Page 28 of 33 FirstFirst ...
18
26
27
28
29
30
... LastLast
  1. #541
    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    Offering items that have no value to one party.

    Is this a "compromise"? Rofl!
    Actually, it's called a bet. It's when two people with opposing views wager one another as to a certain outcome. The definition of compromise is when two parties need to find a middle ground in which both may not be completely satisfied with the outcome, but one party is not at such a large deficit against the other. We see this in Shadowlands where Blizzard removed Pathfinder and makes flight available with the first large patch. I am also happy to share the definition of willfull ignorance as you have shown plenty of it in this thread simply by laughing and mocking other gamers who have legitimate points.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by WowIsDead64 View Post
    And what is difference? You still need to "complete whole ground content". And 2nd part of this "ground content" is still gated by almost year of waiting. At the end it's still about removing flying from current content. Rep grinds just aren't part of it this time. They're replaced by time-gated Renown. And I'm not even sure, what is worse.

    Yeah, in 8.2-8.3 Blizzard tried different approach. But yeah, in 8.3 it was mostly due to rehashing two old locations. And overall it was about "can we restrict players enough for flying to not matter at all" experiment. And it was really bad. Because flying is exactly about removing this restrictions. It's useless, if content is designed so badly, that even flying can't help.
    Pathfinder:
    1. Get revered with EVERYONE
    2. Explore EVERYTHING
    3. Do EVERY quest
    4. Complete multiple campaigns over multiple patches (just like BFA with 3 zones and 2 wars)
    5. Wait until the X.3 patch of the expansion until flying is no longer viable for healthy competition

    Shadowlands:
    1. Finish your Covenant campaign

    Now, if you cannot see "the difference", maybe your anger about pathfinder and blind rage against the devs need to be put in check or worked through. We may not get it the moment we hit 60, but at least there is no Pathfinder.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ringthane View Post
    Flying isn't cool. Know how I know?

    If every person in every thread ever posted here about flying really thought flying was so cool, they'd be out there flying. But what are they doing? 100k gold says they're all standing around in Stormwind or Ogrimmar waiting for their next queue to pop. They don't think it's cool - they think it's easy. They're too ADD-stricken to spend the time it takes traveling around the world the designers spent so much time creating. They want the easy way out, and they throw a tantrum when they don't get it.
    As someone who enjoys flying, I can assure you that is not the case. The Capital City Heroes (queue poppers) may hover on a mount, but they could care less about flight unless it is to gather mats to build resources for raiding. Most players who only focus on instanced content seldom ever visit a forum, or engage in conversations like this. Flight is for us lazy casuals who are tired of slogging from one end of a zone to the other just to knock out some dailies. So needless to say I am over the MOON with the removal of Pathfinder and quite satisfied with this compromise.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    I'd say flight at lvl cap became an issue with MoP when they wanted to tie world content/dailies a bit tighter to progression and it showed up how dull it could be when you're just sailing over and diving on targets.

    I'm afraid you'll be on a loser with your first bet, I've been on a bit of a Space Marine painting binge which means it's been easier to dip in and out of threads than it is when I'm in WoW. Just a few elite models to go, then a few characters, then another 26 to build and paint, 20 more to buy and possibly a few tanks to fix that are kicking around in a drawer somewhere.
    Given his history for whining and complaining about flight, I am confident he will eventually occupy 20% or more of this thread. As for your project, sounds like a blast during covid.
    “Common sense is not so common.” ~ Voltaire

  2. #542
    Quote Originally Posted by Mechagnome View Post
    Actually, it's called a bet. It's when two people with opposing views wager one another as to a certain outcome. The definition of compromise is when two parties need to find a middle ground in which both may not be completely satisfied with the outcome, but one party is not at such a large deficit against the other. We see this in Shadowlands where Blizzard removed Pathfinder and makes flight available with the first large patch. I am also happy to share the definition of willfull ignorance as you have shown plenty of it in this thread simply by laughing and mocking other gamers who have legitimate points.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Pathfinder:
    1. Get revered with EVERYONE
    2. Explore EVERYTHING
    3. Do EVERY quest
    4. Complete multiple campaigns over multiple patches (just like BFA with 3 zones and 2 wars)
    5. Wait until the X.3 patch of the expansion until flying is no longer viable for healthy competition

    Shadowlands:
    1. Finish your Covenant campaign

    Now, if you cannot see "the difference", maybe your anger about pathfinder and blind rage against the devs need to be put in check or worked through. We may not get it the moment we hit 60, but at least there is no Pathfinder.

