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  1. #341
    Quote Originally Posted by Mercane View Post
    TIL calling an argument poorly constructed, off-topic, and nonsensical is 'whining'.

    When was the last time Flying was 'default'? It's coming with pathfinder, just like it always has (since Warlords), the criteria have been shuffled around. Delaying flying has absolutely nothing to do with 'difficulty' and everything to do with keeping MAU counts arbitrarily high before the mid-expansion lull. Not exactly a difficult concept for most people to wrap their head around, but tell us more about quests people don't care about, Classic, or whatever nonsense you feel supports your argument.


    Quote Originally Posted by DarkAmbient View Post
    "How does making things take longer cause people to spend more time doing things" Hmm it's a mystery...
    If people want flying so much it seems to me like denying it would just make them not play.

  2. #342
    The Insane Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    what would be really nice is if they had some balls and decided not to add flying in tbc classic because after all if flying was such a huge mistake...
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  3. #343
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilfire View Post
    Once again flying will only be unlocked for already outdated content while being unavailable in the Maw and Korthia. This is Argus all over again. Next expansion MUST have flying in from the START and it must be usable EVERYWHERE.
    lol

    Of all the things to complain about in regards to this expansion... this isn't one of them. Grow up, get your priorities together, find something else to complain about.

    To be honest, I really don't even miss flying. The zones, in my opinion, are so well designed that flying doesn't feel "necessary". Now, that is not to say I wouldn't enjoy it making the daily wow chores go by faster.

  4. #344
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilfire View Post
    Once again flying will only be unlocked for already outdated content while being unavailable in the Maw and Korthia. This is Argus all over again. Next expansion MUST have flying in from the START and it must be usable EVERYWHERE.
    Wait.... you expected it to be available in the Maw and Korthia.... are you new to this game?

  5. #345
    The Insane DeltrusDisc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wilfire View Post
    Once again flying will only be unlocked for already outdated content while being unavailable in the Maw and Korthia. This is Argus all over again. Next expansion MUST have flying in from the START and it must be usable EVERYWHERE.
    I think any real WoW player knew the Maw would never have flying.
    It just doesn't fit. This isn't new, either, given end-game zones.
    "For Teldrassil."
    Quote Originally Posted by mmocd061d7bab8 View Post
    yeh but lava is just very hot water

  6. #346
    Quote Originally Posted by DarkAmbient View Post
    "How does making things take longer cause people to spend more time doing things" Hmm it's a mystery...
    How does completing a daily quest in 20 minutes instead of 10 keep you playing for an extra month?

  7. #347
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilfire View Post
    Once again flying will only be unlocked for already outdated content while being unavailable in the Maw and Korthia. This is Argus all over again. Next expansion MUST have flying in from the START and it must be usable EVERYWHERE.
    You feel tricked cause you don't know how Blizzard operates.

    First, Blizzard never ever just gives shit out for players. Blizzard has been trying since the beginning to try and make this game a fucking job for people. Do this for this x amount of hours and you get this mount and a achievement. Blizzard wants you to grind and grind away for nothing or something at minimal.

    Second, Blizzard needs, and wants, you too stay in game for as long as possible. It makes their shard holders very very happy. And it makes the numbers look phenomenal.
    People on this thread only get pissed at you when you don't agree with them...FACT

  8. #348
    Quote Originally Posted by chaoticcrono View Post
    fun is subjective... if running through a dozen mobs to get to a quest was fun maybe people wouldn't try to skip it.

    its almost as though tedious time wasting bullshit isnt fun... hence why people try to skip it.
    I agree, that some people feel like that. For me its not fun fighting some mobs, walking towards the next group and a dive bomb happens. Or not being able to mine.

    But i agree everyone has his or her own opinion of flying. If or when it should happen. But the notion that everyone was flying at launch is false. Also calling it a trick by blizzard is false. because that would mean that blizzard promised something else. they did not. all they did was make it more easy to get. And if the patch drops before july it is also sooner as normal.

    And i think a major point people are skipping over is blizzards reason. They spent time, money, effort into world building. That would all be wasted on stuff. Lets make a x by x big zone. And only 5% is being seen because of everyone flying over it. Kinda a waste.

