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  1. #501
    Quote Originally Posted by chaoticcrono View Post
    Did you ever consider that people skip the ground cuz they dont find it fun?

    Seriously just let people fly and those of you who want to walk everywhere can still do that without taking flying away from everyone else.
    With that argument why move in any way anywhere? Just make portals/abilities/to everything. Or better yet. Make everything instanced. Every quest everything. Just stay in the main city and instaqueue for quests.
    There will never be a game where everyone likes everything. Seriously. It is an open world game. Devaluing the open world makes the whole world completly useless when you can skip it immediatly

  2. #502
    Immortal Raugnaut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arafal View Post
    Which is an issue with the gameplay in the Maw, not the lack flying.
    Maw would be halfway sweet if it had flying. Removal of the Eye mechanic would make it an actual good zone imo.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moounter View Post
    I think your problem is a lack of intellect.

  3. #503
    Quote Originally Posted by VinceVega View Post
    Devaluing the open world makes the whole world completly useless
    To many players, removing flight IS devaluing the open world.

    Quote Originally Posted by VinceVega View Post
    when you can skip it immediatly
    Skipping something that you would not have played anyway is not devaluing. The content already had no value to begin with.

    This is a pretty common flaw with the logic I see a lot of people using in regards to the open world. They think that just because the devs put something in the game, that it automatically has intrinsic value and MUST be played. It's also the logic that the devs seem to be using as well.

    Reality check: Nobody gives a sh*t about another "Kill X" quest. Nobody wants to have their time wasted by slogging through 100 meaningles, lootless trash mobs to click a shiny on the ground that only completes a quest for a couple of gold, a crappy green loot item, or a pointless crafting mat for a pointless crafting system.

    The reason why people want to skip content is because the content is garbage. That has NOTHING to do with the method that players use to skip it.

  4. #504
    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    To many players, removing flight IS devaluing the open world.



    Skipping something that you would not have played anyway is not devaluing. The content already had no value to begin with.

    This is a pretty common flaw with the logic I see a lot of people using in regards to the open world. They think that just because the devs put something in the game, that it automatically has intrinsic value and MUST be played. It's also the logic that the devs seem to be using as well.

    Reality check: Nobody gives a sh*t about another "Kill X" quest. Nobody wants to have their time wasted by slogging through 100 meaningles, lootless trash mobs to click a shiny on the ground that only completes a quest for a couple of gold, a crappy green loot item, or a pointless crafting mat for a pointless crafting system.

    The reason why people want to skip content is because the content is garbage. That has NOTHING to do with the method that players use to skip it.
    Irony much? "nobody" is a strong world and exactly what i ment in my first post.

    The content has value when people like it. The start of the expansion is my favourite time. Seeing players meeting people in the open world. All of that is gone the second flying is available. And yes i too like flying and at a certain point is should always be introduced.

    With your and every other explanation you could just kick the open world to the curb int he first place. Because there is no use for it and traveling 2 minutes longer is such a inconviniece for you.

    Long story short: MANY people like it that way and blizzard likes it even too. It will never change unless they make a expansion with flying islands and stuff. Which people will hate for antoher wierd reason like "flying takes too long give me instaport"!!!!!!

    If you do not like quests AND open world... i am sorry but maybe play something like diàblo or path of exile?

  5. #505
    The Insane Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    To many players, removing flight IS devaluing the open world.



    Skipping something that you would not have played anyway is not devaluing. The content already had no value to begin with.

    This is a pretty common flaw with the logic I see a lot of people using in regards to the open world. They think that just because the devs put something in the game, that it automatically has intrinsic value and MUST be played. It's also the logic that the devs seem to be using as well.

    Reality check: Nobody gives a sh*t about another "Kill X" quest. Nobody wants to have their time wasted by slogging through 100 meaningles, lootless trash mobs to click a shiny on the ground that only completes a quest for a couple of gold, a crappy green loot item, or a pointless crafting mat for a pointless crafting system.

