tier 4, you do not understand how BC worked. Content pacing is a concept for the modern game. BC content innately paces itself.

  2. #2
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    Hard disagree lol.

    How does the TBC leveling content, dungeon content, season one arena content and "entry level raiding" content not stand on it's own compared to phase 2? You realize that all Phase 2 content brings is two raids and an additional arena season?

    There was a big problem with TBC launch in that over 15 years ago you had T4, T5 and a T6 raid (not really on Hyjal) all in at once. You know where this caused problems? Arena and it's implications with PvE content. Getting season 1 gear (which is T4 equivalent) made the gearing
    in TBC fucking retarded when both T4 and T5 existed at the same time.

    PvE gear dominated PvP for a long ass time and isn't anything new, but part of the reason it was so bad in TBC is because the PvE content was literally 1 to 1.5 seasons ahead of the PvP gear in gear progression.

    It makes logical sense, and breaking up T4, T5, T6 and Sunwell content is the best approach IMO. This makes the PvP seasons line up properly with the raid release content, and your concerns about T4 not being able to have substance is sort of silly if I'm being honest. It's not like they have to adhere to ~6 months between seasons either, T4 could literally last 3-4 months if they wanted to, with everything else being released in a more predictable fashion that we are all accustom too. If you're worried about having excessive amount of time to farm previous content invalidating future release content, I think you're approaching the Classic version of these games wrong to begin with. They said they're going to use some of the higher difficulty versions of the instances themselves, and I think that's good enough.

    TBC is a lot more mechanically challenging than Naxxaramas was, and with most raids behaving at the bare baseline of Naxxaramas and above, there's going to be a lot more challenge for those out there. Is it anywhere close to retail? No. But if you're playing 15 year old content for challenging content, I don't know what to tell you.

    I'd have to go back and find interviews but Blizzard themselves at the time said one of their biggest regrets with some of the expansions they did (including TBC) was how front loaded TBC was, with a giant gap between Black Temple and SWP.

  3. #3
    Why must it be?

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by fuzzylogic111 View Post
    Phase 2 release of tier 5 will break up the TBC experience. Tier 4 does not stand up on it's own. TBC is defined by the long winding road that was the raiding and attunement journey. It would be better to release TBC classic later and have all launch content available as it was in January 2007.

    And if anyone thinks this would obsolete tier 4, you do not understand how BC worked. Content pacing is a concept for the modern game. BC content innately paces itself.
    Completely disagree, and actually go as far as saying this is absurd reasoning.

  5. #5
    The Undying Slowpoke is a Gamer's Avatar
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    With how many people singled out Kara as their best memory, I think it and Gruul can stand on its own.
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  6. #6
    I have great memories from TBC and I'm pretty sure what made it great was that all tiers were almost always current. I'm all for changes to make the gaming experience better, but content phasing should not happen for a game that did not have it.

  7. #7
    Disagree, but there's some kind of point here still, P1 can't go on too long, just has to be a shorter phase than average.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Slowpoke is a Gamer View Post
    With how many people singled out Kara as their best memory, I think it and Gruul can stand on its own.
    I guess you havent played much on any private server. Content will get cleared very fast. I also assume that blizzard as lazy as they are with 2.4.3 will launch, so not pre nerf. SSC und TK from the beginning is the best bet

  9. #9
    As long as each Phase is adequately separated in regards to its size, it's fine.

    I don't mind a 6 month p3 with BT+Hyjal, but i would mind a 6 month p4 with zul'aman.

    so, it will all depend on how long each one will last.

    Molten Core lasted for 5 months~ but that included a long leveling. BC has us starting at 60, but has Karazhan, Gruul and Magtheridon, so a good 4~ months feels adequate. Or as long as it takes to get Dragonspine Trophy \o/

  10. #10
    It wont be so have fun. Everyone creaming over tbc like it is some saving god of expansion will just get more of the same. Once again only realy way to enjoy tbc is with a time machine.

  11. #11
    No, we don’t need T5 obsoleting T4 from week 1.

