Flying tricked AGAIN

[Askyl]

Define need, though.

I need it to have fun in the world, and games should be fun. I can technically play the game without it, but I don't have fun that way, so it doesn't really fufill the purpose of a game then.

Since I like instanced content, I make it work by skipping almost all world content until flying is added, but it has severely diminished my enjoyment of the game compared to earlier expacs with flying at launch, and if I ever quit raiding, I'll have no reason to stick around.

If you need flying for wow to be fun, i really think another game would do better.

[cparle87]

Man too bad those hearthstones have 1 hour cooldowns......oh wait....

As if hearthing back to Oribos then having to fly all the way back to the nearest flight path to where you'd want to be going next is any better. Compared to... blowing the whistle and being at a flight path and then being able to fly to where you want to go.

[Witchblade77]

Well reknown is only a few hours or maybe a few days to catchup depending on play time and if you have help to boost forward. At most you should be reknowned cap just doing callings and quests in 3 weeks max right now which would also earn you thousands of anima and tens of thousands of gold anyway for very little play time committment.
Also seeing as flying is likely account wide you only need to do it on one character.

it took me 4 weeks to get to 36. technically 38, as i have my weekly anima and souls quests still waiting to be turned in, but I was hoping to get 2 more renown so that i could hit 40 this week rather then next. so far, i have NOT been so lucky. no renown dropped for me in lfr, or dungeons and no calling so far offered it either.

but... once again, we do not know how much renown will be required to finish the new covenant quest chain. even once all the quests are available rather then staggered at launch. wanna know how long it took me to get enough rep to fly in BFA? if you say 4 weeks, you'd be correct.

so in my eyes? they may have a different name, but the grind required is virtually the same. potato potato.

[Biggles Worth]

Once again flying will only be unlocked for already outdated content while being unavailable in the Maw and Korthia. This is Argus all over again. Next expansion MUST have flying in from the START and it must be usable EVERYWHERE.

No one is tricked or surprised. If you are then you aren't well informed what so ever. This information was widely available since the first inceptions of Shadowlands by everyone. Except you apparently.

[ohwell]

As if hearthing back to Oribos then having to fly all the way back to the nearest flight path to where you'd want to be going next is any better. Compared to... blowing the whistle and being at a flight path and then being able to fly to where you want to go.

If it's in the same zone, most of the places you can be short of the very depths of the elite areas, it's a VERY short ride to the flight path in Shadowlands. My point stands.

[Devilyaki]

Once again flying will only be unlocked for already outdated content while being unavailable in the Maw and Korthia. This is Argus all over again. Next expansion MUST have flying in from the START and it must be usable EVERYWHERE.

Think the only place this will be he case is the new tbc they are bring out.

[ohwell]

it took me 4 weeks to get to 36. technically 38, as i have my weekly anima and souls quests still waiting to be turned in, but I was hoping to get 2 more renown so that i could hit 40 this week rather then next. so far, i have NOT been so lucky. no renown dropped for me in lfr, or dungeons and no calling so far offered it either.

but... once again, we do not know how much renown will be required to finish the new covenant quest chain. even once all the quests are available rather then staggered at launch. wanna know how long it took me to get enough rep to fly in BFA? if you say 4 weeks, you'd be correct.

so in my eyes? they may have a different name, but the grind required is virtually the same. potato potato.

You can't use them to cheat the system. The cap is the cap. 40 is next week. You will not get any more renown with the 2 weeklies up and you're at 36 as you're caught up.

[Witchblade77]

You can't use them to cheat the system. The cap is the cap. 40 is next week. You will not get any more renown with the 2 weeklies up and you're at 36 as you're caught up.

ah, I see, guess I misunderstood when the cap of 40 was available. I thought it already was available for a while now. ah well, at least I'm caught up, so there's that? it was still a grind not too dissimilar to rep grind. I did the exact same things to get to this point that I did for rep back in BFA. and to unlock the covenants, I had to finish all the prerequisite stories... again just like in BFA. they gave it different name, but the grind for pathfinder is pretty much the same as it was for the last few expansions. so people who are all "its much easier/faster this time" not really. its the same.

[huth]

Think the only place this will be he case is the new tbc they are bring out.