    The reason why people want to skip content is because the content is garbage. That has NOTHING to do with the method that players use to skip it.
    If their logic really worked like they thought it would then the Maw would be the best designed zone ever. The maw is awful zone and the fact that you can only at most ground mount doesn't improve the quality of that experience. You know what might though...
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  6. #506
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    If their logic really worked like they thought it would then the Maw would be the best designed zone ever. The maw is awful zone and the fact that you can only at most ground mount doesn't improve the quality of that experience. You know what might though...
    You know what i think is a really good example? Ravendreth. That zone looks amazing, but I find it annoying, and frustrating. I don't find it immersive and fun, i find it annoying and frustrating. First time through, while leveling, it wasnt too bad. Subsequent experiences on both my main and alts has been "avoid it at all costs".

  7. #507
    Quote Originally Posted by WowIsDead64 View Post
    WOD was bad due to other reasons. It didn't deliver, what it promised. If it would - it would be completely different xpack. For example 6.0 lacked any content outside of Garrisons. Yeah, Garrisons were good by themselves, but definitely not enough. 6.2 fixed all it's problems, but it was too late. If WOD would be 6.2 on release + at least another 2 major content patches, it would be the best xpack ever made. And if you think, that "WOD with all problems fixed" is Legion, then you're wrong. Legion had many fun things. That's, why it was popular. But it was xpack, when all problems actually started. BFA was xpack with Legion's cons, but without Legion's pros. And SL is just BFA 2.0, because none of problems actually fully fixed and 9.1 is just step back towards wrong direction.

    Funny thing, but patch 6.2 - is one of the most played patches for me. After WotLK, end of Cata and end of Legion. Blizzard should think, why it happened. May be if they'd get it, it would allow them to double their subs.
    WoD had content, there were about a dozen Apexis zones put in purely for end-game content and they had corresponding invasion, but they weren't "artificially stretched" by a decent reward system so there was no point in playing them. If they'd put incentives similar to the daily quests and gear grind in 6.2 it could have been the best open world end-game content ever, certainly I enjoyed actually doing the content more than the World Quests + Emissary/Covenant thing we've had in the following few expansions.

    As for why you have 6.2 as your most played, I really have no idea. It had an extended period of no flying (beyond just getting the achievement there was a hard lock until a sub-patch,) there was huge competition for mobs and things to click, you had to go hunting for rares/treasures that may not be spawned, a group of daily quests enforced their pacing as to how long you should play each day and it was all "artificially stretched" by a grind to get loot and then upgrade it. I know why I enjoyed it so much because that's the kind of stuff I'm into but from your earlier posts it should be the absolute devil for you.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Mechagnome View Post
    The game has changed because the world has changed. Game apps on mobile phones saw to it that gaming could be handheld and happen in minutes rather than hours. Conole games followed suit. It was only a matter of time before WoW had to bite the bullet and find a way to time gate while keeping things in short, random bursts rather than the long, drawn out adventure we all remember up through Wrath. The only people you can absolutely blame for this shift are iPhone users who purchase mini-games for their phone as far back as 2004. This was the inception of the instant gratification era for the low price of $1.99 a pop. I am kinda surprised WoW has not been more cash shop heavy the way SWTOR is.
    It probably all started with Isle of Quel'danas in TBC which was the first real bit of content where you'd turn up and within an hour or so be done for the day and have to come back again tomorrow. Then we had Wrath's easy-mode heroics which were designed to be completed during your lunch break (although probably based on the mid/late-TBC playstyle of having Pallies AoE tank for a few mages and/or 'locks to burn through heroics rapidly for the Justice Badgers.) I don't those systems were really influenced by mobile-gaming though they probably took something from multiplayer titles like LoL, though that was really a follow-up to DotA, a Warcraft mod, so the short-term gameplay of WoW was probably inspired by earlier Battle.net titles and other early internet PC gaming.

    In fact I think it's more likely that WoW (and other MMO mechanics) were influential on mobile games, though while MMOs had lockouts to keep people subbed for extended periods mobile titles decided to let you pay to get around the lockout.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by VinceVega View Post
    With that argument why move in any way anywhere? Just make portals/abilities/to everything. Or better yet. Make everything instanced. Every quest everything. Just stay in the main city and instaqueue for quests.
    There will never be a game where everyone likes everything. Seriously. It is an open world game. Devaluing the open world makes the whole world completly useless when you can skip it immediatly
    I'd still fight tooth-and-nail to keep actual flight paths instead of the insta-ports a lot of games opt for. Occasional teleports are fine if they come in the form of a choice (do I use this now or save it for later, is this teleport to this place quicker/better than the taxi to another place) but one of the big wow-factors of WoW when Vanilla came out was the fact you had a big, open MMO world and you could fly from top to bottom, east to west of the major continents at least. I'm always disappointed if a game offers fast travel that doesn't actually move you through the world and just drops you somewhere after a loading screen.