    - - - Updated - - -



    As someone who enjoys flying, I can assure you that is not the case. The Capital City Heroes (queue poppers) may hover on a mount, but they could care less about flight unless it is to gather mats to build resources for raiding. Most players who only focus on instanced content seldom ever visit a forum, or engage in conversations like this. Flight is for us lazy casuals who are tired of slogging from one end of a zone to the other just to knock out some dailies. So needless to say I am over the MOON with the removal of Pathfinder and quite satisfied with this compromise.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Given his history for whining and complaining about flight, I am confident he will eventually occupy 20% or more of this thread. As for your project, sounds like a blast during covid.
    People seem to be having hard time to get why this new approach to flying can be potentionally worse than ever before.
    You see yes, in WoD, Legion, BfA, you had to work harder to get flying. But in Shadowlands, we still don't know just how much they timegate it. They plan to add another 40 renown, right? If they give us flying after finishing this new 40 renown with the same progress/week as we had with launch, then it's going to be a shitshow.
    You could get flying in 2-3 weeks in WoD, in Legion, in BfA, providing you pre-worked on the starter stuff, and kept up with the x.2 part. If this will not be the case with 9.1, then you essentailly trade shit for diarrhea. Remember 7.2 broken shore infamously shitty "campaign" with Khadgar? Timegate for the sake of timegate?
    And then not to forget how 9.1 will come after the same amount of time after launch as 7.2 came in Legion. And people are like "yeah, flying comes earlier, flying comes cheaper!" Lolololol. No wonder the devs can feed whatever shit they want with certain players.
    Last edited by Lei; 2021-03-02 at 07:35 PM.

  3. #543
    Quote Originally Posted by Lei View Post
    You could get flying in 2-3 weeks in WoD, in Legion, in BfA, providing you pre-worked on the starter stuff, and kept up with the x.2 part.
    This is where you lose me. In WoD, flying wasn't even finalized OR decided on until after 6.2, and then you had every possible requirement under the sun to complete. Hell, until after Selfie cams and Twitter integrations as a "content patch", we didn't even know if flying would ever come back to WoW in any future expac. Alex Afrasaibi was explicit about hating the idea of flight negating content and making the world feel less open or dangerous when you could simply mount up, fly up, and afk safe and sound for 10 minutes while your wife asked you to take out the trash.

    This is the first time since MoP we have gotten a very clear and MINIMAL set of requirements for flight. The only thing we have to complete is the "Covenant Campaign". This means regardless of Renown, or anything else, if your 9 chapters are done, then flight instantly unlocks. Just in case you need the proof:

    https://www.icy-veins.com/forums/top...raft-qa-recap/

    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Shadowlands Pathfinder only requires completing the Campaign. You won't be able to fly directly from zone to zone. The zones are not next to each other.
    No exploration, no rep, no renown... no nothing. People are bitching and whining and moaning and groaning... for nothing.
    “Common sense is not so common.” ~ Voltaire

  4. #544
    I enjoy flying, and my flying mounts

    I spent countless hours farming various flying mounts, some of my greatest rewards in the game were flying mounts ( ie. LifeBinder's Handmaiden for killing heroic Deathwing )

    It is an insult, and a resentment building frustration that Blizzard refuses to provide flying... when it was simply part of the game for several expansions

    This is stupid... just let us fly

    If flying ruins levelling... then design levelling around flying... duh, just like you did for Wrath, Cata, and Mop... we were never allowed to fly until max level anyway
    Last edited by Shiekyerbooty; 2021-03-02 at 10:05 PM.

