Page 25 of 33 FirstFirst ...
15
23
24
25
26
27
... LastLast
  1. #481
    Quote Originally Posted by Jamais View Post
    You mean, after you've taken your time to study the map it became easier to navigate?

    Srsly, all of SL zones are easily navigated after you get accustomed to it. The only ''densly'' populated zones are the elite ones. It takes me less then half an hour to do 5-6 wq in each zone.

    The qquers about no flying here should stop kidding themselves - you want convenience, and nothing else. Nothing in a zone will ever be ''interesting'' enough in your eyes, you are just making excuses. Learn the layout, use gliders, learn to strafe.

    And stop with the entitled argument ''let me play how i want'', nothing works like that.
    Your post is rather ironic.

  2. #482
    Quote Originally Posted by Jamais View Post
    You mean, after you've taken your time to study the map it became easier to navigate?
    Studying the map didn't help, I was just exceedingly dense and had a blindspot for what that symbol on the map meant. Even when someone pointed it out to me I couldn't find them myself and had to have them circled on the map in this thread. Before that I was just blundering my way around trying to use my memory which worked to a point but I got a little confused because I didn't realise there were so many.

  3. #483
    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    Making your way around the map isn't an extra part of the game, it's baked into the questing experience. It's been part of levelling in every expansion bar Cataclysm. If you just want to kill stuff for an objective you need scenarios to come back, or to play Torghast more.
    And if flight eas available as soon as you dinged to the level cap, thus wouldn't even be an argument.

    But that's not what happens, is it? As usual you're misrepresenting the issue to downplay the actual issue to your advantage.

  4. #484
    I just don't get why this thread has carried on so long. We're getting flight in 9.1 with no pathfinder. Yay for us.
    “Common sense is not so common.” ~ Voltaire

  5. #485
    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    People really need to stop posting stuff like this because it shows the person saying it have no idea how MAU's work. MAU's do not care how much you log in during the month. They only cared that you logged in at all.

    So if people are obliged to unlock flying, they need to log in right? I don't see what you are trying to say here. That's the point of gated flying. To make the MAU numbers more spread out through out a longer period.
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    Biden is a creepy old dude, I will not be voting for the guy.
    ^ This is from a self-proclaimed Trump-hater who goes round vote-policing, berating and insulting other users for expressing their doubts and reservations about Joe Biden. He also urges others to end relationships and friendships just to "vote Trump out". https://ibb.co/2jRnZGC He can't seem to walk the talk himself.

  6. #486
    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    Making your way around the map isn't an extra part of the game, it's baked into the questing experience. It's been part of levelling in every expansion bar Cataclysm. If you just want to kill stuff for an objective you need scenarios to come back, or to play Torghast more.
    Don't you think, that implicit goals - is bad design? It's as bad, as extra hidden objective in WQs.

    Just because Blizzard can overinflate hidden difficulty of some objectives by very large value. And at the end it boils down to just two things: extra time and extra difficulty. That's why I constantly ask that question. Do we really need all that extra time consumption and extra difficulty? For example: 8.3 content was designed with flying in mind. And that meant artificially slowing players down even more to compensate flying. Like having treasures/rares with random spawns or having exceeding competition for mobs. Why our gaming session should last for some specific standard amount of time, so Blizzard have to stretch it, if it's too quick? Overall it, again, boils down to core problem of this game - lack of real content, trying to make as few content, as possible, while stretching it as much, as possible, and players, being unable to find things to do by themselves, so they only play "with gun barrel at back of their heads". Blizzard should solve that problems, instead of bandaiding them via crutches, like removal of flying and even ground mounts. Not all players can bear such artificial content stretching. I can't. Because I remember WOD, where design of content was almost perfect, i.e. had 0 content stretching. And after WOD I just can't play any artificially stretched content in a long term. Only in short term. To farm Pathfinder for example.

  7. #487
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    No, it couldn't, because they already said it's tied to the campaign, not the Renown directly.