  8. #508
    Quote Originally Posted by VinceVega View Post
    Irony much? "nobody" is a strong world and exactly what i ment in my first post.
    Are you really going to sit here with a straight face and tell me you PREFER another generic "Kill X" quest to something with more meaning, or even relevance to the existing story? Something that actually qualifies as an "adventure" instead of another mindless chore that has zero connection, context, or meaning to the world?

    Come off it.



    Quote Originally Posted by VinceVega View Post
    Seeing players meeting people in the open world. All of that is gone the second flying is available.
    No. Again, you're blaming flight for a fault that is created by the content.

    People congregate and meet and mingle in areas of INTEREST. If you see people flying past something it's because they don't give a shit about that part of the content.

    Do you remember Legion invasions before that expansion launched? Crowds of people gathering and working together to fight the event....USING THEIR FLYING MOUNTS!

    Do you understand? It's not the mode of travel. It's the CONTENT that gets people to meet up and interact in the manner than you enjoy. The second that blizzard stops using 99% filler garbage, you'll start seeing people meet up and work together again.


    Quote Originally Posted by VinceVega View Post
    With your and every other explanation you could just kick the open world to the curb in the first place. Because there is no use for it and traveling 2 minutes longer is such a inconvenience for you.
    No..stop. Again, you're trying to create a problem where there isn't one.

    I don't hate travel. I hate being forced to travel through mazelike areas filled with meaningless trash mobs who's only reason for even existing is to daze me and slow me down. That doesn't add anything to the story or the enjoyment, because I'm not even there to fight those trash mobs between me and my objective. The trash mobs don't even do anything for me. They don't give experience. They don't drop meaninful loot. They're not worth re. They almost never drop crafting mats. And they barely even drop gold.

    So what is the point of interacting with that kind of "content"? Why should we value that over something that we actually want to do?

    Are you starting to understand here? Filler garbage is not good content. There is no value in FORCING players to deal with it time after time after time when there's no purpose it in besides padding time /played and creating artificial "engagement" times.


    Quote Originally Posted by VinceVega View Post
    Long story short: MANY people like it that way and blizzard likes it even too. It will never change unless they make a expansion with flying islands and stuff. Which people will hate for another weird reason like "flying takes too long give me antiport"!!!!!!
    Stop focusing on the mode of travel and you'll see why the problem isn't with flying, but with the nature of the content. If people are asking for instant-ports, it's because they want to get to the parts of the game that are fun.

    Because if we take the opposite exreme to the example you're using, then ALL modes of travel other than grounded walking should be removed in favor of getting people to engage with all this super-duper-extra good content that people are passing with flight paths, portals, and summons. But you don't see anyone campaigning to remove those do you?

    Quote Originally Posted by VinceVega View Post
    If you do not like quests AND open world... i am sorry but maybe play something like diàblo or path of exile?
    You're still trying to create things to argue against that I never said. It's not that I don't like quests or open world. It's that I don't like pointless chores and shallow, meaningless, no-context, story-less filler quests, and open world filled with dazing trash mobs that don't serve any other purpose.
    Last edited by SirCowdog; 2021-03-01 at 12:15 AM.

  9. #509
    I always go full ape when flying is unlocked for alts. Level all of my 10 other previously Max capped toons. Just so nice to have 11 alts to farm certain WQs, gets a lot done.

