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  1. #1

    How do people feel about flying in previous expansions?

    I’d probably re-sub to the game for 6 months or so if they took all flight requirements out of the old expansions.

    If they actually added flight to the permanent no-fly zones of the past at the same time, I would probably stay subbed permanently (but one expansion behind). I realize that would never happen though, because Bliz would not want to pay for it and they seem to despise flight... but I’m throwing it out there.

    At the very least, I hope they remove the restriction on BfA when the next expansion comes out... if so, I might come back for a short stretch and do that expansion.

    Anyway, how do you feel about it?

  2. #2
    Flying is overrated. Its a crutch. Tie flying to completing quests or achievements.
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  3. #3
    I wouldn't hold your breath. They already removed rep requirements, I don't see them making any further concessions, past expansions are now optional content that doesn't require flying.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by WernerCD View Post
    Flying is overrated. Its a crutch. Tie flying to completing quests or achievements.
    I come at that from the other angle. When I played, one of my favorite things was flying while questing (with a ton of professions and pet battles thrown in). I had dungeons and PvP to fall back on when I occasionally got bored.

    It would be cool to get back to that, even if it were just in old content.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Phayde View Post
    I wouldn't hold your breath. They already removed rep requirements, I don't see them making any further concessions, past expansions are now optional content that doesn't require flying.
    I am guessing that they might unlock BfA when the next expansion hits. Then move the SL into the same status, where you need to complete the requirements in order to fly.

    If so, cool, if not, I can wait. I’ve waited this long, so a few more years won’t mean much in the grand scheme of things.
    Last edited by Wingspan; 2021-02-21 at 02:49 AM.

  5. #5
    Scarab Lord Alraml's Avatar
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    Personally i've never been a fan of flying.

    The issue I have with it is that they don't really design zones based around it

    Storm Peaks and Icecrown had some interesting interaction with it but the past few expansions the zones feel smaller and flying just feels a bit redundant

  6. #6
    The Undying Gehco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wingspan View Post
    I’d probably re-sub to the game for 6 months or so if they took all flight requirements out of the old expansions.

    If they actually added flight to the permanent no-fly zones of the past at the same time, I would probably stay subbed permanently (but one expansion behind). I realize that would never happen though, because Bliz would not want to pay for it and they seem to despise flight... but I’m throwing it out there.

    At the very least, I hope they remove the restriction on BfA when the next expansion comes out... if so, I might come back for a short stretch and do that expansion.

    Anyway, how do you feel about it?
    Flight is a luxury and should be treated as such. Zones should be designed for ground travel, actually fleshed out zones, and not just flat land like some people want because they can't navigate. Flight should be rewarded for playing the game, I've always been a fan of Pathfinder because you actually earn your flight instead of purchasing it.

    Flight should be unlocked by now for Eversong/Silvermoon, Azuremyst Isles/Exodar, Timeless Isles and Argus.
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  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Gehco View Post
    Flight is a luxury and should be treated as such. Zones should be designed for ground travel, actually fleshed out zones, and not just flat land like some people want because they can't navigate. Flight should be rewarded for playing the game, I've always been a fan of Pathfinder because you actually earn your flight instead of purchasing it.

    Flight should be unlocked by now for Eversong/Silvermoon, Azuremyst Isles/Exodar, Timeless Isles and Argus.

    I partially disagree but accept that it’s probably never going to change for new material. And that’s fine. I will just never take part in any new material... since my last new expansion purchase was MoP, no huge loss.

    I would probably return if they created some sort of consistent policy on older material though. And if I could trust that they would unblock expansions on a regular basis (maybe 1 or 2 expansions behind the current one) then I might return for good... just never bothering with the flight gated expansions.
    Last edited by Wingspan; 2021-02-21 at 01:08 PM.

  8. #8
    The best flying expansion was Cata

    Right now they use gated flying to make people play longer so they can meet their MAU KPI
    1. Play at launch to unlock flying without getting flying on main
    2. Postpone leveling alts or unsubscribe until flying is unlocked
    3. Continue/Resubscribe to level alts

    P.S. People who level alts before flying are a minority.
    All right, gentlemen, let's review. The year is 2021 - that's two-zero-two-one, as in the 21st Century's perfect vision - and I am sorry to say the world has become a pussy-whipped, Brady Bunch version of itself, run by a bunch of masked sissies.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    The best flying expansion was Cata

    Right now they use gated flying to make people play longer so they can meet their MAU KPI
    1. Play at launch to unlock flying without getting flying on main
    2. Postpone leveling alts or unsubscribe until flying is unlocked
    3. Continue/Resubscribe to level alts

    P.S. People who level alts before flying are a minority.