    But i really do not get the crying about it. It was patch x.2, now its is patch x,1. so its already a bit sooner. but hey, lets skip leveling 2. its all just wasted time anyway.

  9. #349
    Quote Originally Posted by baskev View Post
    .

    And i think a major point people are skipping over is blizzards reason. They spent time, money, effort into world building. That would all be wasted on stuff. Lets make a x by x big zone. And only 5% is being seen because of everyone flying over it. Kinda a waste.
    .
    Only if Blizzard continues to invest in world building that tries to pretend flight doesn't exist.

    I get real tired of people acting as though the only way world building and exploration can happen is from the ground. It shows a distinct lack of imagination.

    And besides, every single dungeon and raid is already grounded. There's no harm in creating some of the outdoor zones, or parts of ever zone, flight-enabled from the beginning.
    Last edited by SirCowdog; 2021-02-24 at 05:42 AM.

  10. #350
    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    Only if Blizzard continues to invest in world building that tries to pretend flight doesn't exist.
    Yeah, because that will stop people asking for flying. Like a zone like the maw. Or many qeusts and caves we have no does not stop it. A busy roof top like ardenweil or caves like bastion will not stop it.

    And they are not pretending it does not exist. Its just not a priority. Could they do a bit more? yeah. But then people will complain: its time gated we have not flying yet we can not reach it.


    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    I get real tired of people acting as though the only way world building and exploration can happen is from the ground. It shows a distinct lack of imagination.
    I am doing that? nope. Stop seeing things that are not there. So tired of that. People seeing/reading things that are not there.

    Yes they could add more flying stuff. But if they do that it will become flying from point a to point b. And even if there is some ground stuff it will get ignored.
    Why build the rest of the world if people are just going from point a to b ? Yes they can motivade it by doing quest etc and it would be cool if they added that.
    But it still does not negated the point that its bad world building.

    Because then most levels will look like a n64 mario level. some flying platforms. And while i think you are right that it could be a addition. Take per example nagrand with its flying rocks, those would be cool places for quest stuff etc.



    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    And besides, every single dungeon and raid is already grounded. There's no harm in creating some of the outdoor zones, or parts of ever zone, flight-enabled from the beginning.
    Yes, they could do 1 zone that is only or heavy flight. like the maw is heavy walking. All people will really like that. < sarcasm

    But for real i think a anti maw zone could be fun. But again, it does not negate the problems other people have with it. ( some i agree with). Dive bombing for stuff, pvp in a unballanced realm share, it being just some floating boring islands. Not a real world building possible since there is no world. etc etc


    Thank you btw. first person who responds with a real answer why they might need to do it from the start. You might be wrong in my opinion. But still thank you.

    And let it be clear. I am not anti flying, i think the old time table of flying is to long of a wait.
    But for me ( and others on this and other forums/forum threads). Some of the negatives outway the positives.
    And we did classic and other expansions fine without flying. We do other games like this fine without flying.
    And lets be real. If blizzard does it, people will still complain. Because the content is to boring because its just flying from a to b.
    Or if they put in more tree's ( like duskwood) and stuff like that people will complain they can not easy fly through it of spot things.

    But in the end my point in responding to this thread. The thread starter acts like he and other people like him where tricked. And that is just a false statement. blizzard did not trick them. They listened and made it easy ( and most likely) sooner to get flying. For the easy part with just renow is bs. whats next free gear, no more leveling. Its a mmo/mmorpg. Not fortnite.

  11. #351
    Quote Originally Posted by cparle87 View Post
    Maybe be a less bad player who doesn't run through aggressive packs without any knowledge of how to strafe? Or buy the anti daze equipment. Or switch to tank spec when you're making long hauls. You choosing to make things as difficult as you can on yourself in order to push your agenda that things are difficult doesn't hold water.
    Sure. Maybe. If I'm the bad player you say I am, why would I want to get dazed and worry about strafing, etc., when I can just fly? I'm not sure how you figured telling me that the reason I want flying is because I'm bad would make me agree with you that grounded travel is better. You are just reinforcing my point.

