Flying tricked AGAIN

[huth]

Case in point:

Yet another person mindlessly repeating the "it's a compromise" or "it's a middle ground".

No....Meroko. It's NOT a compromise. It's definitely not a middle ground.

You repeating that it isn't one doesn't change that it is. Compromise doesn't mean "solution that i prefer" but an intermediate between multiple mutually exclusive positions. It's also by definition a middle ground, since it is somewhere in-between those positions.

The most extreme positions in this discussion are "flying always everywhere" and "no flying at all", so "flying sometimes" is definitely a compromise.

[WowIsDead64]

You repeating that it isn't one doesn't change that it is. Compromise doesn't mean "solution that i prefer" but an intermediate between multiple mutually exclusive positions. It's also by definition a middle ground, since it is somewhere in-between those positions.

The most extreme positions in this discussion are "flying always everywhere" and "no flying at all", so "flying sometimes" is definitely a compromise.

Compromise - is when both sides equally sacrifice something. When some players can always play current content, as they want, while others can never do it - then it's not compromise.

[SirCowdog]

Compromise - is when both sides equally sacrifice something. When some players can always play current content, as they want, while others can never do it - then it's not compromise.

Exactly!

Think about it @huth. Blizzard is still designing content that ignores that flight exists. Players must still consume virtually all the content in order to unlock it(slightly different modes in SL). Flight can only be used on content which is not relevant. Content which is released later is flight-locked.

What is Blizzard actually giving up here? Effectively, nothing of importance.
What are players who enjoy flight actually getting? Effectively, nothing of importance.

To even call this a compromise or middle ground tell me that you're not being objective.

[Mechagnome]

Exactly!

Think about it @huth. Blizzard is still designing content that ignores that flight exists. Players must still consume virtually all the content in order to unlock it(slightly different modes in SL). Flight can only be used on content which is not relevant. Content which is released later is flight-locked.

What is Blizzard actually giving up here? Effectively, nothing of importance.
What are players who enjoy flight actually getting? Effectively, nothing of importance.

To even call this a compromise or middle ground tell me that you're not being objective.

We are getting flying with 9.1 and NO PATHFINDER, and just as you suggested, the new content, Korthia, will still be a no flying zone. Congrats. You won the argument. Now we can finally put this poor horse powder into an air tight container and bury the remains of this over beaten creature.

[Dhrizzle]

We are getting flying with 9.1 and NO PATHFINDER, and just as you suggested, the new content, Korthia, will still be a no flying zone. Congrats. You won the argument. Now we can finally put this poor horse powder into an air tight container and bury the remains of this over beaten creature.

Just keep the shovels handy so we can dig it up again when they start talking about the next expansion.

[Argorwal]

Case in point:

Yet another person mindlessly repeating the "it's a compromise" or "it's a middle ground".

No....Meroko. It's NOT a compromise. It's definitely not a middle ground.

Pretty sure 8.2 and 8.3 patch content had flying when they were current and that’s just 1 expansion ago.

[Lei]

Added in 3.2:
Flying over Dalaran and Wintergrasp is now possible so long as players keep a healthy distance above the ground.

WotLK launched with WG being 100% no fly all the time.

I know it very well, but your was the second comment indicating wintergrasp being a no fly zone without any citation, coupled with IoQD.

- - - Updated - - -

Pretty sure 8.2 and 8.3 patch content had flying when they were current and that’s just 1 expansion ago.

8.3... Imagine de-flying(? word?) Uldum and the Vale for that rehashed shitty "content" the entirety 8.3 was. Imagine what a flowing shit-show would that have been.

[SirCowdog]

Just keep the shovels handy so we can dig it up again when they start talking about the next expansion.

You've spent more time keeping this argument alive than I have. Think about that for a second.

[rrayy]

If flying and other content are made available or more readily available sooner and content is consumed more quickly there will be less incentive for people to log on over a longer period of time, you get the drift? This is why they introduced shady stuff like the loot reduction BS.

Again, it does not matter how long you are logged in, only that you logged in at all. Your post is nothing but you making up claims to fit your agenda.

[Mechagnome]

Just keep the shovels handy so we can dig it up again when they start talking about the next expansion.

I get that flying is cool... I do. And I get that up until WoD flight at level cap was not an issue. Obviously Blizz is changing direction again away from pathfinder. Maybe if these guys spent half as much time actually PLAYING the game instead of lurking here and complaining about it, the minute Pathfinder dropped they would already have it. Just my two cents. I'm not found of circular arguments where the losing side refuses to just acknowledge the way things are and put a legitimate complaint on the actual forums, or simply unsub and use flight as the excuse.

- - - Updated - - -

You've spent more time keeping this argument alive than I have. Think about that for a second.

100k gold says you have MORE posts in this thread than he does. 1 year of gametime says you will STILL be in this thread long after the two of us walk out to go play the game.

[SirCowdog]

100k gold says you have MORE posts in this thread than he does. 1 year of gametime says you will STILL be in this thread long after the two of us walk out to go play the game.

Offering items that have no value to one party.

Is this a "compromise"? Rofl!

[Depakote]

Yup I'm very gald my sub is up tomorrow, I have played this game way to long it's time to move on to something else where they actually listen to the people who play the game.

Perhaps they are listening to the people who play the game. You're not the only one that plays ya know.