    Yeah, Cata flight was fantastic. I loved it so much that I slowly pulled together Epic Flying for all of my characters (10-12... can’t remember exactly how many). I did that specifically for the benefits of flying while questing.

    I was a bit irritated when MoP went back to level capping and charging a lot more for it, because I was gold-poor by that point, but I lived with it. When they announced the changes that were coming in WoD though, the spouse and I broke an 8 year run on the game and left.

  10. #10
    I think that flying should have stayed as a TBC Only-Feature.

  11. #11
    Flying isnt really healthy for the game though, it can't be because there is no inherent downside to it like with running or ground mounts. For flying to return to the game as something other than essentially cheat mode movement it needs more restrictions that make using it an actual choice you have to consider.

    Consider for a moment movement in a sndbox game like GTA. Flying is not inherently a better option than say, driving because of both the scarcity of flying vehicles, the inability ot take off from just anywhere, as well as it being far too fast and hard to manouver to get to specific areas.
    In WoW there is no such inherent downside. You simply mount up, and fly over enemies in such a way that they cannot hit you or interract with you in any way. It is also far faster than any other mode of travel, so it devalues other means of transport.

    because of these problems flying doesnt elevate the game, it makes it worse. What is the point of creative means of navigating hte landscape or enviromental challenges when you can simply fly past them.
    A point I have made before are the PvP towers in Legion. Each one worked as a mini-challenge. Get to the top of the tower and kill the enemy. Without flying there are many ways you can approach the problem. Stealting, gliding over, feign death. But with flying there is an overwhelmingly easy and efficient way ot get to the top, simply mount up and bypass all the challenge.
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  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    Flying isnt really healthy for the game though, it can't be because there is no inherent downside to it like with running or ground mounts. For flying to return to the game as something other than essentially cheat mode movement it needs more restrictions that make using it an actual choice you have to consider.

    Consider for a moment movement in a sndbox game like GTA. Flying is not inherently a better option than say, driving because of both the scarcity of flying vehicles, the inability ot take off from just anywhere, as well as it being far too fast and hard to manouver to get to specific areas.
    In WoW there is no such inherent downside. You simply mount up, and fly over enemies in such a way that they cannot hit you or interract with you in any way. It is also far faster than any other mode of travel, so it devalues other means of transport.

    because of these problems flying doesnt elevate the game, it makes it worse. What is the point of creative means of navigating hte landscape or enviromental challenges when you can simply fly past them.
    A point I have made before are the PvP towers in Legion. Each one worked as a mini-challenge. Get to the top of the tower and kill the enemy. Without flying there are many ways you can approach the problem. Stealting, gliding over, feign death. But with flying there is an overwhelmingly easy and efficient way ot get to the top, simply mount up and bypass all the challenge.

    I agree that there are certain areas where flight should never be allowed (dungeons, raids, battlegrounds) but flight really opened up the questing world for me and made it feel much more dynamic.

    For the purposes of avoiding anything non-player, Stealth is just as effective and in some cases superior to flight. It was boring to me though.

    All of that said, I am not asking for changes to new content... just the old stuff, where I would guess that very few people are playing anyway. I could probably be happy enough to just stay perpetually an expansion or two behind everyone else (as long as I knew it would be treated consistently by Bliz).
    Last edited by Wingspan; 2021-02-21 at 02:17 PM.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Wingspan View Post
    I agree that there are certain areas where flight should never be allowed (dungeons, raids, battlegrounds) but flight really opened up the questing world for me and made it feel much more dynamic.

    For the purposes of avoiding anything non-player, Stealth is just as effective and in some cases superior to flight. It was boring to me though.

    All of that said, I am not asking for changes to new content... just the old stuff, where I would guess that very few people are playing anyway. I could probably be happy enough to just stay perpetually an expansion or two behind everyone else (as long as I knew it would be treated consistently by Bliz).
    Consider for a moment why flying is not in Battlegrounds and such. The same reasons to not have flying in PvP exists in PvE too. It undercuts challenge by removing the navigtion aspect, the idea of being hindered does not exist when flying unlike with ground mounts.