    People will absolutely be clearing SSC and TK in half quest/heroic dungeon gear.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Argorwal View Post
    No, we don’t need T5 obsoleting T4 from week 1.

    People will absolutely be clearing SSC and TK in half quest/heroic dungeon gear.
    Even the world first guild to clear tier 5 will still be running Gruul's Lair for DST and farming badges in Kara. There was absolutely no obsoleting in BC until 2.3 when attunements were lifted.

  13. #13
    People would flat out skip T4 if they could just go straight to T5. T3/Naxx gear is stronger than 90% of drops until TK/SSC and some go even further than that. High end guilds would have no incentive other than Attunement for T5 to ever touch T4 content.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by fuzzylogic111 View Post
    Even the world first guild to clear tier 5 will still be running Gruul's Lair for DST and farming badges in Kara. There was absolutely no obsoleting in BC until 2.3 when attunements were lifted.
    There is no reason to rush to the finish line.

    TBC is a 2 year ordeal, having all that released at the same time is just rushing it. Let it be by stages as originally intended. No reason whatsoever to speed it up that much.

  15. #15
    The Undying Slowpoke is a Gamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by exsanguinate View Post
    I guess you havent played much on any private server. Content will get cleared very fast. I also assume that blizzard as lazy as they are with 2.4.3 will launch, so not pre nerf. SSC und TK from the beginning is the best bet
    Imagine just not bothering to read anything before coming on here to complain about BC.

    They already said they are doing pre-nerf bosses this time around.
    FFXIV - Maduin (Dynamis DC)

  16. #16
    Nop, doesnt make sense to have it at the start.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by fuzzylogic111 View Post
    Phase 2 release of tier 5 will break up the TBC experience. Tier 4 does not stand up on it's own. TBC is defined by the long winding road that was the raiding and attunement journey. It would be better to release TBC classic later and have all launch content available as it was in January 2007.

    And if anyone thinks this would obsolete tier 4, you do not understand how BC worked. Content pacing is a concept for the modern game. BC content innately paces itself.
    Dude tier 4 had 3 raids. Sure the two 25 mans were short, but karazhan is a massive massive raid that could easily eat up two nights of most guilds. There is plenty and I mean plenty of content for one phase.

    Having tk and SSC with tier 4 would be overloading the content up front so hard it would be burned through

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by fuzzylogic111 View Post
    Even the world first guild to clear tier 5 will still be running Gruul's Lair for DST and farming badges in Kara. There was absolutely no obsoleting in BC until 2.3 when attunements were lifted.
    Everyone used DST as the example because there really aren’t many others.

    Entire armor sets are obsolete with T5 overshadowing T4 in basically every way, not to mention weapons.

    This isn’t classic where early raids are missing 4-5 entire slots and hybrids are screwed out of their tier set.

  19. #19
    "Even the world first guild to clear tier 5 will still be running Gruul's Lair for DST and farming badges in Kara. There was absolutely no obsoleting in BC until 2.3 when attunements were lifted."

    I mean I guess sure but it still takes most of the substance from T4 content and I think it makes more sense with how people play the game today to break up the Tiers. The front loading in TBC was a negative imo but back during the original TBC people consumed the content overall at a much slower pace. They can adjust the time between the phases which is an important factor in a phase that may feel "shallow".
    I actually felt that for the most part the pace they released the phases in Classic was fairly good (Except Naxx, I felt that released to soon). Honestly T4 will absolutely stand on it's own simply due to it being the honeymoon phase and going through the initial leveling>pre-bis(PvP)>raiding(PvP) is some of the best parts of any expansion.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by fuzzylogic111 View Post
    And if anyone thinks this would obsolete tier 4, you do not understand how BC worked. Content pacing is a concept for the modern game. BC content innately paces itself.
    I guess that I don't understand how BC worked. Enlighten me. From my point of view, it looks like most players would zerg through t4 once for the attunement and begin farming t5 immediately, with rare exceptions for certain high quality items.
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