  5. #545
    Quote Originally Posted by Mechagnome View Post
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Shadowlands Pathfinder only requires completing the Campaign. You won't be able to fly directly from zone to zone. The zones are not next to each other.
    No exploration, no rep, no renown... no nothing. People are bitching and whining and moaning and groaning... for nothing.
    Right..and Blizzard NEVER changes their mind, or obfuscates the meaning of what they said with something else, ala This is Argus

    The problem is that you say you have "legitimate points", but those points have been torn apart in previous threads...sometimes YEARS ago. Lei already did it: We have no idea how much the Campaign will be time gated, or what that campaign entails. We have no idea how many zones in the future(where the lion's share of time will be spent) will not have flying at all. You act as those simply taking the name of Pathfinder changes everything, when really it's just polishing a turd with a new coat of paint.

    The problem with all the "legitimate points" is that they're based on disingenuous points that don't actually address any of the concerns or desires of people who want flying. Even the point of "first major patch" doesn't have a set release date yet, and is months away, with NO guarantee of flight being usable in any content released in that patch.

    People like to call this a Compromise, but in reality the players who want to enjoy flight NEVER get anything they actually want. And the fact that people like you keep pushing this compromise point is insulting and disingenuous, so I'm going to give it every little bit of mockery it deserves. You want me to argue with you respectfully? How about actually taking the time to look at things from a side other than Blizzard's.

  6. #546
    Quote Originally Posted by Mechagnome View Post
    This is where you lose me. In WoD, flying wasn't even finalized OR decided on until after 6.2, and then you had every possible requirement under the sun to complete. Hell, until after Selfie cams and Twitter integrations as a "content patch", we didn't even know if flying would ever come back to WoW in any future expac. Alex Afrasaibi was explicit about hating the idea of flight negating content and making the world feel less open or dangerous when you could simply mount up, fly up, and afk safe and sound for 10 minutes while your wife asked you to take out the trash.

    This is the first time since MoP we have gotten a very clear and MINIMAL set of requirements for flight. The only thing we have to complete is the "Covenant Campaign". This means regardless of Renown, or anything else, if your 9 chapters are done, then flight instantly unlocks. Just in case you need the proof:

    https://www.icy-veins.com/forums/top...raft-qa-recap/

    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Shadowlands Pathfinder only requires completing the Campaign. You won't be able to fly directly from zone to zone. The zones are not next to each other.
    No exploration, no rep, no renown... no nothing. People are bitching and whining and moaning and groaning... for nothing.
    I was explaining the wod flying thing retrospectively. If you look back on it, as of today, you know. I remember wowhead having a WoD pathfinder requirement checker page, and 6.2 was in beta for quite some time so you could work on everything else besides the 6.2 requirements in that time, so when 6.2 dropped, you could just finish the 6.2 requirement part. Not to forget how flying itself was unlocked later in 6.2.5, 2 months later or something, sooooo yeah.

    Again, your blue quote. Campaign is tied to renown right now. We still dont know if it will be the case in 9.1 but I have this feeling it will be. And yes, 9.0 campaign ended at renown 28?30? so techinaclly you probably won't need 40 renown, only 28-30. Still: TIMEGATING will take place. You completely ignored my argument about it.
    Last edited by Lei; 2021-03-02 at 11:16 PM.

  7. #547
    Quote Originally Posted by Lei View Post
    Campaign is tied to renown right now.
    Gonna need you to read this very carefully:

    Flying is tied to the Campaign... Renown is NOT tied to the campaign.

