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  1. #621
    Quote Originally Posted by Mechagnome View Post
    just the same as complaining solely for the sake that flight is not just being handed to us. I'd rather have this new "pathfinder" versus the old one.
    Wait what? This new pathfinder will be (seems like) handed to us, for less actual work, which you say you like. So it is actually you who want it handed to you.
    How funny.

  2. #622
    Quote Originally Posted by Mechagnome View Post
    I can do, and say, as I please as long as it does not violate the terms of this site and the discretion of a moderator. I just have to ask myself one, simple question:

    "Why is it that someone who hates the content, and berates the creative team, who probably isn't subbed and hasn't been for awhile, is even concerned about unlocking flight or how it is accomplished?"

    If you hate this game so much because of the direction it went in WoD and continues to go, why are you even here?
    Ad hominem, and still avoiding the actual points.

    I do not "hate" the content. I simply call it like it is: Overly formulaic and stuck in a rut of repetitive shallow design.

    I DO "berate" the creative team because they aren't being creative.

    As to why I'm concerned about how flight is used in the game? It's because it represents a point that I believe would make the game better, and would bring both me and many other players back.

    Once you start looking at the state of the game as a whole instead of trying to win the argument, you'll start to understand my point of view better.

  3. #623
    Quote Originally Posted by Lei View Post
    Wait what? This new pathfinder will be (seems like) handed to us, for less actual work, which you say you like. So it is actually you who want it handed to you.
    How funny.
    You misunderstood that. Every post I have made has been approving the new method. I was not fond of the old Pathfinder which was "go do these 37 things and comeback in 2 weeks. Now it's "Go do your campaign and poof". I was pointing out that SirCowdog, the champion of flying is still complaining even after Blizz made a compromise and removed 85% of the Pathfinder requirements given their last 3 expansions.
    “Common sense is not so common.” ~ Voltaire

  4. #624
    Quote Originally Posted by Mechagnome View Post
    You misunderstood that. Every post I have made has been approving the new method. I was not fond of the old Pathfinder which was "go do these 37 things and comeback in 2 weeks. Now it's "Go do your campaign and poof". I was pointing out that SirCowdog, the champion of flying is still complaining even after Blizz made a compromise and removed 85% of the Pathfinder requirements given their last 3 expansions.
    concider for the moment, the timing of when we are getting this (current estimates are no earlier then june, given the precedent of how long prior expansion major patches took from pts to release and this patch is NOT on pts yet). also covenant campaign is STILl time gated as quests unlock with your renown levels. unless you completely no life it, there is nothing poof about getting your renown high enough to finish it. also we already know that we are not getting it from finishing current quests. we will need to finish new quests that will be added with the patch, and we also know that they will NOT be available all at once. we do not know whether renown requirement to unlock them all will go up and if yes - by how much. so in a way, we are STILL grinding rep. it just has a different name.

  5. #625
    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    Once you start looking at the state of the game as a whole instead of trying to win the argument, you'll start to understand my point of view better.
    I snipped the bluster. So let's stick to the facts.

    According to an interview with Blizzard done by Eurogamer, Shadowlands is the fastest selling Blizzard title of all time with 3.7M copies sold on launch day and more game time logged in the first 4 months of Shadowlands than any other WoW expansion. BusinessWire agreed and even stated it was the fastest selling PC game of all time industry wide. All of this in the midst of a pandemic no less, and hard financial times for a lot of people. Gamezindustry.biz and Comicbook.com also concurred with the claim.

    Like with any expansion, about 40% rushed through the content and have unsubbed to play other things until patch 9.1. We see this in every expac, and each spell between PTR and patch drops. According to the numbers at MMO Population, we are still seeing nearly 6 million players per day logging into WoW meaning, there was at least 10M when the expac dropped, and will be again when 9.1 arrives, or close to it.

    The only thing wrong with this expansion is the vocal minority who has some deep seeded hate for Blizzard's direction and the need to shout everyone else down to prove them wrong, or get them to simply give up and walk away. So I will go one better. I've provided actual facts to show the game is still being enjoyed, and this very popular and well planned expansion will see its usual influx of logins during patch drops. Since you called me out for dodging facts, I will do the same. You are unsubbed and have been for a long time. I figure if you don't play, you don't vote, and the only reason you are here complaining is probably because the devs have already blocked your "opinion and feedback" on the official forums.

    As to everyone else left in this thread, enjoy your time in game and see you around Azeroth.