    I do see the argument for allowing flying in trivial content though. I don't really agree with it, but I guess that being able to fly directly from Stormwind to Karazhan is not terribly different from being able to use a ground mount to go there when you are at max level.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quickly as well. The problem with comparing Stealth ot Flying is that Flying is an almost incomparably better option. You avoid enemies, but you also move 4 times as fast, don't have to consider obstacles, and most importantly is available to everyone which further cheapens Stealth as an option when it was meant to be a unique ability to select classes.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    Consider for a moment why flying is not in Battlegrounds and such. The same reasons to not have flying in PvP exists in PvE too.
    No, it doesn't. There's no challenge to undercut. The open-world is not a structured instanced content that needs to be navigated in a specific order. It's not a battleground and it's not a dungeon.

    The only difference between a ground mount and a flying mount - is the speed of traversal from A to B, and the amount of annoyance presented by terrain.
    All right, gentlemen, let's review. The year is 2021 - that's two-zero-two-one, as in the 21st Century's perfect vision - and I am sorry to say the world has become a pussy-whipped, Brady Bunch version of itself, run by a bunch of masked sissies.

  15. #15
    Once they introduced flying to the game they couldnt really go back. I dont mind a pathfinder system were you gotta complete certain things to unlock flying, but I think they went to far in many cases with it. The requierments were to high in several cases.

    Completing the story/major questlines and maybe completing all quests in each zone would be enough to unlock flying. It sucks when they hide it behind rep(reach revered/exalted) and make us wait 1+ year for it for no apparent reason.

    Give us a pathfinder with set criteria and let us unlock it quickly as we want.

  16. #16
    The way they are doing flying in shadowlands seems fine. I would rather it be unlocked as soon as we hit max level but whatever.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    Consider for a moment why flying is not in Battlegrounds and such. The same reasons to not have flying in PvP exists in PvE too. It undercuts challenge by removing the navigtion aspect, the idea of being hindered does not exist when flying unlike with ground mounts.

    I do see the argument for allowing flying in trivial content though. I don't really agree with it, but I guess that being able to fly directly from Stormwind to Karazhan is not terribly different from being able to use a ground mount to go there when you are at max level.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quickly as well. The problem with comparing Stealth ot Flying is that Flying is an almost incomparably better option. You avoid enemies, but you also move 4 times as fast, don't have to consider obstacles, and most importantly is available to everyone which further cheapens Stealth as an option when it was meant to be a unique ability to select classes.

    If you are not in PvP and have access to Stealth, you are effectively unhindered. It’s been a long time since I played but Stealth-detecting mobs were pretty rare... particularly after Vanilla. The only barrier when Stealthed in PvE was generally the slog through time. And Stealth works even in places where Flight never has and never will (nearly anywhere) so it is VASTLY superior to Flight in those cases.

    I understand the general debate against flight but most of it boils down to what people play for. If something you think is important is affected, then you won’t like it. But that does not mean flight is inherently bad, because people find different things to be important.

    That’s a bigger issue that will never be solved though. I would just like the old stuff consistently unblocked, then I would probably return to the part of the game that was most important to me.
    Last edited by Wingspan; 2021-02-21 at 03:10 PM.

  18. #18
    If your decision to sub/unsub relies that much on flying then you should really consider other games.

    Flying ... no flying ... it's still easy to navigate the world. Sure it's not as mindless but whatever ...

  19. #19
    one of teh biggest problems with this game are the players... so many people who want to impose their subjective preferences on others...

    In the case of flying, allowing people to fly does not stop you from enjoying the game without flying since you can always opt out of flying. where as removing flying deprives many players of an aspect that they enjoy.

  20. #20
    I have mixed feelings about Pathfinder. I played WoD and Legion from launch, so I got Pathfinder around the same time everyone else did. And I have to admit, it did make getting flying feel like something special. Levelling later alts who could fly during the levelling process did trivialise some aspects of it, though that may also be because I already knew the mechanics and the quests.

    I then stopped playing half-way through Legion, and only came back in summer 2020, when BfA was nearing the end of its cycle. And there, Pathfinder felt like a huge limitation, because I was so far behind. All the content patches had been released, so there was an overwhelming amount of content, along with new mechanics, and it just felt like this huge mountain of a chore to get flying, and get myself viable for raiding, and get my professions levelled, etc. The flightmasters whistle did help, though. But even with that, having to use ground mounts when everybody around me was already flying wasn't enjoyable.

    What I'm trying to say is...keep Pathfinder, if you must. But for the love of [deity of choice], stick in a catch-up mechanic for the people who come in later during the expansion.

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