  10. #510
    Quote Originally Posted by Seranthor View Post
    Thank the 'No flying' crowd. I cant imagine Blizzard ever going back to Flying in from the start. Why you thought this was ever going to be the case is one of the mysteries of the universe. Blizzard didn't trick you, you did that to yourself.
    It has nothing to do with the "No Flying" crowd. Its to cut costs at Blizzard and keep you playing longer. More time and effort went into the Wrath and Burning Crusade zones than previous zones with certain areas of Netherstorm, Icecrown, etc being designed with flying in mind. This means they have to make sure to add extra programming, and effort to geographically lock off those locations that need flying and make sure it looks good. They skipped doing this in Cataclysm and allowed you flying in those zones because flying in the old world was a feature, but it had the detrimental effect of severely reducing the time it took to get to lvl 85. In Mists they simply locked it off til you hit lvl 90 but it was account wide so alts sped through the content as well and well, they flipped the dial in the complete other direction and said NO FLYING ALL EXPANSION!

    Flying is a time saver and it allows players to play through content quickly and be able to play other games. This does not look good for activisions share holders so they design systems in place to keep you playing the game longer and longer. Reduced loot, you need to do 1 - 10 mythic + dungeons to unlock all 3 slots, Get 6500 honor in Arena / RBGs, kill all 10 Nathria bosses - The Great Vault is another way to keep you playing the game longer to compensate for that lack of loot dropping. I have grown cynical over the last 16 years of playing this game and I realize other games do all these things better and still keep millions of players playing.

    Honestly if my friends did not play WoW I'd probably hang up my warglaives and retire.

  11. #511
    Quote Originally Posted by Stabbyfists View Post
    It has nothing to do with the "No Flying" crowd. Its to cut costs at Blizzard and keep you playing longer. More time and effort went into the Wrath and Burning Crusade zones than previous zones with certain areas of Netherstorm, Icecrown, etc being designed with flying in mind. This means they have to make sure to add extra programming, and effort to geographically lock off those locations that need flying and make sure it looks good. They skipped doing this in Cataclysm and allowed you flying in those zones because flying in the old world was a feature, but it had the detrimental effect of severely reducing the time it took to get to lvl 85. In Mists they simply locked it off til you hit lvl 90 but it was account wide so alts sped through the content as well and well, they flipped the dial in the complete other direction and said NO FLYING ALL EXPANSION!
    I'd argue that the costs of zones post-Wrath or post-Cata cost more to produce simply because they're done in higher fidelity and that's regardless of flight. Also I'd hardly think "don't make a path to this zone" constitutes a great design feat, or putting things on a floating space fortress too high to jump to.

    Flying is a time saver and it allows players to play through content quickly and be able to play other games. This does not look good for activisions share holders so they design systems in place to keep you playing the game longer and longer. Reduced loot, you need to do 1 - 10 mythic + dungeons to unlock all 3 slots, Get 6500 honor in Arena / RBGs, kill all 10 Nathria bosses - The Great Vault is another way to keep you playing the game longer to compensate for that lack of loot dropping. I have grown cynical over the last 16 years of playing this game and I realize other games do all these things better and still keep millions of players playing.

    Honestly if my friends did not play WoW I'd probably hang up my warglaives and retire.
    This kind of thing has been going on since Vanilla, it's why raids drop RNG loot and have lockouts. It's because MMO players want a reason to keep coming back, but individuals complain if the particular grind they're interested in takes too long. Look at MoP where the daily quest grind was largely considered to be too much even though you could fly to complete it, but then WoD was considered to have not enough content even though you had to tackle it from the ground. WoW has always strived to have the right balance of making people stay interested in repetitive content without making it too arduous a process or too quick to complete. That was true when they only had to care about Vivendi SA, when Vivendi bought out Activision and when Activision-Blizzard broke away to become "independent" of their parent.

  12. #512
    Quote Originally Posted by VinceVega View Post
    With that argument why move in any way anywhere? Just make portals/abilities/to everything. Or better yet. Make everything instanced. Every quest everything. Just stay in the main city and instaqueue for quests.
    There will never be a game where everyone likes everything. Seriously. It is an open world game. Devaluing the open world makes the whole world completly useless when you can skip it immediatly
    flying doesnt skip it though... it just makes travel time shorter and makes it so you dont get annoyed by mobs you would just run past anyways...

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by VinceVega View Post
    Irony much? "nobody" is a strong world and exactly what i ment in my first post.