    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Witchblade77 View Post
    concider for the moment, the timing of when we are getting this (current estimates are no earlier then june, given the precedent of how long prior expansion major patches took from pts to release and this patch is NOT on pts yet). also covenant campaign is STILl time gated as quests unlock with your renown levels. unless you completely no life it, there is nothing poof about getting your renown high enough to finish it. also we already know that we are not getting it from finishing current quests. we will need to finish new quests that will be added with the patch, and we also know that they will NOT be available all at once. we do not know whether renown requirement to unlock them all will go up and if yes - by how much. so in a way, we are STILL grinding rep. it just has a different name.
    People keep saying "renown", but renown has nothing to do with the 9.1 "campaign". Yes, the campaign may be gated for 2 weeks, or 2 months, but unless Blizz goes completely back on their word, renown will play no part. (And with that I am out.)
    “Common sense is not so common.” ~ Voltaire

  6. #626
    Quote Originally Posted by Mechagnome View Post


    People keep saying "renown", but renown has nothing to do with the 9.1 "campaign". Yes, the campaign may be gated for 2 weeks, or 2 months, but unless Blizz goes completely back on their word, renown will play no part. (And with that I am out.)
    except, right now you need what.. 24 renown? to be able to do all the existing chapters? I may be off by a few levels, but its 20 something. and current max level renown is 40. do you honestly, genuinely think they are NOT going to require at least renown 40 to do the first quest? we DO have a precedent of minimum renown required to unlock campaign quests already. so yeah, renown has something to do with it already.

  7. #627
    Quote Originally Posted by Mechagnome View Post
    I snipped the bluster. So let's stick to the facts.

    According to an interview with Blizzard done by Eurogamer, Shadowlands is the fastest selling Blizzard title of all time with 3.7M copies sold on launch day and more game time logged in the first 4 months of Shadowlands than any other WoW expansion. BusinessWire agreed and even stated it was the fastest selling PC game of all time industry wide. All of this in the midst of a pandemic no less, and hard financial times for a lot of people. Gamezindustry.biz and Comicbook.com also concurred with the claim.

    Like with any expansion, about 40% rushed through the content and have unsubbed to play other things until patch 9.1. We see this in every expac, and each spell between PTR and patch drops. According to the numbers at MMO Population, we are still seeing nearly 6 million players per day logging into WoW meaning, there was at least 10M when the expac dropped, and will be again when 9.1 arrives, or close to it.

    The only thing wrong with this expansion is the vocal minority who has some deep seeded hate for Blizzard's direction and the need to shout everyone else down to prove them wrong, or get them to simply give up and walk away. So I will go one better. I've provided actual facts to show the game is still being enjoyed, and this very popular and well planned expansion will see its usual influx of logins during patch drops. Since you called me out for dodging facts, I will do the same. You are unsubbed and have been for a long time. I figure if you don't play, you don't vote, and the only reason you are here complaining is probably because the devs have already blocked your "opinion and feedback" on the official forums.

    As to everyone else left in this thread, enjoy your time in game and see you around Azeroth.



    - - - Updated - - -



    People keep saying "renown", but renown has nothing to do with the 9.1 "campaign". Yes, the campaign may be gated for 2 weeks, or 2 months, but unless Blizz goes completely back on their word, renown will play no part. (And with that I am out.)
    Wow, that data from "mmo-population" is obviously waaay off.
    And then you can't really rush through content because literally everything is gated. Covenant campaign: gated, sanctum upgrades: gated (anima farm). Gearing: gated, weekly vault... So what content could've anyone rushed through?
    Last edited by Lei; 2021-03-05 at 02:05 AM.

  8. #628
    Quote Originally Posted by Mechagnome View Post
    I snipped the bluster. So let's stick to the facts.

    According to an interview with Blizzard done by Eurogamer, Shadowlands is the fastest selling Blizzard title of all time with 3.7M copies sold on launch day and more game time logged in the first 4 months of Shadowlands than any other WoW expansion. BusinessWire agreed and even stated it was the fastest selling PC game of all time industry wide. All of this in the midst of a pandemic no less, and hard financial times for a lot of people. Gamezindustry.biz and Comicbook.com also concurred with the claim.

    Like with any expansion, about 40% rushed through the content and have unsubbed to play other things until patch 9.1. We see this in every expac, and each spell between PTR and patch drops. According to the numbers at MMO Population, we are still seeing nearly 6 million players per day logging into WoW meaning, there was at least 10M when the expac dropped, and will be again when 9.1 arrives, or close to it.

