Right-wing extremists responsible for majority of deadly terrorist attacks last year

[Felya]

you really dont think there are nuanced differences between people who join IS, people who join a skullmask group, people who join the militia movement and people who join boko haram or azov?

The guy said they have nothing in-common... do they have nothing in-common or are there nuanced differences?

[PosPosPos]

You're saying all violent crime is right-wing terrorism.

Oh, it's Shadowferal and a strawman based off completely missing the point and context again. The context is talking about right-wing terrorism and terrorists, because left-wing terrorism is like a drop in the ocean compared to the former.

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The guy said they have nothing in-common... do they have nothing in-common or are there nuanced differences?

Maybe one of them dyed their body hair and the rest didn't, very important to note.

[jonnysensible]

Sure, we treat them differently because it's one thing to enforce the law in a nation's own soil, but to do it in another nation is a whole different ball game.

That doesn't mean their underlying ideology is so special from each other, which is what you are arguing here.

AQ, ISIS and the Talibans ideology, capability and goals are vastly different. Rapewaffen, Rise Above Movement and Qanon grandmas ideology, capability and goals are vastly different.

There is no underlying unifying ideology. 'All the groups are anti semetic so they are the same!' isnt the big brain thought you think it is.

[Felya]

There are always going to be overlaps as im sure you and I have overlaps but this is simply not the case. These are completely distinct groups, with their own long histories, individual pulls and arcs which is why they are studied separately, and policed separately.

People are not saying they are the same in the regard of history, but ideological location on the political scale. I think a lot of the actions of Middle East terrorist and Western, is defined by very similar conservative rhetoric, where if the white nationalist was actually as oppressed and downtrotten as Middle East terrorist... the only difference would be one side screaming for Allah and the other alternating Jesus and Trump...

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There is no underlying unifying ideology.

No one is saying they are unified in any way...

[PosPosPos]

AQ, ISIS and the Talibans ideology, capability and goals are vastly different. Rapewaffen, Rise Above Movement and Qanon grandmas ideology, capability and goals are vastly different.

Ya, they are so different you can only repeat it ad nauseam but can't point out exactly why alleged differences are so important in your book.

There is no underlying unifying ideology. 'All the groups are anti semetic so they are the same!' isnt the big brain thought you think it is.

Because it's so big brain for you to nitpick about what skin colour your selection of right-wing terrorists choose to discriminate against as the sort of difference that matters.

[Felya]

Maybe one of them dyed their body hair and the rest didn't, very important to note.

Your argument takes the comparison too far...

I am disagreeing with EVErYoNe!!!!!!! lol

[Shadowferal]

El Chapo doesn't make the grade...

[PosPosPos]

Your argument takes the comparison too far...

Compared to "but they live in different places", "but they discriminate different races" and "but one is more powerful than the other", at least gossiping about their difference in eyeliner colour of choice is more interesting.

[Felya]

Ya, they are so different you can only repeat it ad nauseam but can't point out exactly why alleged differences are so important in your book.

For me... The vast majority of White Nationalist terrorist are based on imagined oppression and strife. Then there is also state sponsorship and far closer community of middle eastern terrorism, necessitated by war and real struggle to survive.

Edit: One side does it because they have nothing to lose and are in a desperate state. The other would be distracted from their actions, by a brand new PlayStation 5...

[PosPosPos]

For me... The vast majority of White Nationalist terrorist are based on imagined oppression and strife. Then there is also state sponsorship and far closer community of middle eastern terrorism, necessitated by war and real struggle to survive.

When people are delusional enough, it's about as close to the truth for them as it gets.

I really could hardly care if right-wingers truly undergo oppression or strife or whatever, especially when it's self-inflicted in either case.

[Felya]

I really could hardly care if right-wingers truly undergo oppression or strife or whatever, especially when it's self-inflicted in either case.

They are not oppressed... in US, they are the ruling party... they already have what they are terrorizing for...

Edit: The hardest thing in this argument, is showing the similarities and differences, without downplaying the actions of each. Saying Middle East terrorist are oppressed, feels icky and implies justification of the violence. While calling right wing oppression completely imagined, downplays the very title of the thread.

It’s not an easy comparison, because of what’s involved in the comparison. You inevitably will seem like you favor one over the other, by simply stating differences. It’s icky...

[PosPosPos]

They are not oppressed... in US, they are the ruling party... they already have what they are terrorizing for...

Edit: The hardest thing in this argument, is showing the similarities and differences, without downplaying the actions of each. Saying Middle East terrorist are oppressed, feels icky and implies justification of the violence. While calling right wing oppression completely imagined, downplays the very title of the thread.

It’s not an easy comparison, because of what’s involved in the comparison. You inevitably will seem like you favor one over the other, by simply stating differences. It’s icky...

What I meant was, whether or not that oppression exists or it's just a byproduct of a professional victim's delusions, it's still self-inflicted in either case.

[Felya]

What I meant was, whether or not that oppression exists or it's just a byproduct of a professional victim's delusions, it's still self-inflicted in either case.

That’s where a bit of irony comes in... You can’t say that about both, because one of the idols of the right in US, Reagan, inflicted the damage that if not caused terrorists, it sure as hell put US in the crosshairs that were squarely pointed at Britain before.

Edit: Before 80s, death to Britain was far more common chant, than anything to do with US. Oil crisis, shmoil crisis... British Petroleum was the baddie going after their oil, when they get kicked out... we push Exxon in...

Edit 2: It’s why Gadsden flag is so appropriate for far right... Their less extreme brethren cause the very issues that extremes then amplify and blame on everyone else... it’s just a snake, eating it’s own tail...

Edit 3: Think about it for just a sec... can you imagine a culture war in the 80s or 90s, where evangelicals join the far right, in decrying the desexualization of cartoon characters. If you want more sex on TV, your enemy is hiding within your ranks.

[Shadowferal]

Edit: The hardest thing in this argument, is showing the similarities and differences, without downplaying the actions of each. Saying Middle East terrorist are oppressed, feels icky and implies justification of the violence. While calling right wing oppression completely imagined, downplays the very title of the thread.
It’s not an easy comparison, because of what’s involved in the comparison. You inevitably will seem like you favor one over the other, by simply stating differences. It’s icky...

Ya.. Misery and desperation however can be factors in creating monsters. And I don't think I can go any further with that point before understanding and sympathy becomes an alignment.

[Mihalik]

AQ, ISIS and the Talibans ideology, capability and goals are vastly different. Rapewaffen, Rise Above Movement and Qanon grandmas ideology, capability and goals are vastly different.

There is no underlying unifying ideology. 'All the groups are anti semetic so they are the same!' isnt the big brain thought you think it is.

You are too focused on the rhetoric of these groups rather than core ideological views.

Right wing extremism usually seeks a "return" to some "time before" when "things were better".

They seek to restore certain power structures, these power structures typically have religious, racial, ethnic, (yes, racism and ethnic discrimination exists in even among Muslims extremists), and gender related undertones.

Furthermore they will willingly and eagerly use violence to achieve their objectives as they feel the exercise of violence to be empowering.

Within this framework American fascists, Qloons etc and ISIS jihadists might actually mutually hate each other, but you know who they hate more?

Gays. Women. Normies. Progressives. Scientists. Trans people. Minorities (whichever minority they have close on hand that they can hate on). Artists. Double triple hate the artists that happen to fall into multiple of the previous categories.

[Dezerte]

Islamic terrorists are right-wing in nature and you can find more commonalities between them and right-wing terrorists than you can with left-wing terrorists, but they are still different and it sometimes makes sense to differentiate them depending on the context.

[Muzjhath]

Islamic terrorists are right-wing in nature and you can find more commonalities between them and right-wing terrorists than you can with left-wing terrorists, but they are still different and it sometimes makes sense to differentiate them depending on the context.

It makes absolute sense to differentiate them from a security PoV as you need different tools with different groups.
An internal network is different than a fully domestic.

Doesn't change how the core ideological ideas behind most Islamic terrorism and AQ, ISIS and other Salafist groups are in most ways the same as the white movements within the US.
With them often recruiting from the same population type.

They just paint with different shades

[Endus]

They're different groups, with some common threads. The issue here is nomenclature. "Right-wing terrorism" should be a wide bubble that wholly encapsulates Islamic terrorism and American domestic terrorism, both. With a lack of a proper label for said American domestic terrorism (and thus, my attempt to create one here for the sake of discussion), the label for the bigger bubble gets used, but I'd argue that's improper.

Honestly, it's not that different from the "real American" horseshit, where they try and repurpose a broad label ("American") to mean some narrow subset ("white conservative bigoted Americans"), with an implicit argument that anyone else does not fit that label, much like here, where people are trying to argue that ubertraditionalist conservative religious extremists are both right-wing in one case (American domestic terrorists) and not in another (Islamic terrorism).

Do I agree that there are distinctions to be drawn between American domestic terrorism and Islamic terrorism? Sure. Are they both right-wing terrorism? Also sure. Do they have commonalities? Obviously. Are there also differences? Yarp. That shouldn't be particularly controversial.

[downnola]

Do I agree that there are distinctions to be drawn between American domestic terrorism and Islamic terrorism? Sure. Are they both right-wing terrorism? Also sure. Do they have commonalities? Obviously. Are there also differences? Yarp. That shouldn't be particularly controversial.

Yeah, I don't get the controversy here. Maybe some right-wingers just want to argue in bad faith and claim Islamic terrorism is left-wing so they have something to point to? A Venn diagram is more useful here than just black and white labeling.

[Santti]

Yeah, I don't get the controversy here. Maybe some right-wingers just want to argue in bad faith and claim Islamic terrorism is left-wing so they have something to point to? A Venn diagram is more useful here than just black and white labeling.

I think it's because they just don't like the comparison. Y'all Qaeda might not be suicide-piloting planes to sky scrapers, but are more than ready to get a murderous insurrection going with a little nudge.