    The content has value when people like it. The start of the expansion is my favourite time. Seeing players meeting people in the open world. All of that is gone the second flying is available. And yes i too like flying and at a certain point is should always be introduced.

    With your and every other explanation you could just kick the open world to the curb int he first place. Because there is no use for it and traveling 2 minutes longer is such a inconviniece for you.

    Long story short: MANY people like it that way and blizzard likes it even too. It will never change unless they make a expansion with flying islands and stuff. Which people will hate for antoher wierd reason like "flying takes too long give me instaport"!!!!!!

    If you do not like quests AND open world... i am sorry but maybe play something like diàblo or path of exile?
    flying doesnt stop people from interacting in the world... i interacted with plenty in bc when flying was introduced...

    The issue is that there are a ton of anti social people who apparently cant make friends to play with and not only want to impose their playstyle on other but also want to force others to interact with them....

    With that mentality I can see why players would avoid you...

  13. #513
    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    Also I'd hardly think "don't make a path to this zone" constitutes a great design feat, or putting things on a floating space fortress too high to jump to.
    And yet decades of Metroidvania games have successfully used the game mechanic of "you can't reach this spot until you gain X ability".

    That's honestly how Blizzard should be using flight. Not as a sauce that gets dumped on everything. Not as a "skip all content after it doesn't matter". Make parts of the game have portals that you unlock. Other parts have flying be used as a tool. Throw in those grapple gun areas from stormheim, or something else. Some areas should be indoors. Others should have gliding, or flying.

    There is NOTHING wrong with mixing things up.

    Again, what it all comes back to is that blizzard has a very shallow formula that they can't seem to be bothered to innovate on. Grounded zones filled with nonsensical maze-like terrain, and packed so full of dazing trash mobs that you can't move more than a foot before aggroing anything.

    Fine. That works sometimes. But not ALL the time. Variety is what's needed here. Not formulaic, engagement-padding bullshit 24/7 365.

    It's just sad that Blizzard is so god damned afraid of deviating from the formula, and that so many players have bought into the idea that nothing else is even possible.

  14. #514
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilfire View Post
    Once again flying will only be unlocked for already outdated content while being unavailable in the Maw and Korthia. This is Argus all over again. Next expansion MUST have flying in from the START and it must be usable EVERYWHERE.
    Um, this is how it always is my man. Current content is always locked from flying since I'd say MoP. You had to unlock it later on. Or it was never available period. Look at Argus (never available) or Broken Shore (needed rep) then BFA gave Nazjatar (unlocked later) and then Nzoth actually implemented into old content (a rare time flying allowed). Go back to WoD, you had Tanaan (needed rep), MoP had Isle of Thunder and Timeless Isle (both were never available) ...

    My point is, it's gone on for every expansion for quite some time. This is NOTHING NEW, and you aren't getting "tricked" ..it's just how it's always been.

    CURRENT CONTENT DOES NOT ALLOW FLYING, it's the middle ground compromise for the no flying and flying crowd. Always been that way, and it's worked just fine.
    Last edited by meroko; 2021-03-01 at 01:43 AM.

  15. #515
    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    And yet decades of Metroidvania games have successfully used the game mechanic of "you can't reach this spot until you gain X ability".

    That's honestly how Blizzard should be using flight. Not as a sauce that gets dumped on everything. Not as a "skip all content after it doesn't matter". Make parts of the game have portals that you unlock. Other parts have flying be used as a tool. Throw in those grapple gun areas from stormheim, or something else. Some areas should be indoors. Others should have gliding, or flying.

    There is NOTHING wrong with mixing things up.

    Again, what it all comes back to is that blizzard has a very shallow formula that they can't seem to be bothered to innovate on. Grounded zones filled with nonsensical maze-like terrain, and packed so full of dazing trash mobs that you can't move more than a foot before aggroing anything.

    Fine. That works sometimes. But not ALL the time. Variety is what's needed here. Not formulaic, engagement-padding bullshit 24/7 365.

