Flying tricked AGAIN

[anon5123]

Did you ever consider that people skip the ground cuz they dont find it fun?

Maybe play a different game if you want everything to be instant gratification with no travel times. Seriously, if traveling 1-2 minutes is too much for you to handle, then you obviously do not enjoy MMORPGs and would be better off playing another game.

There's no point in designing intricate zone geography if players are just going to fly over everything and ignore it all.

[Trend]

Why are you surprised at all?

He is probably not surprised. He's a known troll who gets a rise out of pages of responses to stupid topics he invents. He does not engage in conversation, he just winds up the forum to watch it spin.

[SirCowdog]

There's no point in designing intricate zone geography if players are just going to fly over everything and ignore it all.

There is a point...if the geography includes reasons to land, and also reasons to fly.

The problem with your line of thinking is based on the assumption that only 2-dimensional design has any merit. What about caves? Buildings? Flying islands or fortresses. Hazards in mid-air that must be flown around, or even just giant freakin mountains, like stormpeaks.

We have to keep in mind that in a large part the desire to fly represents a VERY real aversion to the grounded content. And thus the solution is not to force players into what they dislike, but to ask what it is about the grounded content that players want to avoid, and make better open world content based on those answers. This is something blizzard stubbornly refuses to do by pushing this idea of their "vision" trumping all feedback.

Flight mechanics in wow ARE problematic. But mostly because of the overly-simplistic design of the grounded content. You can't just point the finger at one and say the other is fine. You have to address BOTH issues if the game is going to get better.

[Argorwal]

There is a point...if the geography includes reasons to land, and also reasons to fly.

The problem with your line of thinking is based on the assumption that only 2-dimensional design has any merit. What about caves? Buildings? Flying islands or fortresses. Hazards in mid-air that must be flown around, or even just giant freakin mountains, like stormpeaks.

We have to keep in mind that in a large part the desire to fly represents a VERY real aversion to the grounded content. And thus the solution is not to force players into what they dislike, but to ask what it is about the grounded content that players want to avoid, and make better open world content based on those answers. This is something blizzard stubbornly refuses to do by pushing this idea of their "vision" trumping all feedback.

Flight mechanics in wow ARE problematic. But mostly because of the overly-simplistic design of the grounded content. You can't just point the finger at one and say the other is fine. You have to address BOTH issues if the game is going to get better.

The answer on why people want to fly over stuff is they want everything in the game to be as easy and efficient as possible.

This extends to all aspects of the game too, not just unique to flying or world content. It extends to games beyond WoW as well.

[SirCowdog]

The answer on why people want to fly over stuff is they want everything in the game to be as easy and efficient as possible.

This extends to all aspects of the game too, not just unique to flying or world content. It extends to games beyond WoW as well.

I see this response repeated a lot, and I really don't feel that it's all that accurate. Mostly because it completely disregards all other explanations without ever considering that they might have merit.

People want the game to be fun. If what blizzard is offering on the ground is so NOT fun that people actively seek ways to avoid it...at what point is that a problem with the content instead of flying?

The use of flying to bypass content is a symptom of bad content. The fact that the base mechanics of flying exacerbate that symptom doesnt mean that removing flight solves the problem.

THAT is the very important point that gets ignored by saying "people just want things to be easy".

[Argorwal]

I see this response repeated a lot, and I really don't feel that it's all that accurate. Mostly because it completely disregards all other explanations without ever considering that they might have merit.

People want the game to be fun. If what blizzard is offering on the ground is so NOT fun that people actively seek ways to avoid it...at what point is that a problem with the content instead of flying?

The use of flying to bypass content is a symptom of bad content. The fact that the base mechanics of flying exacerbate that symptom doesnt mean that removing flight solves the problem.

THAT is the very important point that gets ignored by saying "people just want things to be easy".

It is that simple. If flying was available in dungeons to skip to the last boss people would do it because it’s the most efficient. Does that mean dungeons are just so not fun people don’t like them?

If you could pay 1g for a full mythic set people would. Maybe raiding just isn’t fun enough on its own that so many people would just opt to skip it?

Part of the game is engaging with the game using all the tools available. Having to cuff a hand around your back never feels good. Like when ICC and DS had the buffs/debuffs that were “optional toggles” that nobody ever removed.

I’m not even anti-flying, but I’m honest with myself in the reason and that is to skip as much as possible. It’s why I flew when available from TBC-now.

[SirCowdog]

It is that simple. If flying was available in dungeons to skip to the last boss people would do it because it’s the most efficient. Does that mean dungeons are just so not fun people don’t like them?

If you could pay 1g for a full mythic set people would. Maybe raiding just isn’t fun enough on its own that so many people would just opt to skip it?

Part of the game is engaging with the game using all the tools available. Having to cuff a hand around your back never feels good. Like when ICC and DS had the buffs/debuffs that were “optional toggles” that nobody ever removed.

I’m not even anti-flying, but I’m honest with myself in the reason and that is to skip as much as possible. It’s why I flew when available from TBC-now.

In a lot of ways, no, dealing with trash is not fun. That doesn't mean everything except the boss should be removed in the way that flight would do to a dungeon. But it DOES mean that Blizzard should rely less on pointless waves of trash and maybe start designing dungeons with different features and goals than just "Eradicate all enemies to zero hitpoints".

You're using an argument of extremis. Im not saying all obstacles should be removed. I'm simply saying that flight is a symptom that reveald a deeper flaw in the nature of Blizzard's current open world design.

Removing flight only forces players to suffer that flawed design. It doesn't actually improve the open world! And that's why it's a poor solution.

[RCA]

silly rabbit tricks are for kids...

[Xath]

Why even play the game at all at this point. If a few minutes of running bothers you so much.

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I very much doubt you can 'disprove' it.

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And that's part of the issue, they need to bring pvp servers back and ditch war mode, which is a failure.

It's actually not you just don't like that war mode is semi balanced so that you aren't doing 10 to 1 on a server like Illidan for horde or Sarg for Alliance which were "pvp servers" but so massively dominated by one faction they might as well have been pve.

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Blizzard: *does something they've always done*

OP: *OMG! Tricked again!*

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*laughs in Druid*

also

*laughs in hasn't done the Maw in weeks*

They actually haven't always done it. Until WoD flying was attained at max level for gold except cata where it was available from the previous max level for a fairly cheap amount.

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But you're not. Exploring the zones alone doesn't really mean you're truly used to the zones, let alone have you experienced the story of the covenants fully. Zones are more than just travel points.

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I mean, the Covenant campaign is not done in 9.0 tho. It's done in 9.1, when it climaxes to the Forces of Death Vs The Jailer within the Maw, especially the Sanctum of Domination. So, in a way...

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Navigating shit in Blades Edge while flying is Hell. What are you on about? lmao

You want to know what actually happens when I can't fly? On a non raid day I log on check if the daily is for bastion for an upgrade on hymnal which is beyond broken and if it isn't I log off and go do other stuff. I don't do any other dailies just the bastion one I do the maw weekly I don't even do the dailies anymore because it's just painful. It isn't fun and isn't good for the game the majority of people I play with are the same log on for raids and do M+ once or twice a week ignore all other content because it takes too long and isn't fun. With flight I would like knock out the dailies since the 2k gold would be worth it and that means I'm more likely to be on if someone wants to do something else. Flight leads to me staying on and actually playing the game outside of raids.

[Ragedaug]

You are playing an open world RPG/adventure game. If you resent the fact it involves travelling through an open world and struggle to navigate small hills or around enemies maybe you should question why you're playing WoW.

Thank you for agreeing with me. Now the question goes to whether or not Blizzard wants their players questioning whether they should be playing this game.

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my biggest problem with not having flying in these never xpack is that most zones are done in such a way that its just dreadful to run around, other xpack that had flying like TBC, WotLK, Cata and Mop, they're not bad to run around in ground mount,

we have a zone that is mostly designed for flying but we cant fly, and that sucks

This has been my complaint since WoD. Ever since the expansion where Blizzard first published the thought of removing flying, they've been designing zones that make grounded travel extremely frustrating. How those two concepts were introduced in the same expansion is beyond me. "Lets stop them from flying in all current XPac content going forward, and while we are forcing them to be grounded, lets make the ground travel as frustrating as possible".

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The answer on why people want to fly over stuff is they want everything in the game to be as easy and efficient as possible.

This extends to all aspects of the game too, not just unique to flying or world content. It extends to games beyond WoW as well.

It's not about easy. Flight Paths are literally the easiest things in the game. I don't want them. I'd prefer the more difficult path of expending my energy controlling the flight on my mount. It's about efficiency. I only have x numbers of minutes to play the game. Do I want to waste my time riding to content?

There's nothing difficult about riding from one side of the zone to the other. If you think that is difficult, well I guess Blizzard found it's audience for who enjoys the challenge of riding a horse around their zones. For most of us, there's no challenge in riding a ground mount. It's pretty simple. It's because it's easy and simple that it's also boring. But I guess if you find riding your ground mounts as challenging, then I can see where it's more compelling for you. For the rest of us, it's just boring.

[cparle87]

i guess you missed the part where it was explained. you've clearly missed the thousands of pages and dozens of threads that disprove this as well. you are the real mvp bro.

People's opinions are not proof.

[Ragedaug]

how does flying make the world content more fun? you would still do the same wq just instead of runing (or flying via FP) to them you would fly on mount to them, i get its convenient and more effective, but how is it more "fun" is beyond my understanding

To add a illustration to how flying makes world content more fun. This is how I feel getting from WQ to WQ.

[Xath]

You go to a crap sandwich restaurant for 15 years, and every day they give you a crap sandwich.

Why are you surprised they just served you another crap sandwich?

It wasn't for the first decade of the restaurant's life

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"This is Argus all over again"

Always has been. While I've enjoyed the challenge, glad they've announced I'll be able to mount up in the Maw.

What challenge lol?

[Strawberry]

You're not getting flying at the start, because that trivialises questing and world pvp.

No one does world pvp outside of ganking. The amount of players who do that are not worth considering.

How does it trivialize questing? The quests are still there once flying is introduced. It's not like the quests magically move.

Flying worked fine from the start in previous expansions, there's no reason why it wouldn't work now.
It's like the rest of the design. Retarded as fuck, made to slow down players. Flying points connected in a retarded way, so you fly all over the zone instead going in a straight line, no mounting in the Maw, etc etc.
Just retarded game design choices to prolong our play time.

No, outside of slowing down the players and making them waste time in game, there's absolutely no reason not to include it from the beginning.

[Ermelloth]

Flying would not be needed if layout of few zones would not suck that much. I still tend to avoid visiting Bastion as much as possible - its a beyond horrible map to traverse, with flight points stupidly placed and tons of elevations so you need circling around stuff to get to your destination. Worst map in this expansion so far. Revendreth is easier for me just cause I'm Venthyr, so all these portals do help, otherwise, I believe, would also be messy.

[Kelduril]

No one does world pvp outside of ganking. The amount of players who do that are not worth considering.

How does it trivialize questing? The quests are still there once flying is introduced. It's not like the quests magically move.

Flying worked fine from the start in previous expansions, there's no reason why it wouldn't work now.
It's like the rest of the design. Retarded as fuck, made to slow down players. Flying points connected in a retarded way, so you fly all over the zone instead going in a straight line, no mounting in the Maw, etc etc.
Just retarded game design choices to prolong our play time.

No, outside of slowing down the players and making them waste time in game, there's absolutely no reason not to include it from the beginning.

Flying should have never been introduced period.

It's not like the quests magically move.

No but any difficulty goes out the window. Making your way to the quest objective tests your ability to conserve cooldowns and manage your pulls.

Jintha'Alor was a legendary quest back in Vanilla and if flying was in for it, it would be a joke.

[Strawberry]

Flying should have never been introduced period.



No but any difficulty goes out the window. Making your way to the quest objective tests your ability to conserve cooldowns and manage your pulls.

Jintha'Alor was a legendary quest back in Vanilla and if flying was in for it, it would be a joke.

Don't be silly. There's no difficulty for quests. You pick one, go to the zone, do it and turn in.

[Kelduril]

Don't be silly. There's no difficulty for quests. You pick one, go to the zone, do it and turn in.

Okay so make a character on Classic WoW and do some quests in zones like Jintha'Alor where mob density is going to stop you from running around like a headless chicken.

[cparle87]

To add a illustration to how flying makes world content more fun. This is how I feel getting from WQ to WQ.

Maybe be a less bad player who doesn't run through aggressive packs without any knowledge of how to strafe? Or buy the anti daze equipment. Or switch to tank spec when you're making long hauls. You choosing to make things as difficult as you can on yourself in order to push your agenda that things are difficult doesn't hold water.

[MasterOfNone]

People's opinions are not proof.

did i say opinions? you really don't pay attention very well for someone calling someone out. there are facts in those discussions. go read them. im not going to do your legwork just so you can hand waive like a real mmo screaming about proof.