    With grounded travel, the story & game are about the journey. With flying travel, the story & game are about the quests at the end point. You may say "yeah, but some of us like the journey", and I'm OK with that. I've been consistent about saying I don't mind doing the journey once. But once I complete that journey, I don't want to keep reading chapters 1-3 again and again before every subsequent chapter in the book. I'm past that point, and just want to get there.

    "Take the time to sit down and talk with your adversaries. You will learn something, and they will learn something from you. When two enemies are talking, they are not fighting. It's when the talking ceases that the ground becomes fertile for violence. So keep the conversation going."
    ~ Daryl Davis

  12. #352
    Quote Originally Posted by Ragedaug View Post
    Sure. Maybe. If I'm the bad player you say I am, why would I want to get dazed and worry about strafing, etc., when I can just fly? I'm not sure how you figured telling me that the reason I want flying is because I'm bad would make me agree with you that grounded travel is better. You are just reinforcing my point.

    With grounded travel, the story & game are about the journey. With flying travel, the story & game are about the quests at the end point. You may say "yeah, but some of us like the journey", and I'm OK with that. I've been consistent about saying I don't mind doing the journey once. But once I complete that journey, I don't want to keep reading chapters 1-3 again and again before every subsequent chapter in the book. I'm past that point, and just want to get there.
    But when someone uses intellectually dishonest memes to illustrate their biased point of view I can't not speak up.
    The most difficult thing for people to do is objectively look at something they don't like and be able to accept that it is not bad, that other people like it, and if it was changed to the way they'd like it that other people would not like it and want it changed back. The second most is to receive something they didn't want or ask for and be grateful for it, not immediately demand what they wanted instead.

  13. #353
    Quote Originally Posted by cparle87 View Post
    Maybe be a less bad player who doesn't run through aggressive packs without any knowledge of how to strafe? Or buy the anti daze equipment. Or switch to tank spec when you're making long hauls. You choosing to make things as difficult as you can on yourself in order to push your agenda that things are difficult doesn't hold water.
    but it STILl feels like going through mud with all the unnecessary twists and turns and waiting for elevators and random tiny hill being unpassable, unless you go around it. I, a bad player - play a druid. I avoid as much combat as its druidishly possible, BY DESIGN. I stealth past it. it STILL doesn't make it any less mind-numbingly annoyingly too much travel.

  14. #354
    Stealthed Defender unbound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wilfire View Post
    Once again flying will only be unlocked for already outdated content while being unavailable in the Maw and Korthia. This is Argus all over again. Next expansion MUST have flying in from the START and it must be usable EVERYWHERE.
    Sorry, but Blizz made their stance very clear with WoD. They don't want to put in the effort to design zones from the beginning to be flying complete. After being yelled at for months, Blizz caved and made zones flying complete after the fact (using the pathfinder achievement as cover).

    Now that people have accepted their transparent BS, they have continued that approach ever since.

    Blizz is simply not interested in providing a superior experience anymore. Since Cata (perhaps even in Wrath), they've shifted their view as a cash cow...which means that they put in the bare minimum of effort to maintain as many subscriptions as they can. Even though it would still be wildly profitable, they aren't going to double their spending on this game. It's all about financials in their world now.

    And, no, this doesn't mean that the developers and middle managers are bad. They are simply not being given the resources they need to provide high quality anymore.

  15. #355
    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    No, flying should be removed.
    Why? Who ground runs an entire zone if they got the flight paths. Manual flying at least has people experience more of the zone then afking while on flight paths to the next world quest area.

  16. #356
    Quote Originally Posted by Witchblade77 View Post
    but it STILl feels like going through mud with all the unnecessary twists and turns and waiting for elevators and random tiny hill being unpassable, unless you go around it. I, a bad player - play a druid. I avoid as much combat as its druidishly possible, BY DESIGN. I stealth past it. it STILL doesn't make it any less mind-numbingly annoyingly too much travel.
    I really can't believe the playerbase has gotten so unbelievably spoiled that navigating the world is declared "unnecessary." Why bother playing an mmo? Just play a lobby game already.
    The most difficult thing for people to do is objectively look at something they don't like and be able to accept that it is not bad, that other people like it, and if it was changed to the way they'd like it that other people would not like it and want it changed back. The second most is to receive something they didn't want or ask for and be grateful for it, not immediately demand what they wanted instead.