    It's just sad that Blizzard is so god damned afraid of deviating from the formula, and that so many players have bought into the idea that nothing else is even possible.
    thats a good idea. I'd like to see more stuff like that. Too bad the game is just a cash cow being milked and fun isnt allowed =\

  16. #516
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    Actually in reality their is no compromise.
    What you need to do, what you can do, what you should do and what would be a good idea don't always overlap, and they're never completely identical. Any course of action is by necessity a compromise.
    This is magnified by the fact that they have to deal with a heterogenous playerbase that has vastly different preferences and interests. They have to compromise between the various groups, as often there are mutually exclusive demands.

    Game design, and business in general, is always made of compromises because you have no other option.

    Also, a negotiation doesn't have to consist of people sitting around a table. What you describe is also a form of negotiation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    This developers knows best attitude is extremely patronizing and I expect from hazikostas et al but its bizarre from the player base.
    It is also irrelevant to my post. What is relevant, however, is that the devs are beholden to a different set of needs and limitations than you as a player. Most players only care about a small part of the game. The devs have to consider how every change impacts the entire game, not just the parts that you like.

    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    What is actually good for the game is nebulous at best but is also evidently not in line with what will actually retain players. Somehow cost cutting is now the means by which the game will generate revenue as opposed to maintaining or growing a subscriber base. Maybe they have data that suggests they just can't keep people anymore so why bother. What an awful environment that must be to work in.
    Given that they massively increased the number of devs working on WoW in the last decade, cost cutting is flat-out lying about what they're doing. Personnel cost is usually one of the biggest money drains of a company, and devs are quite a bit more expensive than some lowly Customer Support workers.

  17. #517
    Quote Originally Posted by Lei View Post
    You can fly in wintergrasp. just not when the battle is on.
    Added in 3.2:
    Flying over Dalaran and Wintergrasp is now possible so long as players keep a healthy distance above the ground.

    WotLK launched with WG being 100% no fly all the time.

  18. #518
    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    WoD had content, there were about a dozen Apexis zones put in purely for end-game content and they had corresponding invasion, but they weren't "artificially stretched" by a decent reward system so there was no point in playing them. If they'd put incentives similar to the daily quests and gear grind in 6.2 it could have been the best open world end-game content ever, certainly I enjoyed actually doing the content more than the World Quests + Emissary/Covenant thing we've had in the following few expansions.

    As for why you have 6.2 as your most played, I really have no idea. It had an extended period of no flying (beyond just getting the achievement there was a hard lock until a sub-patch,) there was huge competition for mobs and things to click, you had to go hunting for rares/treasures that may not be spawned, a group of daily quests enforced their pacing as to how long you should play each day and it was all "artificially stretched" by a grind to get loot and then upgrade it. I know why I enjoyed it so much because that's the kind of stuff I'm into but from your earlier posts it should be the absolute devil for you.
    Baleful gear, that was first time in Wow's history, when you had alternative progression outside of dungeons, raid and PVP, was good enough incentive. Covenant gear is analog now, but it's treated as catch-up gear, not progression gear. Progression is cosmetic only. And it's too slow to be worth doing. Yeah, I started playing in something like 6.2b, when flying was really enabled. "Fel appexis" weren't that mandatory. Tanaan content was very flexible. Only two main quests were mandatory. Everything else was simply speeding your progression up. You could pick, what you wanted to do. You could get extra apexis from just completing objectives. Yeah, treasures were hard to find, but rares were relatively easy to find. Yeah, without flying it would be hard, but with flying it was perfectly ok. I had my favorite route, I was flying along. It was enough to kill 4-6 rares every day. Overall pace was good. About hour of guaranteed content every day. You also to log in two times per day to manage your Garrisons. All other time could be spend on leveling alt. With flying. Perfect xpack.