Isle of Quel'danas still doesn't have flying on live.

[WowIsDead64]

This is core problem with current Wow. No matter, if changes are good or bad - at least devs listen to M+ guys and raiders. But in case of all other players feedback is simply ignored. As always, we don't demand too much. We are casual players and don't need too much content in order to be busy. Some really good compromise would bring us back to Wow immediately. At that point even enabling flying during leveling, that is already irrelevant, would be great. I would be busy leveling my alts for example. But Blizzard don't even want to discuss anything.

[chaoticcrono]

This is core problem with current Wow. No matter, if changes are good or bad - at least devs listen to M+ guys and raiders. But in case of all other players feedback is simply ignored. As always, we don't demand too much. We are casual players and don't need too much content in order to be busy. Some really good compromise would bring us back to Wow immediately. At that point even enabling flying during leveling, that is already irrelevant, would be great. I would be busy leveling my alts for example. But Blizzard don't even want to discuss anything.

blizzturd doesnt want our money, so we should just take our money elsewhere (I already have)

[WowIsDead64]

blizzturd doesnt want our money, so we should just take our money elsewhere (I already have)

I've learned my lesson. Will never buy xpack before x.2 again. It has been my rule since WOD, when all that no flying drama happened. I've broken this rule in SL and what? I have to wait till 9.2-ish anyway. So what was the point to buy SL at release? Only to allow Blizzard to say, that SL had new sales record?

[Koward]

This is core problem with current Wow. No matter, if changes are good or bad - at least devs listen to M+ guys and raiders. But in case of all other players feedback is simply ignored. As always, we don't demand too much. We are casual players and don't need too much content in order to be busy. Some really good compromise would bring us back to Wow immediately. At that point even enabling flying during leveling, that is already irrelevant, would be great. I would be busy leveling my alts for example. But Blizzard don't even want to discuss anything.

They listen to other players feedback. They just don't obey. Players do ridiculous demands all the time, if you would let them decide what should be in the game it would be way, way worse than how it currently is.

[WowIsDead64]

They listen to other players feedback. They just don't obey. Players do ridiculous demands all the time, if you would let them decide what should be in the game it would be way, way worse than how it currently is.

There is difference between obeying and discussing. We haven't even had any discussions since initial change back in patch 6.2. What is needed to be discussed - is real reasons, why flying is removed, because that "immersion" and "structure of content" are BS, and may be finding some better compromise. Blizzard don't want to discuss anything, because if their initial arguments are BS and they'd admit it, then they would need to do some changes and they don't want to do them. That's why they keep complete radio silence. It's better to just keep silence, if you aren't right, because anything you would say - would be used against you in court.

[Flarelaine]

I just don't get why this thread has carried on so long.

The same reason a new thread about flying pops up every few weeks. Some people still believe that making enough noise on a fan site will make Blizzard suddenly realize they were wrong all along.

[OMGTwitchTV]

The same reason a new thread about flying pops up every few weeks. Some people still believe that making enough noise on a fan site will make Blizzard suddenly realize they were wrong all along.

The only reason I even considered stepping foot back in here was to offer up a single acknowledgement and response to a Moderator. After all, you and your crew hold down the order on this site. In response, before I exit the premises once again: You hit the nail on the head. One or two people in the vocal minority rattling cages at the top of their lungs and shouting down other posters, or using buzzwords or large latin terms to make them look like the logical argument is just a fail all the way around. Blizz asks for feedback on Battle.Net official forums and in-game:

You can submit feedback and suggestions for improving World of Warcraft in one of two places:

- Our community forums.
- Using the in-game "Submit Feedback" option that is found on the Help menu.
- Press the Esc key to open the Game Menu, and click Support.
- Click Submit feedback or bug report.
- Click Submit a suggestion.
- Follow the guidelines on the submission form, and enter your suggestion.
- Click Submit.

My hat is off to you, and your crew, for sitting here day after day and allowing the Complaint Brigade to blow up the site while dancing their fine line of backhanded insults, and baiting others into getting themselves banned out of frustration. As for this topic, we're getting flight in 9.1, and we'll learn more when the PTR goes live. I just don't see any valuable discussion actually happening which is why I only returned to respond to this post. Have a great day out there, and thanks for chiming in.

[WowIsDead64]

The only reason I even considered stepping foot back in here was to offer up a single acknowledgement and response to a Moderator. After all, you and your crew hold down the order on this site. In response, before I exit the premises once again: You hit the nail on the head. One or two people in the vocal minority rattling cages at the top of their lungs and shouting down other posters, or using buzzwords or large latin terms to make them look like the logical argument is just a fail all the way around. Blizz asks for feedback on Battle.Net official forums and in-game:

You can submit feedback and suggestions for improving World of Warcraft in one of two places:

- Our community forums.
- Using the in-game "Submit Feedback" option that is found on the Help menu.
- Press the Esc key to open the Game Menu, and click Support.
- Click Submit feedback or bug report.
- Click Submit a suggestion.
- Follow the guidelines on the submission form, and enter your suggestion.
- Click Submit.

My hat is off to you, and your crew, for sitting here day after day and allowing the Complaint Brigade to blow up the site while dancing their fine line of backhanded insults, and baiting others into getting themselves banned out of frustration. As for this topic, we're getting flight in 9.1, and we'll learn more when the PTR goes live. I just don't see any valuable discussion actually happening which is why I only returned to respond to this post. Have a great day out there, and thanks for chiming in.

I wanted to answer to previous post, but then decided not to do it. But I'll do it now. There are several reasons, why we don't use this ways to provide feedback. Obvious one - because forums are paid. There others, but I won't tell them. And nobody knows, if ingame form even works. May be it's just placebo for venting? Funny thing, but it's much greater chance, that devs will read something on fan sites, than on their own official forums.

I've analyzed situation and here is my conclusion. I won't talk about immersion, because it's purely subjective. Yeah, it's great, when you experience something like entering Crossroads for the first time on a ground. In this case game indeed feels different from the ground. But this thing becomes old pretty fast. MMORPGs are about grind. And grind is routine. So, all that immersion becomes old after just few weeks.

But there is another thing - structure of content. And I've realized, that this argument is applicable to so called "sandbox" content only. So called, because "sandbox" means freedom, but in Wow it's even more limited, than any other kind of content. Because if we'd think about questing, then we'd realize, that questing itself allows devs to build certain structure of content. But it's their "sandbox" content, when they need some structure. They don't want you to just fly around Maw and kill one rare after another. You have choice to do, what you want. And if you would have full freedom of movement, you would do exactly this. That's why they put you on some rails. If you want to kill some rare X, you need to kill N mobs first.

Remember, what they told us, when they tried to justify removal of flying? They told us, that we needed to kill guards first and only then to kill their boss. Remember Tanaan's design? Rares are usually spawned at furthest corners of locations. If we wouldn't have flying, we would need to gnaw trough all that mobs in order to get to them.

But it brings several questions. Does all content have to be that "sandbox" one? And second one - if not all content is "sandbox", then why flying is removed from everywhere?

I personally hate this "sandbox" content. It has terrible design in Wow. It's just stupid to circle around location, while waiting for random spawns. It's not, what "sandbox" means in my understanding. "Sandbox" is about freedom of choice to approach content, how you prefer it. Not about choice to kill something without having any quest to do it. It's not choice. It's illusion of choice.

And about vocal minority. There are actually many pro-flyers. But not many of them have enough mental health to continue fighting.

[BlueAnon]

Once again flying will only be unlocked for already outdated content while being unavailable in the Maw and Korthia. This is Argus all over again. Next expansion MUST have flying in from the START and it must be usable EVERYWHERE.

Korthia? Should have called it Corgia, give everyone flying corgis.

Where is my corgi mount?

[WowIsDead64]

Simple thing - this thread is 33 pages longs and everything, we wanted to say, is already said. Yeah, this thread repeats itself. But only because there are people on the other side, who keep doing the same. Simple fact, that only few people answer here now, doesn't mean anything by itself. We are just people, for whom this topic is interesting and important. This topic was relevant, when there was small chance, that something would change in SL. That's, when many players were talking about it. But nothing has changed. We already know, when and how flying will be unlocked. Players, who want flying, simply have given up and stopped playing. Now they just wait till 9.1. Nothing to talk about. Blizzard ignore this topic anyway.