    https://www.wowhead.com/achievement=...enant-campaign

    I finished my campaign when I was renown 26. I have the achievement for completing it. Even if I leave my covenant at 38 renown, which is the current CAP, I can still unlock flying the moment 9.1 drops in our laps. You have it in your head the two are tied together, and the original rumor of remown was just that, a rumor. Blizzcon set the tone and stated flight will unlock with 9.1 and the campaign completion. Not all campaigns, not Renown 40. A single covenant campaign which means to mean flight will be PER CHARACTER and not account wide. THAT is the catch, and no one is seeing it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    Snipped
    At this point, you are neither listening nor comprehending and your willful ignorance and desire to fight is showing. Finish your campaign and your character flies... it is not that difficult. Hell, if anything, it proves that using Fates and only focusing on your covenant makes MORE sense than even doing the whole story without being penalized. You are welcome to pick someone else for your whining and bitching in this circular argument. You are obviously not here for a legitimate and serious discussion. You're here to high five those who agree with you and jam your fingers in your ears for those who don't. Good luck to you and whatever sucker continually gets sucked into your one-dimensional closed minded arguments.
    “Common sense is not so common.” ~ Voltaire

  8. #548
    Quote Originally Posted by Mechagnome View Post
    Gonna need you to read this very carefully:

    Flying is tied to the Campaign... Renown is NOT tied to the campaign.

    https://www.wowhead.com/achievement=...enant-campaign

    I finished my campaign when I was renown 26. I have the achievement for completing it. Even if I leave my covenant at 38 renown, which is the current CAP, I can still unlock flying the moment 9.1 drops in our laps. You have it in your head the two are tied together, and the original rumor of remown was just that, a rumor. Blizzcon set the tone and stated flight will unlock with 9.1 and the campaign completion. Not all campaigns, not Renown 40. A single covenant campaign which means to mean flight will be PER CHARACTER and not account wide. THAT is the catch, and no one is seeing it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mechagnome View Post
    I can still unlock flying the moment 9.1 drops in our laps.
    Wait what? You think the 9.1 flying unlock achievement will want the 9.0 campaign to be completed? It will want the NEW campaign to be completed. The 9.1 campaign. Which will probably/most likely to be timegated for weeks.

    And the campaign progression is directly tied to renown, at least as of now in 9.0, as you get new campaign quests with increasing your renown. This is how they timegated it. Like what the hell are you talking about? Have you ever checked your renown interface thingy?
    This thing?
    Last edited by Lei; 2021-03-03 at 12:08 AM.

  9. #549
    Quote Originally Posted by Lei View Post
    It will want the NEW campaign to be completed. The 9.1 campaign. Which will probably/most likely to be timegated for weeks.
    You are correct and I was mistaken. The 9.1 campaign will have to be completed. As for how long it takes, it is anyone's guess. When I am wrong I admit it. That said, there is no telling what, or if any gating will be used with 9.1 since we will never fly in Korthia anyway. So I can't imagine much new content coming to the existing zones to hold us there longer, implying the new campaign will be Korthia, and since it is one big zone, my guess would be the whole campaign shouldn't takes more than 8 hours of playtime, without knowing how much we will see at a time. It is anyone's guess at this point, but anyone who is certain about anything at this point will likely end up scrambling eggs from the same basket which I am scraping from my own face.
    “Common sense is not so common.” ~ Voltaire

  10. #550
    Quote Originally Posted by Mechagnome View Post
    You are correct and I was mistaken. The 9.1 campaign will have to be completed. As for how long it takes, it is anyone's guess. When I am wrong I admit it. That said, there is no telling what, or if any gating will be used with 9.1 since we will never fly in Korthia anyway. So I can't imagine much new content coming to the existing zones to hold us there longer, implying the new campaign will be Korthia, and since it is one big zone, my guess would be the whole campaign shouldn't takes more than 8 hours of playtime, without knowing how much we will see at a time. It is anyone's guess at this point, but anyone who is certain about anything at this point will likely end up scrambling eggs from the same basket which I am scraping from my own face.
    There was a dev interview or was it the Q&A? I forget, and what I noticed is that they talk very carefully, but this dev kind of implied this campaign will take a "couple of weeks". If it takes more than 2 weeks, then it's already slower than unlocking flying in 8.2 or 7.2 from the start of that particular patch. This is what worries me.
    And seeing how the campaign is a weekly thing, if they just make a 6 part story for the campaign, that means 6 weeks to unlock flying from the very launch of 9.1. Which is about 3-4 weeks later than in 8.2. See how this can be trading shit for diarrhea?