    Again. 6.2 content was very flexible. Overall maximum appexis income was about 15K/day, that was 3/4 of needed to upgrade one item. That was about 17-18 days to fully complete Baleful set. But it wasn't that big deal, if you didn't do whole content every day. Overall it was mandatory to only complete one main quest. It allowed you to pick one objective of 2, so you could pick better one, especially when one of them was group one. I've never picked group one for example, despite of good reward. Second daily quest required you to complete another two objectives. Again, you could pick them. Overall it was enough. I don't remember exact numbers, but it was giving you around 7k, that resulted in 3 days per item, i.e. about 40 days total. Third "fel appexis" daily quest was optional and was purely about rep. But it was giving good reward. Yeah, searching for treasures was bad thing. I couldn't rely on it. But rares were perfectly ok. They weren't "rare elites" as they're now. I.e. most of them were doable solo. Some of them were harder, but still doable with some tactic and in better Baleful gear. There were many rares there and they were spawning very often. Some of them were spawnable. This 3rd daily was giving you around 10k appexis and it was perfectly enough to get item once it 2 days, i.e. around 26 days total. And I don't even talk about passive appexis income from killing mobs. Each objective granted extra appexis for completing it, so completing them all was good idea, if you had enough time, but nothing bad was happening, if you were skipping some of them. Plus bonuses for completing story campaign.

    Locations were different to suit different playstyles (don't remember exact location names):
    1) Port - big, easy, fast, especially with cannons and bombs, good for weak gear.
    2) Forge - big, easy, but slow without blowing cannons and killing orcs on wolfs, good for weak gear.
    3) Orc village - medium size, easy, spheres as main target, many rares, good for weak gear.
    4) Bird village - medium size, medium difficulty, had two parts, non-elite and elite.
    5) Front - medium size, hard, intended for groups, but still doable solo, better to do it in better gear.
    6) Draenai village - small, hard, better to do it last, if you still want to get extra appexis.
    7) Throne - group location, was never doing it.

    And all of it with flying. Of course without flying it would be much worse. For example to get from east part to west you would need to go through that cave. And I was usually flying over that mountain a little bit higher on a map, because there was rare there, that was spawning very often. Many rares were gated behind crowds of mobs. So, with flying you could just kill needed rares. Otherwise other players would most likely kill them before you could get there. You didn't need that flight masters. You didn't need to always start doing your business from flight master. You didn't need to always return back to flight master in order to get out from there. You could simply fly to next location at any moment.

    So, here is real reason, why flying is removed - Blizzard want to limit you, put you on rails, put you into corridor. Make content, that is more like instanced dungeon, than open world location, where everything is scripted and player can play certain way only and trying to do something else = cheating. I call it claustrophobic design. This kills whole idea of open world, because OPEN means FREEDOM of movement.

    About overcrowding. You should remember, that THERE WAS NO CRZ in current locations back then. And it was my voluntary choice to play on less crowded realms. Yeah, back then we had choice to do it. Now we don't. If Blizzard want to put 100500 players into that extremely slow Korina's stick WQ, you can do nothing about it. If Blizzard decide to put 100500 other faction's players into that catapult WQ - you can do nothing about it.

    And what about now? Anima income is 4-5 times slower, than appexis income back then. Plus gifts are also required. This results in getting one item may be once a week with several months of total time per character. Plus CRZ, that makes some WQs unplayable due to overcrowding. Plus lack of flying, that makes content much slower. Plus bad travel design, i.e. being required to waste around 5-10 minutes just to get to your WQ through Oribos. Plus boring leveling. Plus lack of fun features, such as Garrisons. Overall all it results in much worse rewards for much bigger effort. All this is bad. Extremely bad. This isn't worth playing, sorry.

  19. #519
    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    I am saying that you are counted as an MAU whether you log on once a month or every day. So, gating flying has no real effect on it thus not a reason they are gating flying.
    If flying and other content are made available or more readily available sooner and content is consumed more quickly there will be less incentive for people to log on over a longer period of time, you get the drift? This is why they introduced shady stuff like the loot reduction BS.
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    Biden is a creepy old dude, I will not be voting for the guy.
    ^ This is from a self-proclaimed Trump-hater who goes round vote-policing, berating and insulting other users for expressing their doubts and reservations about Joe Biden. He also urges others to end relationships and friendships just to "vote Trump out". https://ibb.co/2jRnZGC He can't seem to walk the talk himself.

  20. #520
    Quote Originally Posted by meroko View Post
    CURRENT CONTENT DOES NOT ALLOW FLYING, it's the middle ground compromise for the no flying and flying crowd. Always been that way, and it's worked just fine.
    Case in point:

    Yet another person mindlessly repeating the "it's a compromise" or "it's a middle ground".

    No....Meroko. It's NOT a compromise. It's definitely not a middle ground.

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