    And 1-40 is only 16 weeks, with the campaign ending at the half-way point.
    You mean the campaign that was linked to renown levels? We have already done it ages ago so i guess them mean the next campaign? We will have to wait for more info but given this expansion drip feeds you pretty much everything in the game i am not optimistic that we will be flying quickly.

  8. #488
    Quote Originally Posted by WowIsDead64 View Post
    <snip>
    You realise the lack of "articially stretched" content in WoD was the biggest reason it was criticised, right? Until Tanaan (which was massively "artificially stretched" for the reasons you mention) people hated the fact there was very little to do and no reason to do it (and this was without flight remember.)

    This is what people want from MMOs, a reason to log in for X time a day over a period of Y days or months. There may be differences of opinions as to what the values of X and Y should be, or how they should be achieved, but if you don't want "artificially stretched" content you need to look for single-player RPG where all the content is once-and-done.

  9. #489
    The Insane Ielenia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Brazil
    Posts
    16,081
    Quote Originally Posted by Razion View Post
    I don't think combat and travel trivialization are the same. But I don't think you do either.
    They're not the same, but they're certainly related, as both are removing the danger within the area. You don't have to worry about dying to raid bosses, just like you wouldn't have to worry about land units when you're flying.

    I think it's especially a bit hypocritical when they also throw around those really fast ground on-use items like the fast yaks and what-not that barrel around at 400+/whatever %. Those also skip a lot of travel time and get you past a lot of grounded combat quickly, so why is flying so special when these are allowed so frequently for so many expansions - I mean hell they've been around since Mists in every expansion at this point.
    The difference is, as far as I know, those "fast mounts" are limited in many ways. Some you cannot control it (cannot stop moving), are one-use only, have long cooldowns, or can only be used in a certain zone(s). Or any combination of the four.

    And if they want us on the ground so much why isn't ground speed just increased to these levels so travel isn't so arduous and whatever holy ground experience has to be maintained can still be there?
    Because making the ground mount speed faster also trivializes ground content (albeit not as much as flying) because you'd be blazing at such speeds that mobs won't be able to hit you once (and therefore there is no risk of being dazed).
    I did a Necromancer thing. Check it out! All feedback welcome!
    I also did a Bard thing! Questions, comments and ideas, all welcome!

  10. #490
    Quote Originally Posted by Mechagnome View Post
    I just don't get why this thread has carried on so long. We're getting flight in 9.1 with no pathfinder. Yay for us.
    For the same reason every flying thread on this forum reaches 9,000 pages: There exist a portion of the playerbase who do not like the compromise Pathfinder provides and will argue against anybody who dares infer that Blizzard is doing anything less than intentionally trolling everybody by gating the ability to fly in an expansion behind a time gated achievement. After all, when God created the Universe, shortly after he stated "let there be light" he mentioned something about flying in video games.

  11. #491
    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    You realise the lack of "articially stretched" content in WoD was the biggest reason it was criticised, right? Until Tanaan (which was massively "artificially stretched" for the reasons you mention) people hated the fact there was very little to do and no reason to do it (and this was without flight remember.)

    This is what people want from MMOs, a reason to log in for X time a day over a period of Y days or months. There may be differences of opinions as to what the values of X and Y should be, or how they should be achieved, but if you don't want "artificially stretched" content you need to look for single-player RPG where all the content is once-and-done.
    WOD was bad due to other reasons. It didn't deliver, what it promised. If it would - it would be completely different xpack. For example 6.0 lacked any content outside of Garrisons. Yeah, Garrisons were good by themselves, but definitely not enough. 6.2 fixed all it's problems, but it was too late. If WOD would be 6.2 on release + at least another 2 major content patches, it would be the best xpack ever made. And if you think, that "WOD with all problems fixed" is Legion, then you're wrong. Legion had many fun things. That's, why it was popular. But it was xpack, when all problems actually started. BFA was xpack with Legion's cons, but without Legion's pros. And SL is just BFA 2.0, because none of problems actually fully fixed and 9.1 is just step back towards wrong direction.