  17. #357
    Quote Originally Posted by cparle87 View Post
    I really can't believe the playerbase has gotten so unbelievably spoiled that navigating the world is declared "unnecessary." Why bother playing an mmo? Just play a lobby game already.
    I really cannot beleive that you concider getting from point a to point be by the way of zig zagging around the small hill, or waiting for the elevator to come up or down or afking on a taxi - a legitimate, valuable mmo content. this is not navigating or exploring the world. its time sinks that are there for the sake of taking up more time. nothing more nothing less.

  18. #358
    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    Only if Blizzard continues to invest in world building that tries to pretend flight doesn't exist.

    I get real tired of people acting as though the only way world building and exploration can happen is from the ground. It shows a distinct lack of imagination.

    And besides, every single dungeon and raid is already grounded. There's no harm in creating some of the outdoor zones, or parts of ever zone, flight-enabled from the beginning.
    There's that WQ in ardenweald where you have to pick up temporary faerie wings and get the moth pupas from the trees. When I did it first, I was like "oh, ok, this is cool!" (you could actually fly out from the subzone and fly everywhere in ardenweald, it was on you for a minute or 2 I think, was fixed in days). But then how many times I have to complete these before I can say "gimme my flying back!". (And then of course you can't even complete that wq on a flying mount because you have to pick stuff and we have no Blacksmithing stirrups in Shadowlands so in itself is the perfect "immune to flight WQ)

  19. #359
    Quote Originally Posted by Witchblade77 View Post
    I really cannot beleive that you concider getting from point a to point be by the way of zig zagging around the small hill, or waiting for the elevator to come up or down or afking on a taxi - a legitimate, valuable mmo content. this is not navigating or exploring the world. its time sinks that are there for the sake of taking up more time. nothing more nothing less.
    I never said it was content, you're putting words in my mouth. And you're wrong, it is navigating the world. As I said before there's plenty of lobby games where you can sit in a chat channel until your group is ready, have a loading screen, and be right there. Sounds to me those are more up your alley. It's a shame that as an mmo-rpg becomes more mainstream it attracts players that actually hate the world.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Lei View Post
    There's that WQ in ardenweald where you have to pick up temporary faerie wings and get the moth pupas from the trees. When I did it first, I was like "oh, ok, this is cool!" (you could actually fly out from the subzone and fly everywhere in ardenweald, it was on you for a minute or 2 I think, was fixed in days). But then how many times I have to complete these before I can say "gimme my flying back!". (And then of course you can't even complete that wq on a flying mount because you have to pick stuff and we have no Blacksmithing stirrups in Shadowlands so in itself is the perfect "immune to flight WQ)
    Land on the branch and it'll still be in reach. I've tested that. Or be a druid. Not sure what Sircowdog is getting at about the world building. Does he want places like Skettis we can't get to till we can fly?
    The most difficult thing for people to do is objectively look at something they don't like and be able to accept that it is not bad, that other people like it, and if it was changed to the way they'd like it that other people would not like it and want it changed back. The second most is to receive something they didn't want or ask for and be grateful for it, not immediately demand what they wanted instead.

  20. #360
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilfire View Post
    Once again flying will only be unlocked for already outdated content while being unavailable in the Maw and Korthia. This is Argus all over again. Next expansion MUST have flying in from the START and it must be usable EVERYWHERE.
    Bussiness as usual. Its a miracle that soon all will be allowed to mount in maw, Flying in maw wouldnt fit the theme of the zone.

    But yes i would prefer a system like in mop for the next xpac. You have to level your first char on ground, then u can buy a book für flying for your mainchar. And you can buy that für every toon aswell. make those books expensive, but give the people the choice if they wanna wait for pathfinder or invest some high amounts of gold for flying.

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