  11. #551
    Quote Originally Posted by Lei View Post
    There was a dev interview or was it the Q&A? I forget, and what I noticed is that they talk very carefully, but this dev kind of implied this campaign will take a "couple of weeks". If it takes more than 2 weeks, then it's already slower than unlocking flying in 8.2 or 7.2 from the start of that particular patch. This is what worries me.
    And seeing how the campaign is a weekly thing, if they just make a 6 part story for the campaign, that means 6 weeks to unlock flying from the very launch of 9.1. Which is about 3-4 weeks later than in 8.2. See how this can be trading shit for diarrhea?
    I know the one you mean. As for the new "Pathfinder", I am all about it. Fuck rep, exploration, and all of the other randomness. Let me finish the actual story and unlock this. Somewhere along the way they listened. To your earlier point, it was barely a 2 week grind in WoD once Flight was available. I can't imagine with this lesser requirement of a system that it will take longer than that. But again, none of us really have that info, nor can we completely trust what as been said at Blizzcon. After all, Stormshield is the Alliance base in WoD, not Karabor as originally announced.

    https://www.wowhead.com/news=321068/...level-50-once-

    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Scott Johnson: What are the actual requirements for flying in Shadowlands, where can we fly, and can we fly from area to area (for example, from Ardenweald to Oribos)?

    Ion Hazzikostas: Shadowlands Pathfinder, which is coming in Chains of Domination, will not require any reputations. This is different from Pathfinder achievements from past expansions, it just requires completing your full Covenant campaign and the new chapters added in Chains of Domination. Once you've done that, you have mastered the overworld of Shadowlands, restored much of the Anima, and then you can earn the ability to fly within the Shadowlands.

    Now, you cannot fly directly from zone to zone. I can give you the technical reason for it, but it also matches the world we're in. These are not zones that are next to each other. When you go through that portal in Oribos, you're streaking from one area to another and have this energy rushing past you. You're actually travelling vast distances. Even if we said, "You know what? We don't care that it looks janky, we're gonna let you fly", you'd actually have to autofly for something like 30 to 40 minutes to get from one zone to the other. You probably don't want that. Use the flight paths, and the once you're in the zones, you can traverse them freely.

    Scott Johnson: That is really interesting, I didn't realize there was that much. I think maybe what throws people off is the map, they bring the map and how it looks like in traditional WoW fashion. Follow-up: What about alts? So after I unlock flying, can they fly at 50 or is there still a requirement to level fully, go through the Campaigns to get, or they can just do it?

    Ion Hazzikostas: Pathfinder is an account-wide achievement and so when you can fly in the Shadowlands, you - The player - Have earned the right to fly in the Shadowlands, just as prior Pathfinder achievements worked.
    “Common sense is not so common.” ~ Voltaire

  12. #552
    Quote Originally Posted by Mechagnome View Post
    I know the one you mean. As for the new "Pathfinder", I am all about it. Fuck rep, exploration, and all of the other randomness. Let me finish the actual story and unlock this. Somewhere along the way they listened. To your earlier point, it was barely a 2 week grind in WoD once Flight was available. I can't imagine with this lesser requirement of a system that it will take longer than that. But again, none of us really have that info, nor can we completely trust what as been said at Blizzcon. After all, Stormshield is the Alliance base in WoD, not Karabor as originally announced.
    Only they didn't really listen. Palyers wanted flying earlier in the expansion, but as it looks now, the time between 9.0 and 9.1 is actually the same as 7.0 and 7.2 Then we don't know if later zones will allow us to fly at all (see korthia). And they probably timegate it even more than ever before (if the campaign is longer than 2-3 weeks, then for sure. But then imagine a content patch with only 2-3 weeks of campaign) How is this listening?

    I've been saying this for a while but the devs have become these evil genies. You catch the genie, ask to meet a nice girl and they present you your mom. Wish granted. GLHF.
    Last edited by Lei; 2021-03-03 at 12:26 AM.

