Since #nochanges is kaput, can we have Dual spec please?

[ClassicPeon]

I somehow doubt you mean what i mean.

Because the tank situation in Classic is in itself a rather unique case, as to a large part, neither tank gear nor spec is necessary to actually fulfill that role and the only viable tank class happens to be the by far best dps class to boot.

Yeah thats literally what i said in an earlier post.

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I'm pretty much done with you until you have the balls to respond to Kralljin's detailed and thorough post about the side effects of this change. I'm not going to entertain your lame cowardice anymore.

Mate you havent made an argument at any point. If you think you bailing the conversation is going to have any actual effect you are kidding yourself

[NineSpine]

Yeah thats literally what i said in an earlier post.

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Mate you havent made an argument at any point. If you think you bailing the conversation is going to have any actual effect you are kidding yourself

Still can't address Kralljin, eh? Too tough to read more than three sentences at once still?

[Kralljin]

Yeah thats literally what i said in an earlier post.

So, considering that unique situation will change in TBC, that will logically also affect the number of tanks you'll have available.

[Unholyground]

Yes to dual spec, but not like retail. make it so you can only change at a trainer.

I agree, keeping with the fantasy of classic style WoW it needs to have some travel behind it.

Side note: I plan on going Ret and still taking heroics, it is quite easy if you know how to tank, I just dip into redoubt and that is legit all you need, you just have to get good at seal twisting.

[Akka]

The only thing that a high number of people want is dual-spec. I didn't hear anything else which was supported by a high amount of ppl.

That a high number of people are too dumb to understand the consequences doesn't change the existence of said consequences.
Nearly every stupid change made to the game that ended up making it Shadowlands was supported by "a high number of people". And that's the point : you want the changes asked by "a high number of people" ? Play retail. Don't come on Classic to ask for said changes when the whole point of Classic is to not have them.

It's been said and said again. Stop being blindingly stubborn and just connect the two dots together.

I did play TBC and i liked it. I do play retail and like it. I want to play TBC.

No, you don't want to play TBC, you want to bastardize TBC. If you wanted to play TBC you wouldn't ask for something that goes against the design philosophy.

That ALSO has been been said and said again. Stop again being blindingly stubborn and just connect the two dots together.

You're just mindlessly repeating the same bullshit despite being corrected each time.

[m4xc4v413r4]

TBH I also wanted "aoe" loot (as it is on retail) to be on classic but even that was too much change for a lot of people, so I don't know how something this big would go through.

Dual spec would be fine, but only at the trainer IMO. Also it should either be a small fee always (so it's basically respec, but it saves your settings) OR they should charge 1000g like in wrath.

If it's just for the "saving your settings" I can just make an addon for that, I don't need the devs to do any changes.

[Akka]

"Last time we had TBC we ended up with Shadowlands. So if you want to follow that path just play retail. This time we want some changes so we dont end up in Shadowlands".

Do you see how cherry picking things without arguing or thinking leads to stupid conclusions?

Ah yeah, so to not end like SL, let's implement the same things than in SL. That's so smart.

[ClassicPeon]

So, considering that unique situation will change in TBC, that will logically also affect the number of tanks you'll have available.

Yes. We will have far fewer warrior tanks but more druids and paladins. I suspect that overall it will be harder to find a tank for a dungeon.

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That a high number of people are too dumb to understand the consequences doesn't change the existence of said consequences.
Nearly every stupid change made to the game that ended up making it Shadowlands was supported by "a high number of people". And that's the point : you want the changes asked by "a high number of people" ? Play retail. Don't come on Classic to ask for said changes when the whole point of Classic is to not have them.

It's been said and said again. Stop being blindingly stubborn and just connect the two dots together.

No, you don't want to play TBC, you want to bastardize TBC. If you wanted to play TBC you wouldn't ask for something that goes against the design philosophy.

That ALSO has been been said and said again. Stop again being blindingly stubborn and just connect the two dots together.

You're just mindlessly repeating the same bullshit despite being corrected each time.

Stop putting words in other peoples mouths dude. You have already been shown once that you are wrong

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Ah yeah, so to not end like SL, let's implement the same things than in SL. That's so smart.

Does SL suck because we can change spec in your opinion? Or is it because mythic +0 is too hard for you?(its the 2nd one)

[NineSpine]

Yes. We will have far fewer warrior tanks but more druids and paladins. I suspect that overall it will be harder to find a tank for a dungeon.

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Stop putting words in other peoples mouths dude. You have already been shown once that you are wrong

Can you reply to Kralljin's post yet? It was an excellent summary of the design issues this would cause, and it looks increasingly desperate the longer you refuse to respond to it.

[keelr]

You're just mindlessly repeating the same bullshit despite being corrected each time.

You don't know what you are talking about. You don't know anything about me, but because i want a change u assume that i want to make tbc a retail like game. Very wrong. Funny part is that in this entire thread noone could bring up a reason why dualspec would be bad that stood its stand.

All you can see in front of your eyes is that your precious game is broken into pieces if a small change is implemented. ITS NOT A BIG DEAL, but it makes so much things possible for people.

TBC is TBC and TBC Classic is TBC Classic. As shown with Classic, there are some required changes to be made to make the game stand in 2021. Imagine if classic wouldnt have had the stupid spell batch or worldbuffs wouldnt have worked in raid.

Once you say a reasonable con against dualspec, i might consider argueing with you, but all the toxicity you included in your last post just makes me feel like you won't be able to put up an arguement.

[erifwodahs]

These are two very different games with very different design principles. You want to undermine a design principles completely for convenience, so it asbolutely is like asking the mexican restaurant to make you piergoies because walking to the polish restaurant is inconvenient.

No it's not, you just lack a reason and critical thinking. Every argument of yours is twisted and turned from something else to fit your narrative.
Tank/Healer issue is not a big deal? Oh boy. You have not played classic then. Why do you even argue about something you did not even play. Also let me remind you that there will be 10 man raiding and HC dungeons which will require tanks too. I mean I do understand it is hard for you to understand something which is not sucking your own cock, but please, try.

To explain that to you: We will need more tanks and healers. Just in case it's still too hard. Now go ahead and reply to that about how we should play retail.

[NineSpine]

You don't know what you are talking about. You don't know anything about me, but because i want a change u assume that i want to make tbc a retail like game. Very wrong. Funny part is that in this entire thread noone could bring up a reason why dualspec would be bad that stood its stand.

All you can see in front of your eyes is that your precious game is broken into pieces if a small change is implemented. ITS NOT A BIG DEAL, but it makes so much things possible for people.

TBC is TBC and TBC Classic is TBC Classic. As shown with Classic, there are some required changes to be made to make the game stand in 2021. Imagine if classic wouldnt have had the stupid spell batch or worldbuffs wouldnt have worked in raid.

Once you say a reasonable con against dualspec, i might consider argueing with you, but all the toxicity you included in your last post just makes me feel like you won't be able to put up an arguement.

Kralljin posted a dissertation on the downsides a page or two back. You should respond to that.

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No it's not, you just lack a reason and critical thinking. Every argument of yours is twisted and turned from something else to fit your narrative.
Tank/Healer issue is not a big deal? Oh boy. You have not played classic then. Why do you even argue about something you did not even play. Also let me remind you that there will be 10 man raiding and HC dungeons which will require tanks too. I mean I do understand it is hard for you to understand something which is not sucking your own cock, but please, try.

To explain that to you: We will need more tanks and healers. Just in case it's still too hard. Now go ahead and reply to that about how we should play retail.

BC didn't burn down in 2007 because of a lack of tanks and healers. It's not a big issue, at all.

[erifwodahs]

BC didn't burn down in 2007 because of a lack of tanks and healers. It's not a big issue, at all.

I mean world buffs was not a problem in Vanilla WoW or TBC did not burn down for LW drums either! Also TBC did not burn down with most of the raids being out on launch too!

[RobertMugabe]

TBH I also wanted "aoe" loot (as it is on retail) to be on classic but even that was too much change for a lot of people, so I don't know how something this big would go through.



If it's just for the "saving your settings" I can just make an addon for that, I don't need the devs to do any changes.

Nope, the API doesn't allow automatically setting talents

[NineSpine]

I mean world buffs was not a problem in Vanilla WoW or TBC did not burn down for LW drums either! Also TBC did not burn down with most of the raids being out on launch too!

World buffs weren't used in vanilla the way they are in classic, and drums would cause a similar issue. In fact, you are making my argument for me: This isn't vanilla tbc. This is classic tbc, and we shouldn't assume problems are going to arise such as some dramatic, debilitating tank shortage, until it actually happens. Fundamentally altering the game to prevent hypothetical problems isn't a good idea.

[Kralljin]

I suspect that overall it will be harder to find a tank for a dungeon.

And why exactly did you then feel the urge to point out how difficult it will be to find a healer?

[ClassicPeon]

And why exactly did you then feel the urge to point out how difficult it will be to find a healer?

it being difficult to find a tank doesnt mean its going to be less difficult to find a healer?

Stuff like reputation farming, BOP profession recipes, much longer and harder attuments for raids and much more elite quests means playing a healer outside of dungeons is going to suck more then it did in classic, even with alts

[erifwodahs]

World buffs weren't used in vanilla the way they are in classic, and drums would cause a similar issue. In fact, you are making my argument for me: This isn't vanilla tbc. This is classic tbc, and we shouldn't assume problems are going to arise such as some dramatic, debilitating tank shortage, until it actually happens. Fundamentally altering the game to prevent hypothetical problems isn't a good idea.

Fundamentally altering, sigh. Well, did you make a forum post about how raid release stagger fundamentally changes the way people would be approaching content? I mean, it's not hard to go and see old classic threads about lack of tanks and how tanks charge money for tanking in classic.
Add HC dungeons to that, 10 man raids and oh boy, if you can't see that coming... I just need to put a note so I can come back and rub this in your face 20 hours after TBC release.

[Kralljin]

it being difficult to find a tank doesnt mean its going to be less difficult to find a healer?

I said:

No, it won't, at least in comparison to tanks.

It doesn't mean you'll drown in a sea of healers, but if i had to choose between a tank or a healer, i'd always take the tank first.

Stuff like reputation farming, BOP profession recipes, much longer and harder attuments for raids and much more elite quests means playing a healer outside of dungeons is going to suck more then it did in classic, even with alts

-Relevant Rep farms are done in dugeons, where being a main spec healer is hardly a disadvantage
-Most BoP recipes drop from dungeon bosses
-You want to tell me that a ~3 questchains, which can be done with a guildmate (because they need to be the attunement as well) is a massive hurdle for healers?

[ClassicPeon]

I said:


It doesn't mean you'll drown in a sea of healers, but if i had to choose between a tank or a healer, i'd always take the tank first.

-Relevant Rep farms are done in dugeons, where being a main spec healer is hardly a disadvantage
-Most BoP recipes drop from dungeon bosses
-You want to tell me that a ~3 questchains, which can be done with a guildmate (because they need to be the attunement as well) is a massive hurdle for healers?

Aldor/scryer
Sporeggar
Mag'har/Kurenai
Netherwing

Getting the recipes isnt the only problem mate. As a druid/shaman you need skin as an example.

The prequests and elite quests in outland is far, far more then 3 questchains