    The only thing wrong with this expansion is the vocal minority who has some deep seeded hate for Blizzard's direction and the need to shout everyone else down to prove them wrong, or get them to simply give up and walk away. So I will go one better. I've provided actual facts to show the game is still being enjoyed, and this very popular and well planned expansion will see its usual influx of logins during patch drops. Since you called me out for dodging facts, I will do the same. You are unsubbed and have been for a long time. I figure if you don't play, you don't vote, and the only reason you are here complaining is probably because the devs have already blocked your "opinion and feedback" on the official forums.

    As to everyone else left in this thread, enjoy your time in game and see you around Azeroth.
    We already know, that it's happened due to aggressive marketing, i.e. Blizzard releasing some paid articles, where it was said, that all (or at least many) BFA's problems are solved in SL - you now have catch-ups, problems with alts are solved, it's no longer "you can play on one character only", blah blah blah. Even I was tricked into buying SL before return of flying, as I usually do. But we already know, that it's BS. What was fixed - is just may be two weeks of content. Beyond that there is nothing to do in this game. And SuperData already shows, that subs are returned back to normal.

  9. #629
    Quote Originally Posted by Mechagnome View Post
    I snipped the bluster. So let's stick to the facts.
    Wants to stick to the "facts".
    Snips "bluster" because it doesn't match his misrepresentation of my point of view.

    I can see this is going to go well

    Quote Originally Posted by Mechagnome View Post
    . All of this in the midst of a pandemic no less, and hard financial times for a lot of people.
    And speaking of snipping and misrepresentation....

    The gaming industry as a whole is booming BECAUSE of the pandemic. Relative to other forms of entertainment, videogames are a massively better investment of money. Time-eating MMORPGs especially when you consider how many people are stuck in quarantine or working from home or just plain out of work.

    And are you really going to try to use sub numbers to support your case, when Blizzard themselves steered clear of it as a measure of success? When the very expansion that introduced the concept of WoW without flying suffered a drop in subs so harsh that it lead Blizzard to that stance?

    As for facts....the only one you provided was the rate of sale, while attempting to paint it in a favorable light for your argument. And there's nothing to say the same numbers would have been effected one way or another by a WoW with flying......since you seem to be implying that those figures are somehow in support of wow's design without flight.

    I don't believe I've ever "shouted down" anyone on this topic. I might mock particularly stand-out examples of ignorance. But its generally people and posts like yours that bring that out in me. You've constantly made assumptions about my views, and claims based on things I've never actually said or espoused.

    You seem to think that heavy criticism of the open world design means that I hate wow as a whole. You've tried to put words in my mouth. You've claimed that I must be banned from the official forums. You even implied that my opinion doesn't matter.

    I may dislike and criticize blizzards open world design, but the only person filled with hate here seems to be you.

    I want the open world to be better. I want Blizzard to DO better. But it seems like every time that gets suggested someone comes along and feels the need to shit on everything that could possibly make that happen, or pretends that the grounded design is so perfect that any change to it would somehow mar perfection.

    Anywya, it's clear we're not going to any sort of agreement. And I don't need to subject myself to any further misrepresentation. Have fun in world of instancecraft, and we'll see what actually happens in 9.1.
    Last edited by SirCowdog; 2021-03-05 at 04:50 AM.

  10. #630
    Quote Originally Posted by Witchblade77 View Post
    except, right now you need what.. 24 renown? to be able to do all the existing chapters? I may be off by a few levels, but its 20 something. and current max level renown is 40. do you honestly, genuinely think they are NOT going to require at least renown 40 to do the first quest? we DO have a precedent of minimum renown required to unlock campaign quests already. so yeah, renown has something to do with it already.
    Well reknown is only a few hours or maybe a few days to catchup depending on play time and if you have help to boost forward. At most you should be reknowned cap just doing callings and quests in 3 weeks max right now which would also earn you thousands of anima and tens of thousands of gold anyway for very little play time committment.
    Also seeing as flying is likely account wide you only need to do it on one character.

  11. #631
    And I don't even talk about simple fact, that only casual content, added in 9.1 - is even more Maw. You know, I skipped Argus for reason. This makes it reasonable to return only may be in 9.2, i.e. it's again "no game till x.2" concept. And returning half a year before pre-patch, that will most likely destroy SL's content, so I won't be able to fully experience it - is bad idea. So, almost whole xpack is already doomed to fail. It's inevitable. It's, again, "We already knew during Alpha/Beta, that it would fail". Why it's always so simple to know, that xpack will fail, and why it's always so hard to fix it in time?

  12. #632
    Quote Originally Posted by rmh1985 View Post
    Define need, though.

    I need it to have fun in the world, and games should be fun. I can technically play the game without it, but I don't have fun that way, so it doesn't really fufill the purpose of a game then.

    Since I like instanced content, I make it work by skipping almost all world content until flying is added, but it has severely diminished my enjoyment of the game compared to earlier expacs with flying at launch, and if I ever quit raiding, I'll have no reason to stick around.
    If you need flying for wow to be fun, i really think another game would do better.

  13. #633
    Quote Originally Posted by ohwell View Post
    Man too bad those hearthstones have 1 hour cooldowns......oh wait....
    As if hearthing back to Oribos then having to fly all the way back to the nearest flight path to where you'd want to be going next is any better. Compared to... blowing the whistle and being at a flight path and then being able to fly to where you want to go.
    The most difficult thing for people to do is objectively look at something they don't like and be able to accept that it is not bad, that other people like it, and if it was changed to the way they'd like it that other people would not like it and want it changed back. The second most is to receive something they didn't want or ask for and be grateful for it, not immediately demand what they wanted instead.

  14. #634
    Quote Originally Posted by Dazu View Post
    Well reknown is only a few hours or maybe a few days to catchup depending on play time and if you have help to boost forward. At most you should be reknowned cap just doing callings and quests in 3 weeks max right now which would also earn you thousands of anima and tens of thousands of gold anyway for very little play time committment.
    Also seeing as flying is likely account wide you only need to do it on one character.
    it took me 4 weeks to get to 36. technically 38, as i have my weekly anima and souls quests still waiting to be turned in, but I was hoping to get 2 more renown so that i could hit 40 this week rather then next. so far, i have NOT been so lucky. no renown dropped for me in lfr, or dungeons and no calling so far offered it either.

    but... once again, we do not know how much renown will be required to finish the new covenant quest chain. even once all the quests are available rather then staggered at launch. wanna know how long it took me to get enough rep to fly in BFA? if you say 4 weeks, you'd be correct.

    so in my eyes? they may have a different name, but the grind required is virtually the same. potato potato.

  15. #635
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilfire View Post
    Once again flying will only be unlocked for already outdated content while being unavailable in the Maw and Korthia. This is Argus all over again. Next expansion MUST have flying in from the START and it must be usable EVERYWHERE.
    No one is tricked or surprised. If you are then you aren't well informed what so ever. This information was widely available since the first inceptions of Shadowlands by everyone. Except you apparently.

  16. #636
    Quote Originally Posted by cparle87 View Post
    As if hearthing back to Oribos then having to fly all the way back to the nearest flight path to where you'd want to be going next is any better. Compared to... blowing the whistle and being at a flight path and then being able to fly to where you want to go.
    If it's in the same zone, most of the places you can be short of the very depths of the elite areas, it's a VERY short ride to the flight path in Shadowlands. My point stands.

  17. #637
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilfire View Post
    Once again flying will only be unlocked for already outdated content while being unavailable in the Maw and Korthia. This is Argus all over again. Next expansion MUST have flying in from the START and it must be usable EVERYWHERE.
    Think the only place this will be he case is the new tbc they are bring out.

  18. #638
    Quote Originally Posted by Witchblade77 View Post
    it took me 4 weeks to get to 36. technically 38, as i have my weekly anima and souls quests still waiting to be turned in, but I was hoping to get 2 more renown so that i could hit 40 this week rather then next. so far, i have NOT been so lucky. no renown dropped for me in lfr, or dungeons and no calling so far offered it either.

    but... once again, we do not know how much renown will be required to finish the new covenant quest chain. even once all the quests are available rather then staggered at launch. wanna know how long it took me to get enough rep to fly in BFA? if you say 4 weeks, you'd be correct.

    so in my eyes? they may have a different name, but the grind required is virtually the same. potato potato.
    You can't use them to cheat the system. The cap is the cap. 40 is next week. You will not get any more renown with the 2 weeklies up and you're at 36 as you're caught up.

  19. #639
    Quote Originally Posted by ohwell View Post
    You can't use them to cheat the system. The cap is the cap. 40 is next week. You will not get any more renown with the 2 weeklies up and you're at 36 as you're caught up.
    ah, I see, guess I misunderstood when the cap of 40 was available. I thought it already was available for a while now. ah well, at least I'm caught up, so there's that? it was still a grind not too dissimilar to rep grind. I did the exact same things to get to this point that I did for rep back in BFA. and to unlock the covenants, I had to finish all the prerequisite stories... again just like in BFA. they gave it different name, but the grind for pathfinder is pretty much the same as it was for the last few expansions. so people who are all "its much easier/faster this time" not really. its the same.

  20. #640
    Quote Originally Posted by Devilyaki View Post
    Think the only place this will be he case is the new tbc they are bring out.
    Isle of Quel'danas still doesn't have flying on live.

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