  13. #553
    Quote Originally Posted by Lei View Post
    Only they didn't really listen. Palyers wanted flying earlier in the expansion, but as it looks now, the time between 9.0 and 9.1 is actually the same as 7.0 and 7.2 Then we don't know if later zones will allow us to fly at all (see korthia). And they probably timegate it even more than ever before (if the campaign is longer than 2-3 weeks, then for sure. But then imagine a content patch with only 2-3 weeks of campaign) How is this listening?

    I've been saying this for a while but the devs have become these evil genies. You catch the genie, ask to meet a nice girl and they present you your mom. Wish granted. GLHF.
    They "listened" in the respect that we want to see the story, but are not interested in getting exalted with everyone and doing every little corner of the game. At least this is less strenuous. Like unlocking Nighborne with the 900 (no hyperbole) quests in Suramar versus unlocking Dark Iron Dwarves which was "finish the war campaign". I would much rather have the campaign all day every day versus the week solid of game time spent unlocking a race I never even play. 12 hours of gametime versus 50 is a big deal.
    “Common sense is not so common.” ~ Voltaire

  14. #554
    lol @ people calling this a compromise...

    people who dont want to fly never had to, those who do want to fly are prohibited from doing so... this is clearly a once sided issue...

    to this day I dont understand this incessant need for one group of players to impose their playstyle on others instead of just doing what they enjoy without trying to make the game shitty for everyone else...

  15. #555
    Quote Originally Posted by Mechagnome View Post
    They "listened" in the respect that we want to see the story, but are not interested in getting exalted with everyone and doing every little corner of the game. At least this is less strenuous. Like unlocking Nighborne with the 900 (no hyperbole) quests in Suramar versus unlocking Dark Iron Dwarves which was "finish the war campaign". I would much rather have the campaign all day every day versus the week solid of game time spent unlocking a race I never even play. 12 hours of gametime versus 50 is a big deal.
    I think you're putting to much emphasis on the superficial aspects of the unlock, and not looking at the practical end result.

    You say that Blizzard listened, but all they actually did was play a shell game. Sure, you don't have to do literally everything in the expansion, but what you do end up having to complete is very likely ending with the same result: Exhausting the content of the current patch while still only being able to fly in areas where it's largely meaningless to do so.

    This is why people like Lei keep bringing up the timegate point. It doesn't matter if the unlock isn't called pathfinder, and you don't have to grind reps...if the timegating results in the same amount of time taken to finish the campaign, and you still can't use flying anywhere that it matters.

    And you do have a point about absolute time spent in game. I also would prefer only 12 hours instead of 50. But I'd much rather have a desire to log in and have fun for as long as I want instead of only logging in and playing just enough to complete some chores before leaving to do something else.

    Ans that's where my biggest issue comes up: Chore-based open world design meant to force you to log in over multiple weeks, instead of fun-based design meant to actually promote immersion and enjoyment.

    But clearly a lot of people like their daily repetitive chores, and Blizzard caters to them instead of striving for something better.
    Last edited by SirCowdog; 2021-03-03 at 02:24 AM.

  16. #556
    Quote Originally Posted by chaoticcrono View Post
    lol @ people calling this a compromise...

    people who dont want to fly never had to, those who do want to fly are prohibited from doing so... this is clearly a once sided issue...

    to this day I dont understand this incessant need for one group of players to impose their playstyle on others instead of just doing what they enjoy without trying to make the game shitty for everyone else...
    It's not one group of players imposing their playstyle on others, it's the devs having their idea of how they want the game to play and a group of players agreeing that it's better than what came before.

  17. #557
    Blizzard are liars and scammers.

  18. #558
    Imagine being both THIS loud and THIS wrong.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaerys View Post
    Gaze upon the field in which I grow my fucks, and see that it is barren.
    Quote Originally Posted by Skulltaker View Post
    Those are the fields where the challenging and engaging raid mechanics for Classic are grown. See that they lay barren.

  19. #559
    this is my surprised face.

    I am fully in favor of keeping flying away until content for those areas are generally done.

  20. #560
    High Overlord Magic gun 23's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    California
    Posts
    101
    OP posted this thread just to stir the pot and sit back and watch. People like that shouldn't be on these forums.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •