Flying tricked AGAIN

[baskev]

Only if Blizzard continues to invest in world building that tries to pretend flight doesn't exist.

Yeah, because that will stop people asking for flying. Like a zone like the maw. Or many qeusts and caves we have no does not stop it. A busy roof top like ardenweil or caves like bastion will not stop it.

And they are not pretending it does not exist. Its just not a priority. Could they do a bit more? yeah. But then people will complain: its time gated we have not flying yet we can not reach it.

I get real tired of people acting as though the only way world building and exploration can happen is from the ground. It shows a distinct lack of imagination.

I am doing that? nope. Stop seeing things that are not there. So tired of that. People seeing/reading things that are not there.

Yes they could add more flying stuff. But if they do that it will become flying from point a to point b. And even if there is some ground stuff it will get ignored.
Why build the rest of the world if people are just going from point a to b ? Yes they can motivade it by doing quest etc and it would be cool if they added that.
But it still does not negated the point that its bad world building.

Because then most levels will look like a n64 mario level. some flying platforms. And while i think you are right that it could be a addition. Take per example nagrand with its flying rocks, those would be cool places for quest stuff etc.

And besides, every single dungeon and raid is already grounded. There's no harm in creating some of the outdoor zones, or parts of ever zone, flight-enabled from the beginning.

Yes, they could do 1 zone that is only or heavy flight. like the maw is heavy walking. All people will really like that. < sarcasm

But for real i think a anti maw zone could be fun. But again, it does not negate the problems other people have with it. ( some i agree with). Dive bombing for stuff, pvp in a unballanced realm share, it being just some floating boring islands. Not a real world building possible since there is no world. etc etc


Thank you btw. first person who responds with a real answer why they might need to do it from the start. You might be wrong in my opinion. But still thank you.

And let it be clear. I am not anti flying, i think the old time table of flying is to long of a wait.
But for me ( and others on this and other forums/forum threads). Some of the negatives outway the positives.
And we did classic and other expansions fine without flying. We do other games like this fine without flying.
And lets be real. If blizzard does it, people will still complain. Because the content is to boring because its just flying from a to b.
Or if they put in more tree's ( like duskwood) and stuff like that people will complain they can not easy fly through it of spot things.

But in the end my point in responding to this thread. The thread starter acts like he and other people like him where tricked. And that is just a false statement. blizzard did not trick them. They listened and made it easy ( and most likely) sooner to get flying. For the easy part with just renow is bs. whats next free gear, no more leveling. Its a mmo/mmorpg. Not fortnite.

[Ragedaug]

Maybe be a less bad player who doesn't run through aggressive packs without any knowledge of how to strafe? Or buy the anti daze equipment. Or switch to tank spec when you're making long hauls. You choosing to make things as difficult as you can on yourself in order to push your agenda that things are difficult doesn't hold water.

Sure. Maybe. If I'm the bad player you say I am, why would I want to get dazed and worry about strafing, etc., when I can just fly? I'm not sure how you figured telling me that the reason I want flying is because I'm bad would make me agree with you that grounded travel is better. You are just reinforcing my point.

With grounded travel, the story & game are about the journey. With flying travel, the story & game are about the quests at the end point. You may say "yeah, but some of us like the journey", and I'm OK with that. I've been consistent about saying I don't mind doing the journey once. But once I complete that journey, I don't want to keep reading chapters 1-3 again and again before every subsequent chapter in the book. I'm past that point, and just want to get there.

[cparle87]

Sure. Maybe. If I'm the bad player you say I am, why would I want to get dazed and worry about strafing, etc., when I can just fly? I'm not sure how you figured telling me that the reason I want flying is because I'm bad would make me agree with you that grounded travel is better. You are just reinforcing my point.

With grounded travel, the story & game are about the journey. With flying travel, the story & game are about the quests at the end point. You may say "yeah, but some of us like the journey", and I'm OK with that. I've been consistent about saying I don't mind doing the journey once. But once I complete that journey, I don't want to keep reading chapters 1-3 again and again before every subsequent chapter in the book. I'm past that point, and just want to get there.

But when someone uses intellectually dishonest memes to illustrate their biased point of view I can't not speak up.

[Witchblade77]

Maybe be a less bad player who doesn't run through aggressive packs without any knowledge of how to strafe? Or buy the anti daze equipment. Or switch to tank spec when you're making long hauls. You choosing to make things as difficult as you can on yourself in order to push your agenda that things are difficult doesn't hold water.

but it STILl feels like going through mud with all the unnecessary twists and turns and waiting for elevators and random tiny hill being unpassable, unless you go around it. I, a bad player - play a druid. I avoid as much combat as its druidishly possible, BY DESIGN. I stealth past it. it STILL doesn't make it any less mind-numbingly annoyingly too much travel.

[unbound]

Once again flying will only be unlocked for already outdated content while being unavailable in the Maw and Korthia. This is Argus all over again. Next expansion MUST have flying in from the START and it must be usable EVERYWHERE.

Sorry, but Blizz made their stance very clear with WoD. They don't want to put in the effort to design zones from the beginning to be flying complete. After being yelled at for months, Blizz caved and made zones flying complete after the fact (using the pathfinder achievement as cover).

Now that people have accepted their transparent BS, they have continued that approach ever since.

Blizz is simply not interested in providing a superior experience anymore. Since Cata (perhaps even in Wrath), they've shifted their view as a cash cow...which means that they put in the bare minimum of effort to maintain as many subscriptions as they can. Even though it would still be wildly profitable, they aren't going to double their spending on this game. It's all about financials in their world now.

And, no, this doesn't mean that the developers and middle managers are bad. They are simply not being given the resources they need to provide high quality anymore.

[qwerty123456]

No, flying should be removed.

Why? Who ground runs an entire zone if they got the flight paths. Manual flying at least has people experience more of the zone then afking while on flight paths to the next world quest area.

[cparle87]

but it STILl feels like going through mud with all the unnecessary twists and turns and waiting for elevators and random tiny hill being unpassable, unless you go around it. I, a bad player - play a druid. I avoid as much combat as its druidishly possible, BY DESIGN. I stealth past it. it STILL doesn't make it any less mind-numbingly annoyingly too much travel.

I really can't believe the playerbase has gotten so unbelievably spoiled that navigating the world is declared "unnecessary." Why bother playing an mmo? Just play a lobby game already.

[Witchblade77]

I really can't believe the playerbase has gotten so unbelievably spoiled that navigating the world is declared "unnecessary." Why bother playing an mmo? Just play a lobby game already.

I really cannot beleive that you concider getting from point a to point be by the way of zig zagging around the small hill, or waiting for the elevator to come up or down or afking on a taxi - a legitimate, valuable mmo content. this is not navigating or exploring the world. its time sinks that are there for the sake of taking up more time. nothing more nothing less.

[Lei]

Only if Blizzard continues to invest in world building that tries to pretend flight doesn't exist.

I get real tired of people acting as though the only way world building and exploration can happen is from the ground. It shows a distinct lack of imagination.

And besides, every single dungeon and raid is already grounded. There's no harm in creating some of the outdoor zones, or parts of ever zone, flight-enabled from the beginning.

There's that WQ in ardenweald where you have to pick up temporary faerie wings and get the moth pupas from the trees. When I did it first, I was like "oh, ok, this is cool!" (you could actually fly out from the subzone and fly everywhere in ardenweald, it was on you for a minute or 2 I think, was fixed in days). But then how many times I have to complete these before I can say "gimme my flying back!". (And then of course you can't even complete that wq on a flying mount because you have to pick stuff and we have no Blacksmithing stirrups in Shadowlands so in itself is the perfect "immune to flight WQ)

[cparle87]

I really cannot beleive that you concider getting from point a to point be by the way of zig zagging around the small hill, or waiting for the elevator to come up or down or afking on a taxi - a legitimate, valuable mmo content. this is not navigating or exploring the world. its time sinks that are there for the sake of taking up more time. nothing more nothing less.

I never said it was content, you're putting words in my mouth. And you're wrong, it is navigating the world. As I said before there's plenty of lobby games where you can sit in a chat channel until your group is ready, have a loading screen, and be right there. Sounds to me those are more up your alley. It's a shame that as an mmo-rpg becomes more mainstream it attracts players that actually hate the world.

- - - Updated - - -

There's that WQ in ardenweald where you have to pick up temporary faerie wings and get the moth pupas from the trees. When I did it first, I was like "oh, ok, this is cool!" (you could actually fly out from the subzone and fly everywhere in ardenweald, it was on you for a minute or 2 I think, was fixed in days). But then how many times I have to complete these before I can say "gimme my flying back!". (And then of course you can't even complete that wq on a flying mount because you have to pick stuff and we have no Blacksmithing stirrups in Shadowlands so in itself is the perfect "immune to flight WQ)

Land on the branch and it'll still be in reach. I've tested that. Or be a druid. Not sure what Sircowdog is getting at about the world building. Does he want places like Skettis we can't get to till we can fly?

[Bee76]

Once again flying will only be unlocked for already outdated content while being unavailable in the Maw and Korthia. This is Argus all over again. Next expansion MUST have flying in from the START and it must be usable EVERYWHERE.

Bussiness as usual. Its a miracle that soon all will be allowed to mount in maw, Flying in maw wouldnt fit the theme of the zone.

But yes i would prefer a system like in mop for the next xpac. You have to level your first char on ground, then u can buy a book für flying for your mainchar. And you can buy that für every toon aswell. make those books expensive, but give the people the choice if they wanna wait for pathfinder or invest some high amounts of gold for flying.

[Sylv_]

Imagine compelling content where flying only enhanced it? Bring back the large cliffs, floating island, and the like.
Flying could actually enhance this stagnant magnet ground bullshit.

'Players skip our hard work!!!!" So.. Make sure your amazing work isn't skipped by not making linear ground.

JFC, not hard.

[SirCowdog]

@baskev @Lei

There's that WQ in ardenweald where you have to pick up temporary faerie wings and get the moth pupas from the trees. When I did it first, I was like "oh, ok, this is cool!" (you could actually fly out from the subzone and fly everywhere in ardenweald, it was on you for a minute or 2 I think, was fixed in days). But then how many times I have to complete these before I can say "gimme my flying back!". (And then of course you can't even complete that wq on a flying mount because you have to pick stuff and we have no Blacksmithing stirrups in Shadowlands so in itself is the perfect "immune to flight WQ)

As has been stated countless times: The base mechanics of flying mounts would really need to change before Blizzard could have a real shot at creating an open world with flight.

That doesn't mean they shouldn't try. Or that it's impossible to make a good world with flying. It just takes more work than Blizzard is willing to do because Ion or other management/leadership dictates otherwise. They'd rather keep churning out the same formula of grounded worlds, and take away movement(and subsequently force players to re-grind it) like they did with The Maw.

It's pretty damn transparent that Blizzard's motivations for restricting flight have NOTHING to do with making a better game world. I just find it sad and disappointing that there are still a LOT of people who think it does. (Not you Lei, just in general)

[quras]

Imagine compelling content where flying only enhanced it? Bring back the large cliffs, floating island, and the like.
Flying could actually enhance this stagnant magnet ground bullshit.

'Players skip our hard work!!!!" So.. Make sure your amazing work isn't skipped by not making linear ground.

JFC, not hard.

Yea but that requires effort and building a world that takes into account flying and well, blizzard is no longer capable of doing that. they would rather just sell you the flying mounts relevant to the current content and NOT let you actually use them in the current relevant content.

[Lei]

I never said it was content, you're putting words in my mouth. And you're wrong, it is navigating the world. As I said before there's plenty of lobby games where you can sit in a chat channel until your group is ready, have a loading screen, and be right there. Sounds to me those are more up your alley. It's a shame that as an mmo-rpg becomes more mainstream it attracts players that actually hate the world.

- - - Updated - - -



Land on the branch and it'll still be in reach. I've tested that. Or be a druid. Not sure what Sircowdog is getting at about the world building. Does he want places like Skettis we can't get to till we can fly?

Uhm, what? I don't have problems with the WQ, I'm saying it's actually the perfect world quest because once you get flying, it won't change a thing, you'll still have use faerie wings to complete it. So flying does not affect it at all.

[Dhrizzle]

its time sinks that are there for the sake of taking up more time. nothing more nothing less.

Well that defines video games in general...

[MatthewOU2015]

Hardcore MMO championers are full force today

[Eggroll]

Thank the 'No flying' crowd. I cant imagine Blizzard ever going back to Flying in from the start. Why you thought this was ever going to be the case is one of the mysteries of the universe. Blizzard didn't trick you, you did that to yourself.

I'm not really sure what the OP is on about. Since Cata we had no-fly zones in every xpac.
Cata: Firelands
MoP: Isle of Thunder, Isle of Giants, Timeless Isle
Legion: Argus
WoD and BfA being the exception

I'm ok with not being able to fly in certain areas. I'm not ok with not being able to use a mount.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

I'm not really sure what the OP is on about. Since Cata we had no-fly zones in every xpac.
Cata: Firelands
MoP: Isle of Thunder, Isle of Giants, Timeless Isle
Legion: Argus
WoD and BfA being the exception

I'm ok with not being able to fly in certain areas. I'm not ok with not being able to use a mount.

TBC as well had it. The zone Sunwell is in was no flying. Of course the starting zones for the new races as well but I won't count them. Really EVERY expansion had zones that flying wasn't allowed.

[Eggroll]

TBC as well had it. The zone Sunwell is in was no flying. Of course the starting zones for the new races as well but I won't count them. Really EVERY expansion had zones that flying wasn't allowed.

True, I totally forgot about those in TBC

Although none come to mind for BfA and WoD.