    Funny thing, but patch 6.2 - is one of the most played patches for me. After WotLK, end of Cata and end of Legion. Blizzard should think, why it happened. May be if they'd get it, it would allow them to double their subs.

  12. #492
    Quote Originally Posted by Seranthor View Post
    Thank the 'No flying' crowd. I cant imagine Blizzard ever going back to Flying in from the start. Why you thought this was ever going to be the case is one of the mysteries of the universe. Blizzard didn't trick you, you did that to yourself.
    What I don't get is why they keep listening to this rabid vocal minority that screech about everything. I bet those people are the reason the game is as bad as it has been the last few years ever since they decided to make it more like Diablo.

  13. #493
    Quote Originally Posted by lockybalboa View Post
    So if people are obliged to unlock flying, they need to log in right? I don't see what you are trying to say here. That's the point of gated flying. To make the MAU numbers more spread out through out a longer period.
    I am saying that you are counted as an MAU whether you log on once a month or every day. So, gating flying has no real effect on it thus not a reason they are gating flying.

  14. #494
    Quote Originally Posted by Nobleshield View Post
    What I don't get is why they keep listening to this rabid vocal minority that screech about everything. I bet those people are the reason the game is as bad as it has been the last few years ever since they decided to make it more like Diablo.
    Well, without it you wouldn't even have Pathfinder, just no flying whatsoever like the original plan in WoD. Or did you really think the anti-flying group is the only rabid vocal minority?

    Blizzard decided they didn't want flying because of how it impacted their developement process, that was never about the community.

  15. #495
    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    For the same reason every flying thread on this forum reaches 9,000 pages: There exist a portion of the playerbase who do not like the compromise Pathfinder provides and will argue against anybody who dares infer that Blizzard is doing anything less than intentionally trolling everybody by gating the ability to fly in an expansion behind a time gated achievement. After all, when God created the Universe, shortly after he stated "let there be light" he mentioned something about flying in video games.
    Just looks like every other "flying" thread minus the mentions of Pathfinder. 3 people love flying, 3 hate it, and one is always indifferent. I am amazed by the circular arguments between 7 major posters that carries a thread to hundreds of pages. We're finally getting flight without a Pathfinder. It is already FAR better than we got in WoD, Legion, or BfA.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nobleshield View Post
    What I don't get is why they keep listening to this rabid vocal minority that screech about everything. I bet those people are the reason the game is as bad as it has been the last few years ever since they decided to make it more like Diablo.
    The game has changed because the world has changed. Game apps on mobile phones saw to it that gaming could be handheld and happen in minutes rather than hours. Conole games followed suit. It was only a matter of time before WoW had to bite the bullet and find a way to time gate while keeping things in short, random bursts rather than the long, drawn out adventure we all remember up through Wrath. The only people you can absolutely blame for this shift are iPhone users who purchase mini-games for their phone as far back as 2004. This was the inception of the instant gratification era for the low price of $1.99 a pop. I am kinda surprised WoW has not been more cash shop heavy the way SWTOR is.
    “Common sense is not so common.” ~ Voltaire

  16. #496
    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    For the same reason every flying thread on this forum reaches 9,000 pages: There exist a portion of the playerbase who do not like the compromise Pathfinder provides and will argue against anybody who dares infer that Blizzard is doing anything less than intentionally trolling everybody by gating the ability to fly in an expansion behind a time gated achievement. After all, when God created the Universe, shortly after he stated "let there be light" he mentioned something about flying in video games.
    Probably because Pathfinder isn't actually a compromise. We've been over this "9000 pages" already, but a similar portion of the playerbase feels like they have to defend Blizzard by throwing salt in people's faces every time the topic comes up. I mean, look, you literally just did it in your own post.

    The fundamental issue is that flying used to be something that was gained early in the expansion, and then was mixed in with later areas of non-flying. Blizzard changed that formula to only allowing flight when it's basically pointless to have it. That hasn't changed at all since WoD. Pathfinder isn't actually doing anything for the people who want flight in the game, and it's pretty sad that even after these years some people STILL can't understand that.

    Just because flying is in the game doesn't mean it's PART of the game. Until people get that through their head, especially Blizzard, there will always be complaints about it.

  17. #497
    The Insane Glorious Leader's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    In my bunker leading uprisings
    Posts
    17,891
    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    For the same reason every flying thread on this forum reaches 9,000 pages: There exist a portion of the playerbase who do not like the compromise Pathfinder provides and will argue against anybody who dares infer that Blizzard is doing anything less than intentionally trolling everybody by gating the ability to fly in an expansion behind a time gated achievement. After all, when God created the Universe, shortly after he stated "let there be light" he mentioned something about flying in video games.
    Because its a non compromise. Pathfinder and the timing of Pathfinders release every expansion serves to make obtaining flying so gated and useless that they may as well have removed it.

    I'd also add that its odd to think that players in any way should have to "compromise" with developers. They make a product to be sold. The very idea that consumers are in position wherein evidently the concerns and desires of the developers are at odds with what consumers are asking for is fucking stupid.
    Last edited by Glorious Leader; 2021-02-28 at 06:44 PM.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  18. #498
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    I'd also add that its odd to think that players in any way should have to "compromise" with developers. They make a product to be sold. The very idea that consumers are in position wherein evidently the concerns and desires of the developers are at odds with what consumers are asking for is fucking stupid.
    No, it isn't. What is sensible or reasonable to develop and what the players want often is at odds, and the players generally ask for far more than is feasible to do within the available budget(which isn't just money, but also time, available devs etc.). There's also frequently conflicts between what players want and what is actually good for the game. And when trying to make money, giving a customer exactly what they're asking for isn't necessarily the best option for either side.

    Compromise is necessary and unavoidable, even when the devs agree with the players in theory.

  19. #499
    The Insane Glorious Leader's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    In my bunker leading uprisings
    Posts
    17,891
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    No, it isn't. What is sensible or reasonable to develop and what the players want often is at odds, and the players generally ask for far more than is feasible to do within the available budget(which isn't just money, but also time, available devs etc.). There's also frequently conflicts between what players want and what is actually good for the game. And when trying to make money, giving a customer exactly what they're asking for isn't necessarily the best option for either side.

    Compromise is necessary and unavoidable, even when the devs agree with the players in theory.
    Actually in reality their is no compromise. This isn't a negotiation by any means because consumers in what are relatively free markets are by under no means required to subscribe to this game. The developers are unfortunately beholden to subscribers at large or at least theoretically they should be. When people leave the game in masses and revenue declines you'd expect that unpopular decisions would be reversed or at least new direction would be taken. Actually in any other job by now people would have been fired or at least given new positions.

    This developers knows best attitude is extremely patronizing and I expect from hazikostas et al but its bizarre from the player base. I know what I find fun and I think I have a pretty good idea of what makes the game fun for my friends as well (although I wouldn't necessarily presume to speak for them). Hazikostas et al doesn't even have a clue. If you want to say that they would know better to balance something like say warrior dps relative to everybody else based on data they have. Okay ill grant that maybe (although even then that remains an issue) but that is probably quantitative measure and not a qualitative measure. Hazikostas may have the data to balance classes he doesn't have the data to tell me Pathfinder is great.

    What is actually good for the game is nebulous at best but is also evidently not in line with what will actually retain players. Somehow cost cutting is now the means by which the game will generate revenue as opposed to maintaining or growing a subscriber base. Maybe they have data that suggests they just can't keep people anymore so why bother. What an awful environment that must be to work in.
    Last edited by Glorious Leader; 2021-02-28 at 07:14 PM.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  20. #500
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    Hazikostas may have the data to balance classes he doesn't have the data to tell me Pathfinder is great.
    Well, he has data, that shows him, how much time players spend in game with and without flying. He sees, that players are more "active", when there is no flying and calls this design "successful". And he doesn't care, how players actually feel about it. This is the same reason, why it's "revenue", that is considered to be measure of success - not sub numbers.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •