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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Th3Scourge View Post
    Unless you're pushing 23+ keys this is a pointless discussion. It's perfectly reasonable that people pushing the highest keys would need to bring as much utility as possible.

    You're weekly 15 will be fine with any comp...
    Except it's not a pointless discussion. Yes, your weekly 15 would be fine with most comps. However, the community's perspective matters a tonne. When things like DPS warriors are known by the entire community to bring way less utility than other classes, or certain specs are known to be 15-20% behind (or more in AoE, etc.), then nobody is going to give them a chance over someone playing a meta spec in PuGs.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matthias View Post
    I've had plenty of success with off meta classes. Point is that when you're trying to maximize your chance of success with strangers, the more tools they bring to the table the better. I mean Boomkins with their burst and treants can just nullify an entire pack. Mages Combust can annihilate everything. Meanwhile Hunters do well....everything? Only time I seek out a DPS Warrior when I need a Venthyr, boom utility.
    And even if you want a venthyr, why bring a warrior when you can bring a resto shaman or Hpal? Both of which are meta picks, where venthyr is either the best or 2nd best covenant in m+.

    Or if you want you can grab a VDH who can also go venthyr with only minor downsides (Though in your case as a tank yourself, you can't)

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by TheAld View Post
    Except it's not a pointless discussion. Yes, your weekly 15 would be fine with most comps. However, the community's perspective matters a tonne. When things like DPS warriors are known by the entire community to bring way less utility than other classes, or certain specs are known to be 15-20% behind (or more in AoE, etc.), then nobody is going to give them a chance over someone playing a meta spec in PuGs.
    I get the meta perception but it really is a pointless discussion because 1. you can't change it unless you remove the ability to form groups and 2. it's not going to stop you timing a key.

  4. #24
    Even for a meta class it's still hard to get grouped for 15 because there is so many dps tagging for so few tank. I don't know what blizzard can do about that

  5. #25
    No matter how much you balance things, there will always be the best combination of classes/skills/whatever.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Matthias View Post
    I've had plenty of success with off meta classes. Point is that when you're trying to maximize your chance of success with strangers, the more tools they bring to the table the better. I mean Boomkins with their burst and treants can just nullify an entire pack. Mages Combust can annihilate everything. Meanwhile Hunters do well....everything? Only time I seek out a DPS Warrior when I need a Venthyr, boom utility.
    I like 1 melee in the group. It's good to have 2x short CD kicks.

    But yeah, rogue or dks are the better melees to bring.

    I don't care if we bring a warr on 15 it doesn't matter as long as dps is enough and kicks are good we time the run.

    But sometimes ppl come with 2k io in your group and miss most of their kicks and then you wonder where they got the rating from.

    My best runs are actually with ppl 1200-1300 rating. There I saw many almost flawless runs. All spells kicked and great dps.

    But rating doesn't mean much. 1500+ means he play good in a group. Doesn't mean he will fit well into your group.

    And more and more bad ppl reach 1300 rating. You can have ppl with 3k dps in your group that have 1300 rating.
    Last edited by GnomeEU; 2021-02-21 at 03:15 PM.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    They excel in situations that are hard to see in aggregate data which is exactly why I said what I said the way that I said it. But sure, let's all pretend that R Druids are mediocre raid healers with no purpose because, well, fuck Blizzard or something.
    The thing is - the 3 meta healers largely excel in the exact same situations. When the raid drops to low health, Shaman throughput gets buffed significantly through their mastery, and in situations where people are at risk of dying, and the damage reduction/effective health increase from absorbs becomes more and more important. Those things are more relevant/important than any situation where HoT healing becomes more effective due to high raid damage.

    Yes, RDruids (and MW and HPriests outside of Guardian Spirit cheese like on SK) really are mediocre raid healers with little to no purpose compared to the 3 meta healers. A 30 second glance at raid representation would prove that point. Here is the representation of RDruids on the last 4 Mythic bosses - 3 months into a raid tier.

    Council - 2.6% (Shaman 41%, Disc 28%, HPal 25%)
    Sludgefist - 5.8% (Shaman 36%, Disc 30%, HPal 25%)
    Stone Legion - 4.1% (Shaman 41%, HPal 29%, Disc 20%, HPriest! 6%)
    Sire - 2.5% (HPal 35%, Shaman 35%, Disc 27%)

    If you think RDruid are anything more than mediocre right now, you're delusional.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Th3Scourge View Post
    I get the meta perception but it really is a pointless discussion because 1. you can't change it unless you remove the ability to form groups and 2. it's not going to stop you timing a key.
    Meta perception has always been a thing. My point is this time around it feels far more extreme then ever and not a pointless discussion because some of us believe that action needs to be taken when it comes to class balance.

    And sure it won't stop you from timing a key, but some classes just have a far harder time getting invited. I don't think I've seen it this bad since TBC Heroics where if your class didn't have hard CC you weren't getting invited.

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