[WowIsDead64]

We are getting flying with 9.1 and NO PATHFINDER, and just as you suggested, the new content, Korthia, will still be a no flying zone. Congrats. You won the argument. Now we can finally put this poor horse powder into an air tight container and bury the remains of this over beaten creature.

And what is difference? You still need to "complete whole ground content". And 2nd part of this "ground content" is still gated by almost year of waiting. At the end it's still about removing flying from current content. Rep grinds just aren't part of it this time. They're replaced by time-gated Renown. And I'm not even sure, what is worse.

Yeah, in 8.2-8.3 Blizzard tried different approach. But yeah, in 8.3 it was mostly due to rehashing two old locations. And overall it was about "can we restrict players enough for flying to not matter at all" experiment. And it was really bad. Because flying is exactly about removing this restrictions. It's useless, if content is designed so badly, that even flying can't help.

[Ringthane]

I get that flying is cool... I do.

Flying isn't cool. Know how I know?

If every person in every thread ever posted here about flying really thought flying was so cool, they'd be out there flying. But what are they doing? 100k gold says they're all standing around in Stormwind or Ogrimmar waiting for their next queue to pop. They don't think it's cool - they think it's easy. They're too ADD-stricken to spend the time it takes traveling around the world the designers spent so much time creating. They want the easy way out, and they throw a tantrum when they don't get it.

[lockybalboa]

Again, it does not matter how long you are logged in, only that you logged in at all. Your post is nothing but you making up claims to fit your agenda.

What agenda lmao? Read my previous post again. I'm saying they are spreading and gating content so that people will log in over a longer period of time. When you grind gear that is being reduced, you'll have to log in. When you want to unlock flying you have to log in too. But over an extended period of time because of the reduced loot and gated content which is what they want. This is not merely a claim it is common sense. Too difficult for you to comprehend?

[Dhrizzle]

I get that flying is cool... I do. And I get that up until WoD flight at level cap was not an issue. Obviously Blizz is changing direction again away from pathfinder. Maybe if these guys spent half as much time actually PLAYING the game instead of lurking here and complaining about it, the minute Pathfinder dropped they would already have it. Just my two cents. I'm not found of circular arguments where the losing side refuses to just acknowledge the way things are and put a legitimate complaint on the actual forums, or simply unsub and use flight as the excuse.

I'd say flight at lvl cap became an issue with MoP when they wanted to tie world content/dailies a bit tighter to progression and it showed up how dull it could be when you're just sailing over and diving on targets.

100k gold says you have MORE posts in this thread than he does. 1 year of gametime says you will STILL be in this thread long after the two of us walk out to go play the game.

I'm afraid you'll be on a loser with your first bet, I've been on a bit of a Space Marine painting binge which means it's been easier to dip in and out of threads than it is when I'm in WoW. Just a few elite models to go, then a few characters, then another 26 to build and paint, 20 more to buy and possibly a few tanks to fix that are kicking around in a drawer somewhere.

[Snufflupagus]

Flying is essentially a cheat code. Of course they only enable it for outdated content. Anything else would make even less sense than it currently does.

[SirCowdog]

I'd say flight at lvl cap became an issue with MoP when they wanted to tie world content/dailies a bit tighter to progression and it showed up how dull it could be when you're just sailing over and diving on targets..

Only dull when applied to shallow content. But instead of innovation, they regressed and restricted flight so they could use a more simple formula. As though the same tired kill x quests are somehow more valuable while slogging through dazing mobs instead of flying over them.

This is the heart of the argument that always gets obscured by claims of "people just want to skip content" or some such.

[WowIsDead64]

I guess, for Blizzard it's just a change of world scale to optimize things. For them it's as easy, as changing 2x2 into 4x1. They think, result doesn't change, when they do it. They have some played time metrics. And they're obligated to keep up to them. Dunno, where they come from. Most likely from constantly whining players, who say, that they have nothing to do, so Blizzard just increase played time, till they won't STFU. So, for them flying means making world bigger, so it would take more time to travel, like it was back in old WotLK days. And they think, that they can simply change scale. Reduce size of world and slow players down to compensate. And of course reduce development time and increase so called "interaction" between players, i.e. mostly PVP. Because, you know, it's hard to meet other players, if world is big. Much easier, if there are 100 of them doing the same WQ on 2x2 spot. As easy, as this. And we are just bad players, who ask for 310% speed, while world is already super tiny. Blizzard stop caring, only when current content obsoletes and they provide new content to replace it. That's why flying is big taboo now. Blizzard avoid talking about it, like they're 100% right and everything is set in stone forever.

Overall, I just don't like current design. And I've already explained, why. It's so called claustrophobic design, where you're literally put into virtual corridor, cave or rat maze. I don't have claustrophobia. But I still feel discomfort, when my freedom is limited like this. It's like sitting in stomatologist's chair. You can sit for hours in front of your computer, yeah. But once your freedom of movement is limited - you feel discomfort. And new design also tends to cause overcrowding, I also don't like. Especially, when it comes hand in hand with faction imbalance.

[slender]

Once again flying will only be unlocked for already outdated content while being unavailable in the Maw and Korthia. This is Argus all over again. Next expansion MUST have flying in from the START and it must be usable EVERYWHERE.

Isn't Korthia in the Maw? So it kinda makes sense you cannot fly there.

Also isn't flying released for everyone, without having to worry about pathfinder? Seems like a win.